Replace CCT, Fuel Filter, Fuel Pump, etc?

[Urbanengineer]

Hello again everyone. 

 

Im looking at some other things that may need replacing on the VFR and I need VFR owners opinions. 

 

Should i I replace the fuel filter and/or the fuel pump?

 

On my 2008 Kawasaki Versys the fuel pump failed on my with only about 22k miles on the bike. It left me stranded in cold weather. It was pretty scary. I’ve now thought about replacing the fuel pump and filter prematurely. Do VFR’s have any problems with the fuel sending situation?

 

Cam Chain Tensioners.

 

Do these get replaced at a certain time? I hear they “last” 50k miles. I’m at 43k miles right now. If you do need to replace it, do VFR owners go manual or do you just buy the OE type tensioners?

 

I have a pretty nasty leak from my rear CCT where the owners must’ve done a valve adjustment and not replaced the CCT gasket. It leaks everywhere! The whole right side of the engine looks like crap. 

 

Thanks again ahead of time folks. This V4 motor is very neat and different for me. 

[Dutchy]

Welcome to VFRD from across the pond 

 

 

 

 

As an engineer, you must have heard the "if it ain't broke...." adage....

 

 

I'd spend money on a gasket and a camera; so you can post a picture of your bike here.... 

[Urbanengineer]

Haha I love it. Sounds good mate. I’ll order me a gasket and get this bike to Honda for the front harness fix. 

[Sweeper]

There is good info on cct replacement for the vfr800 on YouTube.


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[Grum]

Hi Urbanengineer.

 

With 43k miles wouldn't worry about fuel filter or pump - unless you suspected a pick up of some very dirty fuel. No known issue with fuel sender that I know of.

 

Don't worry about the CCT's they will definetly let you know when they need replacing - an audible clatter develops particularly at around idle speed just replace the noisey one as soon as you can once you get the clatter, no need to panic.

 

Would only ever use the OEM CCT's a manual tensioner will create the nasty risk of either under or over tensioning the chain. There is a fine line between an under or over tensioned timing chain - not worth the risk IMO.

 

With your leaky CCT Are you saying they used an old gasket OR is the Gasket missing? It's a thin metalic gasket Part No. 14523-MCW-003. Otherwise make sure the two mounting bolts are tight and especially the bolt at the end of the CCT this should have a sealing washer and needs to be quite tight or oil will leak from this point.

 

Hope this helps.

Cheers

[Rogue_Biker]

At 40k+ miles a few engine parts on your VFR have probably approached their service lives, and they can begin to fail at any time.  Here's my own list I feel should be carefully monitored and/or replaced:

 

1.  Stator - Some have gone further than 50k miles but anything over 40k is probably a gift.  Save yourself from getting stranded.  Replace ASAP.

2.  CCT - Like others have said, if you begin to hear abnormal noises emanating from the cam chain, replace with new OEM parts right away.  Ask questions later.

3.  Water Pump - Monitor for any weeping or slight leaks.  Monitor reservoir level.  If it starts to leak even if only a little, replace with new right way. 

4.  Thermostat - Don't wait until it fails and your bike overheats or runs overly rich for prolonged periods from the Thermostat being stuck open.  Just replace.

5.  Clutch - If it starts to rattle, replace right away.

6.  Clean Fuel Injectors - requires removing each injector but it's easy to do.  Even if your bike appears to be running fine, have them cleaned.  Because these get dirty more than you know, and when the begin to fail your bike will run like crap.  I've been there done that.

7.  Clean Throttle bodies/linkages - See comments below.

8.  Replace Throttle Body Air Seal Boots - See comments below.

9.  Synchronize the Starter Valves - After all the above is done do this one last.  

 

With the exception of the clutch, items 1-4, 6-8, can be done in one service job and in fact I recommend you do this all at once.  It's so much easier to replace the front CCT and the Stator when the throttle bodies are off the bike.  The Thermostat can only be replaced when the Throttle Bodies are removed.  Same with the Throttle Body Air Seal Boots.  Most of the jobs above requires draining the coolant.  If you do it all at once you only drain the coolant ONCE!  Once you have the Throttle Bodies removed, you can easily clean the linkages and the bodies themselves.

