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Help me convince myself to buy an 8th gen


HumalogAddict

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Hey all. 

 

So after 70k km and 7 summers riding my beloved 6th gen I am leaning towards an 8th gen. I spent a lot of time wrenching the past two summers and I'm ready for something more reliable.

 

So anywho, I was hesitating between a low mileage 2009 and an 8th gen. I figured I could switch over my upgrades to the 2009 but the 8th gen was 5 years newer, easier to resell in the future if need be and had great reviews here and everywhere. I found a beautiful all stock 2014 deluxe with 10k km and was able to test ride it. I rrrreally wanted to love it but I was a little underwhelmed. It was a great ride with the vtec transition now being smooth as hell, much better/newer brakes and suspension but it didn't stir anything in my groin, something I think all bikes should do hahaha :D

 

The lower end power seemed weaker than on my 2004 and it didn't feel like it pulled as much. The whole bike almost felt like it was muzzled. Now it is important to state that it had the OEM can (vs the carbon leo Vince without DB killers on mine) and I changed my gearing to 16/45. Both the can and gearing really helped make the 6th gen the stallion I love to ride so is that really all that was? Am I just so used to my 2004 and so in tune with all of it's quirks and advantages that anything else feels weird?

 

So my question I guess is did you ex 6th geners instantly fall in love with the 8th gen or did you learn to love it? How much of a difference in the grin factor department did your upgrades make?

 

Thanks for the help in these difficult times :p

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12 minutes ago, HumalogAddict said:

Hey all. 

 

So after 70k km and 7 summers riding my beloved 6th gen I am leaning towards an 8th gen. I spent a lot of time wrenching the past two summers and I'm ready for something more reliable.

 

So anywho, I was hesitating between a low mileage 2009 and an 8th gen. I figured I could switch over my upgrades to the 2009 but the 8th gen was 5 years newer, easier to resell in the future if need be and had great reviews here and everywhere. I found a beautiful all stock 2014 deluxe with 10k km and was able to test ride it. I rrrreally wanted to love it but I was a little underwhelmed. It was a great ride with the vtec transition now being smooth as hell, much better/newer brakes and suspension but it didn't stir anything in my groin, something I think all bikes should do hahaha :D

 

The lower end power seemed weaker than on my 2004 and it didn't feel like it pulled as much. The whole bike almost felt like it was muzzled. Now it is important to state that it had the OEM can (vs the carbon leo Vince without DB killers on mine) and I changed my gearing to 16/45. Both the can and gearing really helped make the 6th gen the stallion I love to ride so is that really all that was? Am I just so used to my 2004 and so in tune with all of it's quirks and advantages that anything else feels weird?

 

So my question I guess is did you ex 6th geners instantly fall in love with the 8th gen or did you learn to love it? How much of a difference in the grin factor department did your upgrades make?

 

Thanks for the help in these difficult times :p

 

Generally I'd say it makes tons of sense to get the bike that's five years newer and has ABS, etc.  And you know that 10km is essentially just broken-in.

 

The difference in perceived low-end grunt has more to do with the gearing to which you've become accustomed.  Most aftermarket cans focus on increases in the upper RPM range.  The better ones (for example Akrapovič) for Honda's VTEC bikes also try to further smooth the transition.  Also, FYI, in my experience there was a consistent correlation between gas octane and low-end grunt.  So crap gas could have been a factor.  Maybe.  But I'm still betting on gearing.

 

I haven't felt the need to modify my bike at all except for adding my GPS receiver and my toll transponder.  Perhaps in a couple of weeks, I'll install a power socket for my heated gear.  I'm not a fan of aftermarket pipes and I don't wheelie the bike.  At least not intentionally.  My only gripe on the 8th gen is that the suspension is a bit toward the stiff side.

 

But by all means follow your penis.  ;-)

 

 

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Hey all. 
 
So after 70k km and 7 summers riding my beloved 6th gen I am leaning towards an 8th gen. I spent a lot of time wrenching the past two summers and I'm ready for something more reliable.
 
So anywho, I was hesitating between a low mileage 2009 and an 8th gen. I figured I could switch over my upgrades to the 2009 but the 8th gen was 5 years newer, easier to resell in the future if need be and had great reviews here and everywhere. I found a beautiful all stock 2014 deluxe with 10k km and was able to test ride it. I rrrreally wanted to love it but I was a little underwhelmed. It was a great ride with the vtec transition now being smooth as hell, much better/newer brakes and suspension but it didn't stir anything in my groin, something I think all bikes should do hahaha :D
 
The lower end power seemed weaker than on my 2004 and it didn't feel like it pulled as much. The whole bike almost felt like it was muzzled. Now it is important to state that it had the OEM can (vs the carbon leo Vince without DB killers on mine) and I changed my gearing to 16/45. Both the can and gearing really helped make the 6th gen the stallion I love to ride so is that really all that was? Am I just so used to my 2004 and so in tune with all of it's quirks and advantages that anything else feels weird?
 
