Jump to content

Buying advice - 8th gen


faire

Recommended Posts

  • Member Contributer
On 10/13/2017 at 7:16 PM, TheGoldTooth said:

Knight Design lowered pegs; a Givi 3D603 tank bag; T-Rex frame, front fork, and rear axle sliders; a Denali SoundBomb Mini horn; a Kaoko throttle lock; and right-angle valve stems for the Pilot Road 4 tires I bought after 300 unsatisfactory miles on the OEM tires.

 

Sweet setup! I need those pegs, sliders, and throttle lock! 

 

Right angle stems rule. took me long enough to put them on! 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

  • Replies 59
  • Created
  • Last Reply
  • Member Contributer
1 hour ago, joepopp said:

 

Total price with shipping and Vat was $1331. This includes the 10% code (CBF10). I wanted the bigger top box so I researched Euro vendors. I wrote North West and said no problem to ship. I am still waiting on the top box (Shipping in November) but I don't need it until next summer so it was worth the wait for the price savings. I did get the rack carrier and adapter for the top box. The panniers integrate into the bike beautifully and there is no frame when you take them off. Very good looking. They are smaller than the Givis and you can't fit a full face helmet in either one but that is why I got the big top box for longer trips. 

 

I like the Corbin a lot! It does sit you back a little further than the stock seat but I have those tall Motopumps and I love the position. It is a one piece seat which differs from stock but is way more comfy! Easy on and off for battery access too. Full disclosure - they are a sponsor of mine for a web series I'm editing so I did not buy the seat. They also provided the seat for my 6th Gen. and I loved that seat as well! 

 

 

Awesome, thanks for the info on the Travel Pack.  I think I'll add it to my review web page for the benefit of The Masses.

 

The Corbin on my 4th gen weighed as much as a kayak, tore up the bike's paint, and the backrest rusted in place, but otherwise I loved it, LOL.  I'll be interested to see how that works out for you over time.  If you plan on making it to a bike night here at Spiegel's some day, please let me know so I can have a first-hand look.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

  • Member Contributer

FWIW:

 

Traction control on a ~100hp bike is a waste of time, need, weight and money.  TC on the 8th gen. has record of not working well not to mention the rather poor job of it's design, function, placement, and bulkiness on the bars.  I'd rather not need it due to riding skill and good judgement.  Look at some of the YouTube videos of Rossi and Stoner riding without any traction control.  You'll hear them bad mouth electronic controls if you find the right videos...especially Stoner.  Find the one where he states why he retired at 27 y.o.  There is no substitute for riding skill. 

 

Heated grips don't keep your hands warm in spite of what other's say after having them on two bikes I've owned.  You still need the same warm gloves on a bike with heated grips so definitely not worth paying for to me.  ABS isn't worth the money, weight, and slight complication to me after riding without it for many years and my share of close calls.  Un-linked brakes are a blessing, IMO.  If you don't know how to stop a bike quickly without ABS, maybe you should learn...just another opinion.  You don't really need a center stand (I negotiated one free and installed on my standard I now wish wasn't on the bike) but you should spend the money on a front & rear set of Pit Bull stands.  If you ever own a set, you'll kick yourself for not doing it sooner.  As far as self-canceling turn signals.....really!  Anyone that regularly forgets to cancel turn signals is anything but a careful and attentive motorcycle rider.  Those too are known not to function reliably on an 8th gen.  The rear suspension on a standard is easily adjustable and I've had no need to adjust the front at all.  Due to the much improved low end torque (with a slip on), I think the 8th gen. is much quicker in the twisties than either the 5th or 6th gens. that I've owned.  I may be the only person alive that didn't adore the 5th gen. and it's gear noise.  It did have significant design flaws, one of which can get the rider in trouble.  PM me if you want to know what.    

 

That's just another bunch of opinions and stuff to think about.  People tend to like what they bought whether standard or deluxe so the main thing is just ride, have fun, be careful, and accept that fact that there is no perfect motorcycle that does everything very well.  ; )     

Link to comment
Share on other sites

  • Member Contributer

I will have to at least partially disagree with Bent.  Which is nothing new.  Must have something to do with that heretic eschewing the gear-driven cam noise.  ;-)

 

I'm one of the biggest complainers about the TC.  Yet the last one to say anything about the little switch on the left bar.  That said, we can't all be MotoGP champs.  Maybe it's easy to say that if you can't ride without TC (or ABS or whatever) then you shouldn't be riding but for some, it may not be the worse insurance policy in the world.  After a half million or so miles not feeling like TC ever would have done me a favor, I almost always turn mine off.  Others swear by leaving it on.  Your mileage may vary.

 

Yeah, the heated grips don't make all that much of a difference.  And those allegedly curve-sensitive self-cancelling turn signals are a pain in my balls.  Next time I have my plastics off I'm disabling that.  The remote preload adjuster is handy if you like to tweak between pillion and pillion-free riding but it's not critical.  Pit Bull stands are nice but they don't help much when you need to work on your bike 1,000 miles from home.  None of the 8th gens use linked brakes, thankfully.