 

You do all that and your VFR will run soooooo much smoother!  Remember, the newest 6th Generation for the US market is now 9 years old.  While the oldest 6th Gen is now 16 years old!  Honda's are reliable and the VFR800 is one of their most reliable model they make.  But just like everything, they all have service lives.  Once past that point, you will get failures.

 

 

[Urbanengineer]

Thanks for the reply. 

 

At 40k+ miles a few engine parts on your VFR have probably approached their service lives, and they can begin to fail at any time.  Here's my own list I feel should be carefully monitored and/or replaced:

 

1.  Stator - Some have gone further than 50k miles but anything over 40k is probably a gift.  Save yourself from getting stranded.  Replace ASAP.

 

will look into it, not sure if the PO did the replacement but he didn’t do the front wiring harness recall. How does one check stator quality other than the three resistance checks?

 

2.  CCT - Like others have said, if you begin to hear abnormal noises emanating from the cam chain, replace with new OEM parts right away.  Ask questions later.

 

Oem is similarly priced. Good to know. 

 

3.  Water Pump - Monitor for any weeping or slight leaks.  Monitor reservoir level.  If it starts to leak even if only a little, replace with new right way. 

 

The hoses were old and crusty so I ordered some better ones! Should I pull apart the water pump to inspect? It doesn’t leak from the pump gasket but the hoses were leaking. 

 

4.  Thermostat - Don't wait until it fails and your bike overheats or runs overly rich for prolonged periods from the Thermostat being stuck open.  Just replace.

 

Will order. About to dive into the throttle bodies later. 

 

5.  Clutch - If it starts to rattle, replace right away.

 

Non issue right now. Thanks. 

 

6.  Clean Fuel Injectors - requires removing each injector but it's easy to do.  Even if your bike appears to be running fine, have them cleaned.  Because these get dirty more than you know, and when the begin to fail your bike will run like crap.  I've been there done that.

 

its so cheap to get done through a ship and clean service I’d be silly not to. Do you have a recommendation?

 

7.  Clean Throttle bodies/linkages - See comments below.

 

It’s pretty dusty. Will do. 

 

8.  Replace Throttle Body Air Seal Boots - See comments below.

 

Not sure what this is. I’ll have to look it up. 

 

9.  Synchronize the Starter Valves - After all the above is done do this one last.

 

yeah, I have a 4 carb synchronizer from an old bike and I assume this would fit the same purpose. 

 

 

Thanks for your reply. This bike seems to have a lot of little issues!

[airwalk]

Re:#1, tedious & inconclusive checks can be done, more than you ever

wanted to know can be found under "electrical" section of this site

mount a voltmeter, keep monitoring system output

too low consistently, components or/& connections(rr,stator,etc.)

the really frustrating ones though are intermittent, output is adequate until engine @operating temp

improving wiring (vfrness) not a bad idea..

 

[Urbanengineer]

It has some second fuse as installed by the dealer. 

 

I have a voltmeter to install off of switched power and mount on the dash. I think I’ll steal power from the lights or something. Just finished rebuilding the forks. 

[Rogue_Biker]

I don't know how to check stator resistance other than what's described in the Service Manual.  I didn't bother with it and I just replaced mine at 44k miles.  When I took the old one out it was at the cusp of burning off the protective coating around the stator winding.  So it was just a matter of time before it went out on me.  

 

Likewise with the water pump.  Service Manual says if it begins to leak, replace the whole unit.  I do think you can replace the gasket in between the two halves of the pump, as well as the O-ring, and possibly extend its life some more.  But mine is 10 years old so I'm about to replace mine...and it just started a very slow leak.  A new water pump at 10 years is cheap.