So my question I guess is did you ex 6th geners instantly fall in love with the 8th gen or did you learn to love it? How much of a difference in the grin factor department did your upgrades make?
 
Thanks for the help in these difficult times
I had a 5th gen with Wolf Race exhaust that I loved (except for the styling). I bought my 2014 last year and first just appreciated how much more refined it was in every way. I too was slightly underwhelmed with the mid-range power while riding around town. I added a Delkevic slip-on which seemed to help a little (especially with the aural pleasure), but I didn't fully appreciate the bike until I did a 3 - day 800 mile ride with my buddies on great open secondary roads in the Catskills The 8th gen really shines when you push it in the upper rev range, and best of all I felt great at the end of each day, while my buddies were all looking like severe arthritis sufferers.

At $11k MSRP it may not be a great buy, but for $7k for the leftovers, I think it's the greatest deal in motorcycle history.

Sent from my SCH-I545 using Tapatalk

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8 hours ago, HumalogAddict said:

How much of a difference in the grin factor department did your upgrades make?

 

Thanks for the help in these difficult times :p

 

 

and the answer is...............................

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

:tongue:

 

IMG_0071.thumb.JPG.9bf89230aa8658a4175e7da83644d420.JPG

Sports Touring 2.0

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Wow - that second video is amazing! 

 

I don’t normally watch onboard racing vids because they are boring but this one is exceptional!

 

He starts off cautiously and all the sports bikes lead the way until about 4:00 when he starts scalping them one-by-one. By 6:00 he is starting to lap the field. At 07:55 you can hear a peg scraping (bike sits up quickly). 

 

Later on he he eases off the throttle (riding alone) and a few track bikes overtake him. Big mistake - he takes them all again. 

 

Just outstanding riding. Beats most riders on the brakes and corners. 

 

Sounds wonderful too. 

 

Who is this rider? Anyone on here? 

 

EDIT: Rider is a chap called Roger Lyle. Says he is running Bridgestone T30 Evos with 33psi front-and-back. Got that off the YouTube comments. 

 

Stray

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On 27/10/2017 at 2:33 AM, Rectaltronics said:

  And you know that 10km is essentially just broken-in.

 

 

But by all means follow your penis.  ;-)

 

 

On the contrary. 10k isn't even close to being run in. My Vtec didn't come good until 48,000 miles and I don't ride it gently. My 2015 model is now at 17,000 and is almost as quick as my Vtec now...

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On 28/10/2017 at 11:27 PM, Stray said:

Wow - that second video is amazing! 

 

I don’t normally watch onboard racing vids because they are boring but this one is exceptional!

 

He starts off cautiously and all the sports bikes lead the way until about 4:00 when he starts scalping them one-by-one. By 6:00 he is starting to lap the field. At 07:55 you can hear a peg scraping (bike sits up quickly). 

 

Later on he he eases off the throttle (riding alone) and a few track bikes overtake him. Big mistake - he takes them all again. 

 

Just outstanding riding. Beats most riders on the brakes and corners. 

 

Sounds wonderful too. 

 

Who is this rider? Anyone on here? 

 

EDIT: Rider is a chap called Roger Lyle. Says he is running Bridgestone T30 Evos with 33psi front-and-back. Got that off the YouTube comments. 

 

Stray

Always said 100bhp is enough if you know what you are doing.

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I can easily argue for or against the 8th Gen.

 

I came to this crossroads with my 2007 back in 2015 when I briefly considered selling my 2007 and getting a faster, more exciting bike.  However, at that time I wasn't thinking rationally.  When I calmed down enough to think it through, I really could not find a good-enough-for-me reason to part with my 2007 and buy a 2015 VFR800 (as beautiful as they are).  And when I was honest with myself and weighed all the pros and cons, I came to my own conclusion that the 8th Gen isn't much of an improvement over the 6th Gen.  In terms of power, and who among us aren't seduced by this, the 8th Gen has LESS on top.  The top end power is actually the one I was hoping for in the 8th Gen and instead of giving us more,  Honda took some away.  WTF!!  This was my tipping point to be honest.  So in the end, I came up with a better solution for me:  given what I was searching for (more power, better handling, lighter weight), I just went and bought a CBR600RR.  Viola!  I got everything I was looking for and then some!  I got "everything" because I kept my 2007 VFR800 and upgraded her suspension.  Now she is sufficiently sporty when I need her to be without sacrificing long distance comfort and day to day practicality.  And when I had the need for more speed, I just take the CBR.  Yes they have the same rear wheel horsepower, but the CBR is 130 lbs. lighter and geared lower with a 15k RPM redline so she easily runs away from my 6th Gen in any speed contest.  

