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Can running car motor oil cause a slipping clutch?


JonVFR

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Hey guys, new VFR owner here. I have a 98 with about 28k miles and discovered after buying it that the clutch slips when hitting the power band with near wide open throttle. The previous owner took great care of the bike so I don't think he was abusing it but I did come to find out that he was running regular Mobile 1 motor oil in it. Could that be the cause of it slipping? I continually read that you aren't supposed to use car oil in motorcycles with wet clutches. I've only ever used Mobile 1 4T in my bikes and have already changed the oil in the VFR. Between that and bleeding the clutch lines, it seems to have made a slight improvement. I would think that the clutch plates shouldn't actually be worn enough to slip so I'm wondering if there's anything I can do to fix this problem before replacing them. Would it be worth it to try putting some Seafoam in the oil, going on a couple good rides, and then changing the oil again?

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If the clutch is not releasing fully/easily when you let go of the lever, that might account for some slip, so as a first step I'd suggest doing a clutch fluid replacement and bleed. There is a very small return port in the master (under the small pressed in deflector plate in the floor of the reservoir) which can clog and prevent fluid pressure releasing from the line.

 

You might also check that the clutch pushrod is moving freely, you can access this by pulling the slave cylinder off, then the pushrod can be pulled right out; if needed you can polish off any wear and grease it before installation. 

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If you have to do it, clutch plate replacement is not a terribly big job, and it can be done on the sidestand without draining the oil. You need a clutch cover gasket plus the plates, I used EBC CK plates and some new springs, and my clutch feels like new now. 

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I agree with Terry, you'd be surprised what you'll find in the VFR's hydraulic clutch lines and master/slave cylinders after 19 years.  My clutch wasn't releasing properly, just as Terry describes in his post, the bike would judder and shake after each gear change when accelerating hard.

 

Here's what I found in my '99 VFR's clutch when I bought it last December...

 

DSCF1273_zpsrr3zamyf.jpg

 

DSCF1325_zpsnumdxgn3.jpg

 

DSCF1322_zps5lilu62q.jpg

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Oh man that's nasty. The clutch fluid was definitely dark and due for a change when I bled it. I've got a stainless line to put on too so I think I'll change that and make sure the master and slave are clean and functioning properly before trying to change the clutch.

 

At what point in the lever travel should the friction point be? Mine is right at the end of the lever.

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My worn clutch (95000km) had quite a sudden engagement near the end of travel, and was a little difficult to launch smoothly. The fiction discs were visibly worn and  a bit thin. With new discs, the engagement band is much wider and so the clutch is smoother and easier to use.

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Replaced clutch plates around 50k miles in mine, iirc.

Have not allowed fluid to get near that bad. Yikes.

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I've found that in bikes reaching 20 years old a lot of the time the clutch springs tend to get weak.  $10 for some EBC heavy duty clutch springs are the first thing to change after doing the clutch fluid change out.  Clutch springs are super easy to change and most of the time, they take care of the slippage you speak of that occurs higher in the rev range.  

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In regard to the oil, you cannot run 'energy conserving' oil in a motorcycle with a wet clutch. Most auto oils are energy conserving. It's a circular shaped symbol.

 

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  • 2 weeks later...
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Don’t use car oil in motorcycles because:

 

1. Energy conserving (usually molybdenum) makes clutch slip

 

2. Not designed for high heat and rev cycles of a motorcycle 

 

3. Car oils are not designed to serve integrated gearboxes (cars have separate gearboxes and separate oil for them - bikes share a dump for both)

 

4. Car oils lack the specific detergent packages required by motorcycles. Motorcycles generate more crap in their oil than cars

 

I’ve run diesel oil in my bikes before and it works OK for short intervals but is always a second best option. Gears shift much smoother with motorcycle oil and it lasts longer. 

 

Stray 

 

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  • 3 months later...
On 10/14/2017 at 7:30 AM, smackdoogle said:

I've found that in bikes reaching 20 years old a lot of the time the clutch springs tend to get weak.  $10 for some EBC heavy duty clutch springs are the first thing to change after doing the clutch fluid change out.  Clutch springs are super easy to change and most of the time, they take care of the slippage you speak of that occurs higher in the rev range.  

 

I'm thinking that may have been the case. I finally got around to doing the springs and plates this weekend. The plates definitely did look pretty worn compared to the new ones but, even comparing the springs side by side, the new springs were a good 3mm taller than the old ones. The clutch now engages as soon as you start to let it out vs. before where it would catch right at the end of the lever's travel. 

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Respectfully, I disagree with Stray.  I do agree that you should avoid using the "energy conserving" oil in bikes with wet clutches, but I have used Mobil 1 synthetic in my bikes for years without problem.  Mobil 1 10W-40 High Mileage oil works very well, and will not make your clutch slip.  My 98 had 117,000 on the clock when I sold it; ran like a top.   A friend at work has a Kawasaki ZRX1200R with over 220,000 miles on it.  I asked what oil he used and he replied, "whatever is on sale".  Today's lubricants are incredible.  In the long run, keeping all your fluids fresh; engine oil, coolant, and brake fluid will do more to keep your bike roadworthy than your choice of "car oil vs moto oil".  my 2 cents.   JJ

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I'd follow the specifications for the bike.