In your case, since you are going to replace the thermostat, which requires draining the coolant, it would be a good time to replace the water pump, or at least replace those gaskets/Orings.  It will save you time and money for the coolant.  I learned this the hard way.  But the water pump is $130 so it may be worth it to wait maybe when it does leak on you.  

 

I only had my fuel injectors cleaned by someone local, thanks to another member who did the legwork for me Duc2V4.  It cost $100 for the service.

 

When you clean your Throttle Body, you will have to pull it off the air seal boots.  There is a high risk these are already crusty and old and will leak air after you put everything back.  If you get a leak, your bike will have a run away idle/hanging idle.  I had to deal with this recently and it was a royal PITA and the bike wasn't safe to ride.  The air seal boots are cheap brand new from Honda.  Do yourself and a favor and replace them if you're already going to go digging around to replace the thermostat.  

 

A carb sync tool works.  Make sure you plug the PAIR and Flapper Valve vacuum hose, and connect the vacuum hose and wire connector to the MAP sensor before you synchronize your Starter Valves.  Again, I learned all this the hard way.  I need to stop second guessing the Service Manual!

 

If I knew then what I know now, I would have done all of the above at once.  This way I would have only had to drain the coolant once, disconnect all those hoses once, remove the left and right fairings once.  And have all the little OEM parts available in one sitting.  Because I did them peacemeal, my bike sat for long periods waiting for parts, and I had to buy new coolant 3x!!

 

[Urbanengineer]

Thanks again for the detail.

 

Almost done with my bike, except the rear brake is sticking a bit and it’s really getting on my nerves. Off to winter storage I suppose / time to deal with it in the spring! Thermostat swap was easy. Intake boots were surprisingly like new and pliable so I’m not gonna replace them at this time. 

[Rogue_Biker]

Yeah my intake boots were in good shape also.  But I've seen pictures of others.....

 

Currently replacing my clutch.  The original OEM one from 2007 developed a rumbling noise at cold idle.  I also began to notice a "softness" in the clutch engagement that wasn't there many thousands of miles ago.

[Urbanengineer]

Do you have a recommendation on working on the brake calipers and bleeding the brakes @Rogue_Biker? The guides I saw so far didn't work for me :(.

[Rogue_Biker]

Bleeding the brakes on a linked brake VFR800 is different from most regular bikes.  

 

It MUST be done in a specific order.  If not you will end up with an incomplete job.  I highly recommend you download a service manual online for free if you haven't already.  I'm not the expert at it but here it is in a nutshell.  Prepare yourself....LOL!

 

1)  Bleed the right front brake caliper first.

2) Then bleed the left one.

3)  But the left one also has a separate circuit that is connected to the rear Master Cylinder and that one is bled differently, which I believe is done by pushing the whole caliper up against its hydraulic cylinder (refer to Service Manual because I forgot how I did mine).  You also must bleed this circuit.

4  Now bleed the center brake fluid valve located on the right-mid section of the bike.  Again, refer to Service Manual to find this valve.

5) Remove rear wheel

6) Unbolt rear brake caliper and position it on the brake rotor with the bleed nipple facing up, and bleed the fluid.

 

To get rid of ALL air bubbles, you just use the old school way of loosening the bleed valve while someone squeezes the brake lever/pedal until it goes to the end of its travel.  Hold it there, while you tighten the bleed valve.  Then, pump the lever/pedal multiple times quickly, then hold it, while someone loosens the bleed valve to let air out of the line.  Repeat until you get a firm brake feel.  Then tighten the bleed valve.

 

The above is not complete and it's too detailed for me to list without looking at a Service manual.  But it is crucial that the order and the method in which you do it is per the Service Manual.  If you don't do it right, you will end up with spongy brake feel.  I also had to learn this the hard way.  Just be patient and know that bleeding the brake fluid on a linked braked VFR800 will take 3x as long as a standard bike.

