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Cold engine problems


Kengjers

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800 X Crossrunner 2015
I have Challenges  while driving before the bike engine gets warm. If i drive emediatly after start, the engine cheats (even on a flat road) If I use the clutch to get about 3-5000 turns its okay.   I have to  let the bike stand for 2-3 minutes on idle before I drive.   I do not want that high  RPM at the cold engine while riding. The outside temp does not have much to do with it, its pretty the same while cold engine starts in 20 degrees or 0 degrees celsius.
Im using the bike to work every day, and its not nice starting it and have to wait  a while when it  warms up. It occurs espesially when driving on low RPM uphill. (Not more than 3-4 degree angle) My last bike was a 86 mod VFR 750F twenty year ago, I cant remember these kind of problems on this old bike. The IDLE seeams okay and it runs nice. it seems that the automatic chocke are okay, it runs with a higer RPM when cold. After 2-3 min. it goes a bit down on the RPM
Any sugestions? is this normal for such new bike? Pease advice :-)
 

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Normal I'm afraid.

 

At work, we have a 20mph limit. Leaving work when the bike is cold, idling along in 2nd it hits about 18mph but is a little jittery. In 3rd, it's 23mph and smooth, but the coppers have speed guns and it's an instant ban so it's a bit of a pain but I control it using the rear brake.

 

Cold VFR's have been horrible since the introduction of the wax idle unit.

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Engineers who design our engines and the manufactures who build our
engines agree the most wear that happens in our engines during start
up and before warm up... its because our oil is too thick to properly
lubricate our engines so thats why I recommend warming the engine at
least 150ºF up to 212ºF before an owner selects first gear... only at
operating temp of 212º is our oil at its proper viscosity of 10psi
(orange number)...

 


RC45Coolant203FOil10.JPG
 

 

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29 minutes ago, BusyLittleShop said:

Engineers who design our engines and the manufactures who build our
engines agree the most wear that happens in our engines during start
up and before warm up... its because our oil is too thick to properly
lubricate our engines so thats why I recommend warming the engine at
least 150ºF up to 212ºF before an owner selects first gear... only at
operating temp of 212º is our oil at its proper viscosity of 10psi
(orange number)...

Thanks BLS. I've been waiting until the engine temp got to ~ 120F then riding below 4,000 rpm until it gets to 150F. After your point, I plan to wait until 150f+ to ride off.

Even then it will be low revs until 200F+.

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If you see *continuous* temps higher than 220ºF or below 180ºF then
trouble shooting is in order: the logical order of items to trouble shoot are:

 

1)Faulty radiator cap... system should hold 1.1 pressure ratio...
2)Insufficient coolant...
3)Passages blocked in the radiator, hose or water jacket...
4)Air in the system...
5)Thermostat stuck closed...
6)Faulty temp meter or thermo sensor...
7)Faulty fan...
8)Faulty fan switch...

 

Engine temps below 180ºF or 82ºC is an problem... it means that the
moisture produced during combustion is not getting hot enough to
evaporate out the pipe as steam... instead that moisture will migrate
to the oil and produce a milky white contamination...

Note normal by products of combustion is water... . Every gallon of gas
creates roughly 8 pounds of water vapor... we all have witnessed water
escaping out of tail pipes on cold mornings...

The sequence of events to trouble shoot are:

 

1)Faulty temp meter...
2)Thermostat stuck open...
3)Faulty fan switch... (stuck on)

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  • 2 weeks later...
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On 17 January 2018 at 12:41 AM, Kengjers said:


800 X Crossrunner 2015
I have Challenges  while driving before the bike engine gets warm. If i drive emediatly after start, the engine cheats (even on a flat road) If I use the clutch to get about 3-5000 turns its okay.   I have to  let the bike stand for 2-3 minutes on idle before I drive.   I do not want that high  RPM at the cold engine while riding. The outside temp does not have much to do with it, its pretty the same while cold engine starts in 20 degrees or 0 degrees celsius.
Im using the bike to work every day, and its not nice starting it and have to wait  a while when it  warms up. It occurs espesially when driving on low RPM uphill. (Not more than 3-4 degree angle) My last bike was a 86 mod VFR 750F twenty year ago, I cant remember these kind of problems on this old bike. The IDLE seeams okay and it runs nice. it seems that the automatic chocke are okay, it runs with a higer RPM when cold. After 2-3 min. it goes a bit down on the RPM
Any sugestions? is this normal for such new bike? Pease advice :-)
 

Hi Kengjiers.