 

I had to source some oil in Lithuania and all the petrol station had (in the middle of nowhere) with the right specs was for a 4 stroke lawnmower...

Beggars cannae be choosers..... :goofy: 

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12 hours ago, M1962 said:

At the risk of upsetting anyone I don't understand why people don't just use the items recommended by the manufacturer.

Because, quite simply, we can do better.  Many of us want to do all we can to preserve and enhance the machines that bring us much satisfaction and happiness.

 

The Honda recommended engine oil for my 2000  5th gen was HONDA GN4 4-stroke or equivalent motor oil (italics mine),  API service classification SF or SG, Viscosity 15W-40.  I doubt you could even find API SF or SG oil these days.  What is the highest API classification currently available, SN?  Motor oils have gone through at least 5 classification upgrades in the 18 years since the bike was new.  Lubricants are better now than they were in 2000.  I'm sure that Honda oils are better now as well.

 

Do you own an automobile? Most of us do.  Maybe it's a Ford.  Do you insist on Motorcraft oil and a Motorcraft filter when you change the oil?  Not likely.  Like most of us,  you probably go down to your local auto parts store and choose a name brand oil and an aftermarket filter.  Why not look for the best options for your motorbike as well?  Many aftermarket filters perform better than OE branded filters in terms of filtration efficiency and capacity.  On our motorcycles, you can be sure that Honda does not make the oil filters, they buy them from Toyo Roki and rebrand them.  Google "oil filter cutaway comparison" and you'll see why some of us are very particular about the filters we choose to install on our bikes and automobiles.

 

Some other examples of aftermarket parts:

Coolant pressure cap:  I could order part number 19045-GBF-700 ($28.59), and then wait for delivery.  It's unlikely that even my local shop would have that in stock.  OR - I could find a Stant 11233 pressure cap at my local Pep Boys for under $8.00 and be riding this afternoon.

 

Headlamp:  I could order two headlamps part number 34901-MS2-671  (45/50 watts) @ $22.61 each, or find an H4 equivalent at my auto parts store.  I like Sylvania 9003 Xtravision 55/60 watts.   You can buy a 2 pack for around $25, and if you want you can upgrade to SilverStar for an even brighter light.  I've run the Xtravision lights over 100,000 miles without any noticeable strain on my headlight circuit.  They work.

 

Brake pads:  Even a part as common as these, your Honda dealer probably does not have OE pads in stock.  Another week or 10 day wait.  Or you can get Galfer, EBC, or BikeMaster  aftermarket pads at shops like Cycle Gear, or overnight on Amazon:  .  

 

Stick with the OE recommended parts and you'll always be safe, but I believe that in some cases, aftermarket parts are better quality, sometimes for less dough.  For me it's about quality and performance.  And, if you are on a road trip in a strange town, in need of a headlamp or pressure cap, it's nice to know you have options.  Peace.  Jeff  J.

 

 

 

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The basic answer is NO, people always say I changed the oil to type X & my clutch started slipping. It's not the oil type that caused the problem its because its NEW oil, so more slippy than old oil. The 5th gen's (and I assume 6th) has a known issue that the clutch springs set & then cause slippage. As soon as you detect it, change the springs they just get tired & short & don't provide the gripping force they used to.

 

It is very simple to do this on the 5th gen, you don't even need to drain the oil. First get a new clutch cover gasket & a set of springs.

Remove the right fairing panel, place bike on side stand, then looosen the clutch cover bolts in a diagonally opposed fashion, as in top right bottom left, top left bottom right & work your way around like that. It might require a rubber mallet tap to seperate the case & there is a lever point on the bottom. Be careful not to lose the two locating dowels or the starter gear, which can come away with the case.

 

Place case on a clean surface, like a newspaper etc. Now remove one clutch spring bolt at a time & replace the spring & tight the bolt to the correct torque setting in the manual its quite light on these as the clutch basket is soft alloy.  Once all 5 springs are replaced, remove the old gasket from the cases & cover, clean up where required, check the dowels & starter gear wheel are where they should be & put the new gasket & cover back on. Re insert & tighten the cover bolts in a diagonally opposed fashion & tighten to the specified torque.

 

Job done, enjoy the ride. the plates will need replaced around 50-60K miles with another new set of springs.

 

Enjoy

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On the 4th gen (at least) be aware that when you pull the cover,  the pin #2 in the drawing may get pulled out. Causing O ring #11 to fall out

 

Knipsel.JPG.0c1da09cb168eeb415b84eb61216f5ca.JPG

 

It is a bit of a fumble to get the O ring and pin in place again, but it is doable. The gears are not "timed"so no worries if the gear #1 slips out...

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