 

For you things will be different.  If you want the 8th Gen, nothing less will suffice.  If you're on the fence, you may want to analyze and/or rationalize how you feel about it then decide.  Because like you said, the 8th Gen won't blow your socks off compared to your 6th Gen.  Having said that, if you find an 8th Gen for $8k or less, that in my opinion is reason enough to upgrade to the newer, less mileage machine.  Back in 2015 the 8th Gen were still in the $13k range so that weighed in on my decision not to upgrade.

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I didn't have that quandary or need to rationalise. I simply don't like the noise IL4's make. And I've never ridden one yet that doesn't send a "buzz" through the bars that makes my aging joints ache.

 

And frankly, at 61 years old I don't think I'd be able to get off it after an 80 mile commute....

 

But I can see the attraction, having ridden one, biggest issue I had was remembering that the engine is pretty gutless until 8,000 rpm. The times I have my Vif at 8000 rpm are very few and far between.

 

But it's your money, your choice isn't it. TBH the only thing I don't like about my 8th gen is that Honda fpor some reason removed the CBS.

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9 hours ago, Sparticus said:

 TBH the only thing I don't like about my 8th gen is that Honda fpor some reason removed the CBS.

 

Interesting - I think you might be the first person I've seen comment that they don't like the removal of the CBS on the 8th gen - most if not all of the motorcycle press reviews actually praised the CBS removal when the 8th gen came out.  My old Honda PCX150 scooter had CBS (but no ABS) and I thought it was kind of nice actually.

 

Just goes to show it takes diff'rent strokes - what might be right for you, might not be right for some :tongue:

 

 

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It's kind of one of those things you get used to, I've had Honda's with CBS since the last century, VFR's, CBR 1000's, Blackbirds etc. and I got used to being able to stop the bike with minimal fork dive using the rear brake only if the fancy took me. 

 

Because I still ride a Vtec with it on, when I get on my G8 I really think the brakes are naff.... Much more fork dive, doesn't "pull itself" into the road when you clamp both ends on, in fact the rear brake seems to do SFA. I also ran bikes with "normal" brakes as well, an SP1, the odd Firestorm, so it's not that I don't know how to ride with a bike that will only really stop on the front brake, it's just that Honda spent so long getting C-ABS to work right I wonder why they removed it. It's also not that I abuse my brakes, I changed the pads on my Vtec at 30,000 miles, I'm already well into the 2nd set on the front of my G8 at 17,000 miles.

 

Probably removed it to save weight and money no doubt.

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I see no reason to have linked brakes.  You should be able to control the front and rear independently.  I don't see how linked brakes would stop a bike faster unless you don't know what you are doing.  I don't want the bike applying the front brake when I am using the rear.

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1 hour ago, FastM said:

I see no reason to have linked brakes.  You should be able to control the front and rear independently.  I don't see how linked brakes would stop a bike faster unless you don't know what you are doing.  I don't want the bike applying the front brake when I am using the rear.

 

Have you ever used them? Or had to use them in anger? 

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4 hours ago, Sparticus said:

I got used to being able to stop the bike with minimal fork dive using the rear brake only if the fancy took me. 

 

Hi Hayling Islander, Greetings from Chichester

 

I don't understand why there would be less fork dive for the same braking force, assuming you manually apply only the same amount of front brake as the linked system itself would?

 

My 2013 CBR600FA had linked brakes, and I found I still needed to apply the front to get any real stopping power. I also wondered if it hampered low-speed stuff by not being able to apply enough rear brake to stablise, without applying so much front that it slowed you down too much. At any rate I find the VFR much more stable at 4mph or so, but I don't know if it's for that reason.

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HareBrain, You misunderstood what he said...He liked stopping with minimal fork dive (with the just the front brake) and only using the rear if he fancied it.