I can assure you this is a similar issue the 8gen VFR's and wasn't present on the previous 6gens. See the topic "8G first gear restriction?" On Page 10 of the 8gen VFR forum.

The bike simply does not respond well to normal throttle opening and is especially noticeable when going up an incline, the bike will then perform perfectly once it's near normal operating temp. Has nothing to do with VTEC or trying to thrash the bike with a cold engine! As some have previously suggested!

Cheers.

Grum

 

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Turn motor over first. Then put on riding gear. Quick safety check tyres, chain, etc. Make sure you've got your wallet, mobile and keys. Kiss your wife, girlfriend, lover goodbye. By then the bike's warm enough.

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12 hours ago, Auspanglish said:

Turn motor over first. Then put on riding gear. Quick safety check tyres, chain, etc. Make sure you've got your wallet, mobile and keys. Kiss your wife, girlfriend, lover goodbye. By then the bike's warm enough.

What a GREAT suggestion Auspanglish, gonna give that a go!:unsure:

Cheers.

Grum

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Sorry, maybe I was stating the obvious. Didn't mean to offend.

 

So it takes longer than that to stop misbehaving? Disappointing to say the least.

 

Fuel injected bikes do tend to be much jerkier compared to carbureted ones.

 

Otherwise maybe the wax idle unit has air trapped in the coolant line?

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  • 3 weeks later...
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On 1/16/2018 at 1:41 PM, Kengjers said:


800 X Crossrunner 2015
I have Challenges  while driving before the bike engine gets warm. If i drive emediatly after start, the engine cheats (even on a flat road) If I use the clutch to get about 3-5000 turns its okay.   I have to  let the bike stand for 2-3 minutes on idle before I drive.   I do not want that high  RPM at the cold engine while riding. The outside temp does not have much to do with it, its pretty the same while cold engine starts in 20 degrees or 0 degrees celsius.
Im using the bike to work every day, and its not nice starting it and have to wait  a while when it  warms up. It occurs espesially when driving on low RPM uphill. (Not more than 3-4 degree angle) My last bike was a 86 mod VFR 750F twenty year ago, I cant remember these kind of problems on this old bike. The IDLE seeams okay and it runs nice. it seems that the automatic chocke are okay, it runs with a higer RPM when cold. After 2-3 min. it goes a bit down on the RPM
Any sugestions? is this normal for such new bike? Pease advice :-)
 

I sympathise, Kengjers.  I bought a new Crossrunner in October, and it's my first experience with a fuel injected bike.  It's taking a while to get used to everything being pretty much automatic during the start cycle, but I don't worry too much about leaving the engine to warm up for a few minutes as it's always good to get the oil pumping and circulating!  Oh, and I still have my '91 VFR750FM in the garage if I get nostalgic for carburettors :-)

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On 1/29/2018 at 4:55 PM, Auspanglish said:

Fuel injected bikes do tend to be much jerkier compared to carbureted ones.

 

 

Negative... VFR Fuel Injection is not jerky... by design all FI bikes
are instantaneous which amplifies any lack of smoothness on the riders
technique... Fuel Injection is not only sensitive what you do but how
you do it to... mechanical tips to help a rider's smoothness are:

 

1) remove unwanted throttle slack
2) adjust chain slack at the absolute minimum prescribe by Honda...