 

 

[Duc2V4]

Just to be clear, the front brake bleed is independent of the “linked” part of the system. The only part of the front that creates the link is the secondary master cylinder. This is actually part of the rear brake system and is unaffected by what you do at the front.

 

As mentioned, the Honda Service manual describes not only how to bleed the system but how it functions. Once you see how it operates, understanding the bleed process is clearer. Although having an extra body to help pump and hold the brake lever/SMC makes it much easier, it can be done solo but is NOT an easy task. Speed bleeders though, do make it a lot easier when doing the job solo.

[Urbanengineer]

I think my mistake was not having a buddy while working on the rear caliper. I felt like the mighty vac was extracting nothing. I need to set my frustration aside and get a buddy to try this again with. Worst case I can ride it to the dealer and have them do it :). 

 

@Rogue_Biker the way you just wrote to bleed the brakes and the FSM method are not even close to the same. I did it the FSM way but by my self - no speed bleeders. Probably a VFR  brake job rookie mistake. I’ll have to try it again. 

 

I understand the prop valve actuated rear brake MC activates the center MC of the rear brake caliper.

 

The pedal brake activates the outer two rear brake caliper pistons  AND activates the front center left caliper piston. I think my orientation of the green valve I posted about in another thread is incorrectly routed. I wonder if that damned ball spring thing is supposed to block the fluid exchange passage!!!? I wish someone would open up their left front sliding bracket rear prop valve Mc banjo bolt mount point... if that made any sense HA!

[Duc2V4]

49 minutes ago, Urbanengineer said:

I think my mistake was not having a buddy while working on the rear caliper. I felt like the mighty vac was extracting nothing. I need to set my frustration aside and get a buddy to try this again with. Worst case I can ride it to the dealer and have them do it :). 

 

@Rogue_Biker the way you just wrote to bleed the brakes and the FSM method are not even close to the same. I did it the FSM way but by my self - no speed bleeders. Probably a VFR  brake job rookie mistake. I’ll have to try it again. 

 

I understand the prop valve actuated rear brake MC activates the center MC of the rear brake caliper.

 

The pedal brake activates the outer two rear brake caliper pistons  AND activates the front center left caliper piston. I think my orientation of the green valve I posted about in another thread is incorrectly routed. I wonder if that damned ball spring thing is supposed to block the fluid exchange passage!!!? I wish someone would open up their left front sliding bracket rear prop valve Mc banjo bolt mount point... if that made any sense HA!

I found that using the Mighty-Vac is only useful when filling empty lines and that once the lines are full, a normal bleed process is what works best. With speed bleeders, the Mighty-Vac doesn't work at all, you need to push the fluid through the lines still, as the check valve requires more pressure than you should be using with the Mighty-Vac.

 

Having done the bleed process many times, for both 5 and 6 Gens, I think I just become accustomed to the odd bleeding process. I also installed speed bleeders on all my bikes so it does make it a little easier when working solo.

[Urbanengineer]

1 hour ago, Duc2V4 said:

I found that using the Mighty-Vac is only useful when filling empty lines and that once the lines are full, a normal bleed process is what works best. With speed bleeders, the Mighty-Vac doesn't work at all, you need to push the fluid through the lines still, as the check valve requires more pressure than you should be using with the Mighty-Vac.

 

Having done the bleed process many times, for both 5 and 6 Gens, I think I just become accustomed to the odd bleeding process. I also installed speed bleeders on all my bikes so it does make it a little easier when working solo.

Damn, I guess this is ultimately the problem. Thanks for the help! I’ll try that. But it would be the cause for sticking calipers though, that’s my problem. 

[Rogue_Biker]

Yeah those Might Vacs are great for replacing fluid on standard bikes.  Not so much on the VFR, especially to bleed air out. Duc2v4 is the expert.  When he bled my brakes the pedal and lever were rock solid afterwards.  But I do remember we pumped the lever and pedal A LOT to get all the air out.