 

I too missed the linked brakes when I went from a 6th gen to an 8th gen.  I hardly ever used my rear brake on the 6th gen.  When I first got the 8th gen, I was quite shocked by the serious fork dive coming into corners.  Turns out it was because I wasn't using any rear brake.  If you front brake hard coming into a corner, and let off just as you start your lean (as you should always finish your braking before starting the turn, according to most experts) the forks suddenly come back up as your leaning over.  Pretty disturbing feeling when you've never experienced that before (thanks to the previous linked brakes).

 

It's a very easy concept to demonstrate on any non-linked bike.  Just do 2 hard stops...one with just the front brake, and once with both at the same time.  First one, lots of dive...second one, not so much.

 

FYI, the amount of linked front application you get from hitting the rear brake is quite minimal...only 1 out of 6 pistons is being activated and most people wouldn't even notice it was happening.  But it's just enough to help shorten the distance of a 'rear only' braking event, with no risk of unexpected front lockup or any other front issue.

Applying the front brake causes the secondary master to send fluid to 1 of only 3 pistons on the rear, and will almost reach rear lockup power under a panic front brake application.

 

Here is a very thorough description...

http://nerdrider.com/?p=35

 

Based on all of this knowledge and my own full understanding of the system and its real world experience, I feel that everyone that knocks or hates the VFR's Linked brakes are wrong (just my opinion).  I think they are brilliant, and work exactly as they were designed...until it's time to bleed the system, then they kinda suck :wink:

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10 hours ago, DriverDave said:

He liked stopping with minimal fork dive (with the just the front brake) and only using the rear if he fancied it.

 

Gotcha, I had it the wrong way round, probably because I almost never use the front brake on its own (a hangover from cycling, I guess) but often do the rear. Thanks for the info.

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On 10/30/2017 at 9:47 PM, Sparticus said:

I didn't have that quandary or need to rationalise. I simply don't like the noise IL4's make. And I've never ridden one yet that doesn't send a "buzz" through the bars that makes my aging joints ache.

 

And frankly, at 61 years old I don't think I'd be able to get off it after an 80 mile commute....

 

But I can see the attraction, having ridden one, biggest issue I had was remembering that the engine is pretty gutless until 8,000 rpm. The times I have my Vif at 8000 rpm are very few and far between.

 

But it's your money, your choice isn't it. TBH the only thing I don't like about my 8th gen is that Honda fpor some reason removed the CBS.

All your concerns are definitely in the ballpark.  The inline 4's definitely have a high frequency buzz at certain RPM's.  Including 600's.   I've never really been too sensitive to types of engine vibrations, but I do notice that the VFR800 is smoother overall than my CBR600rr.  

 

I can only speak for the CBR600rr model year's 2013-present....Honda did a superb job of tuning this bike for smooth power and torque.  It pulls nicely below 8k RPM and never feels underpowered.  It's really hard to bog this engine.  It will pull cleanly in 6th gear from 45 mph....try that on a VFR800.  It also pulls hard in top gear from a roll on at 75+ mph.  Just a function of gearing really.  The CBR600rr's gearing is lower and the gear ratio's in the 6-speed are VERY close together.  The VFR's gear ratios are much more widely spaced apart along with a tall 6th gear for relaxed highway cruising.  Just different missions for different bikes.  I think the CBR's are a great compliment to the VFR800. 

 

Anyway, my riding style has me shifting my VFR800 around 6,500 RPM under normal riding conditions (not in a hurry).  But usually I will rev it to 8k RPM because I can't help myself!  But yeah I don't spend a whole lot of time above 9k RPM in either my VFR800 or my CBR600rr.  No need to.  They're plenty fast below that. 

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With CBS, as my MOT examiner showed me, it's possible to lock the front wheel in the rollers using only the rear brake, that's actually quite a lot of braking force. I've kind of re-trained myself to use both brakes again now instead of letting the CBS do it for me, I guess I just got used to having that option.

 

Absolutely agree, changing brake fluid is a challenge though, three calipers, two master cylinders, four slaves and a PCV...

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3 hours ago, Sparticus said:

With CBS,as my MOT examiner showed me,

 

 

My Moto Guzzi LeMans had linked braking too, front lever only operating 1 disc and the foot the other front and rear disc. 

On its 1st MOT the bike failed to meet the required performance with the single disc....  but although technically it was a fail, the tester was happy once explained and seeing the setup in action....   27 years ago.....   time flies.....

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I still wish they gave it more power and less weight.

It is very much a continuation of the 3/4 liter VFR line.

This is good imho, except for the weight and power thing. :comp13:

 

Different horses for different courses I guess. :beer:

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