 

 

 

VFR800FuelInjection1.JPG

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Negative... VFR Fuel Injection is not jerky... by design all FI bikes

are instantaneous which amplifies any lack of smoothness on the riders

technique... Fuel Injection is not only sensitive what you do but how

you do it to... mechanical tips to help a rider's smoothness are:

 

1) remove unwanted throttle slack

2) adjust chain slack at the absolute minimum prescribe by Honda...

 

 

 

VFR800FuelInjection1.thumb.JPG.8118ed68ba9166daf1046e9c8ed089fc.JPG

 

Well I don't want to argue over semantics but saying fuel injected bikes are more instantaneous to rider input is just explaining why the riding experience is jerkier. Also if we take the polar opposite viewpoint and say that carburetted bikes are less instantaneous to rider input that's equivalent to their being some delay to rider input which translates as a smoother riding experience in terms of throttle usage or behaviour. You may be right but I wasn't wrong.

 

Edited to remove a possibly offensive bit, I piqued, and I apologize. I'll admit it. Hindsight's 20:20.

 

 

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First of all I've frequently started my bikes in cold weather. Below freezing temps. They do not always start on the first try after sitting for months. But nearly always by the second or third try. And I have not always winterized them. Even leaving ethanal in the tank. Back then I'd start it every month. Now I'm more religeous about it. Full tank, non-ethanal gas and a stablizer added. 

As for throttle response, I've found all my VFRs (5) difficult to ride slow, below ~ 8 mph. Even the owner manual recommends feathering the clutch below 8 mph. 

As I've aged my hands, arm and general body has become less steady. This has required a more focused approach to throttle control for me. I'm "afraid of" and concerned that a random, unexpected "twitch" could embarrass me. So I'd have to agree they are "twitchy". But the CAN be ridden smoothly when properly tuned and focused attention is applied. So it is all on the rider's skill.  IMHO

My current ride came with a Power Commander II and a Staintune high-mount "silencer". That was really smooth. I'd pull from steadily from 1,700 rpm. (I sold them for cleaner air and less hearing damage. But holy socks! It did sound fabulous.) Not twitchy at all. Now I'm back to OEM. 

Yesterday I rode my machine to the local Honda shop. (Family owned forever. I remember buying my first helmet from them in 1969. Most of the family raced dirt bikes.) It was for major maintenance. I decided, for the first time on any of my bikes, to check the starter valves for possible sync-ing. They had never done it to a fuel injected bike. After looking it up on the web and discussing it they likened it to sync-ing carbs. I'll pick up the bike when they are done.  When I got home I checked out the factory service manual for the proceedure. It looks do-able with a manonomer but I don't have one. I may try to do it myself next time. 

I'm quite curious to see if that makes any difference in the throttling.

But I am constantly trying to be smooth on the throttle and make it subconcious.

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Of course you adapt and habituate. That's all part of the process. Still just about everyone I know going from carburetors to injection perceives the experience as jerkier. Whatever the mechanism behind it. At first, that's the way it feels and sometimes even later you realize how sensitive they are to input.

 

Same difference is all I'm saying.

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Your welcome to use it but the word "jerky" is a negative term to
the Honda engineers who labored long and hard and spent millions of
yen to give us what we have grown to love namely instantaneous FI
throttle response... they will tell you that its up to the rider to
work on their technique...

 

Makota san... HRC engineer and father of the VTEC VFR...

gallery_3131_5511_17541.jpg

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20 hours ago, BusyLittleShop said:

Honda engineers who labored long and hard and spent millions of
yen to give us what we have grown to love namely instantaneous FI
throttle response... they will tell you that its up to the rider to
work on their technique...

 

This is one of the few times I find myself in disagreement with BLS. My '09 VTec VFR800 has an annoying abrupt response going from zero to part throttle. This was obvious from the first ride, bought new in '11. In contrast, throttle response on my '98 and '99 5-Gen were near identical to my '91 VFR750.

 

Otoh, the VTec transition has never bothered me, though I grant that it may have been more pronounced on earlier 6-Gens.

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