 

The big disagreement is gonna be about the ABS.  That disagreement transcends the issue of rider skills and awareness and has to do with physics and human reflexes.  Maybe it doesn't apply if you live on a mountain road and that's the only place you ever ride, but it's a lesson that I've learned the hard way, and I can say that so far ABS has saved my 8th gen twice and once saved both a pedestrian and the bike.  Allow me to explain with a scenario...

 

Picture an intersection with crosswalk lines painted on the roadway.

 

image.png.19168daf6723e64ba198a78e230816e0.png

 

You're toodling along (see arrow) and someone blows a light and turns left in front of you.  So you grab a handful of brake.  The front squats and static friction is now your friend.  And just as you reach maximum braking force and thinking "I've got this", your heavily loaded front tire reaches that "stop line" before the crosswalk.

 

The paint on that stop line has a substantially lower coefficient of friction, so now your front tire is sliding.  But, it's only a foot across, so it shouldn't be a big deal, right?

 

Wrong!  Once the no longer rotating tire hits pavement again, it's no longer static friction that you're depending on.  So you have to re-apply/adjust your braking force.  But your reflex time means that you've traveled ten or fifteen feet already.  By the time you've done that, you're now well into the paint that delineates the crosswalk.  And as you're re-adjusting for that, you're about to hit pavement again.  And then possibly hitting the vehicle that just cut you off, just as your bike's nose dives under max braking force for the last time before the flatbed pulls it aboard.

 

We're not all racer-boys and public roads are not tracks with reliable pavement that we've walked and inspected before a race.  Public roads don't have corner workers with flags and bags of stuff to pick up slippery liquids from the vehicles that preceded us.  $#!+ happens, and the ABS is a nice thing to have when it does.

 

On the other hand I wouldn't mind having a way to shut off the ABS when I want.

 

Good luck whatever you do!

Link to comment
Share on other sites

On 10/6/2017 at 2:17 AM, faire said:

Hello all,

 

I could use your expert guidance!

 

The time has come, I think I'm finally going to replace my current trusty steed, a 3rd gen 1992 VFR750.  She still runs well but plenty of cosmetic wear and it's time to pass it on to a beginner rider.  After doing all the research to identify the next best motorcycle made since then ... I've decided that the 8th generation VFR800 is the one to buy.  To be honest, I was surprised at how little Honda has changed the VFR in 25 years.  All in all that's not a bad thing.  I am not interested in 200 more cc's and 50 more hp or anything like that.  But like everyone, I wish Honda would put some effort into weight reduction.

 

Anyway, now I have the big dilemma of whether to get a basic model or the DLX.  I am told the DLX offers 4 things: antilock brakes, traction control, heated grips, self cancelling turn signals.  My usage would include plenty of commuting in the city and weekend trips, mostly year round on everything from wet roads to high desert canyons.  From a 25+ year rider who isn't accustomed to  the DLX features, are these really worth the extra dough?  Warm hands are nice but aren't the heated grips an easy to install kit?  I like the idea of antilocks but i can't see the need for traction control at all.  Haven't had the chance to test ride the Deluxe model yet and unfortunately it sounds like ordering one means commiting to buy one.  Local dealer has a 2014 basic model on the floor for $8k (plus all the fees and taxes and stuff).  I inquired about a DLX model and was told they could get one, and the price would be about $10k plus fees/tax/etc, to be verified.  Seems like cycletrader has a few scattered around the nation for $1k or so less, though I infer some of these might be demo models with milage and some light wear.  Or is my local dealer too expensive?

 

Couple more questions:

 

- is the solo seat cowl standard equipment?

- is the centerstand standard equipment?

- has anyone fitted legacy Givi Monokey side cases (flat back like E21 and E360)?  My VFR750 currently has a Givi Wingrack & good condition hard cases that are fantastic.  Would anything stop me from transferring the old Givi kit over?  I know the side case & pannier rack design has changed from what I see on the Givi site, but how hard could it be to just form my own adapter fit kit to the Wingrack?  Anyone recommend other options?

 

 

 

 

Pix for your viewing pleasure:     OLD   /   NEW   glamour shots.  The more things change, the more the VFR stays the same!

 

 

 

honda-vfr-750-f-1992-246536.jpgvfr800-2014-black.png

Thanks for all your insights!

 

 

 

Might be moving from Reno to the Seattle area soon. Probably consider selling my new (~780mile) '14 Deluxe to get a 2nd car for work. Also found out we have our 4th kiddo on the way sooo.... Lol. 

 

Let me know if you're interested we can talk.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

  • Member Contributer
On 10/19/2017 at 8:28 PM, Rectaltronics said:

I will have to at least partially disagree with Bent.  Which is nothing new.  Must have something to do with that heretic eschewing the gear-driven cam noise.  ;-)

 

I'm one of the biggest complainers about the TC.  Yet the last one to say anything about the little switch on the left bar.  That said, we can't all be MotoGP champs.  Maybe it's easy to say that if you can't ride without TC (or ABS or whatever) then you shouldn't be riding but for some, it may not be the worse insurance policy in the world.  After a half million or so miles not feeling like TC ever would have done me a favor, I almost always turn mine off.  Others swear by leaving it on.  Your mileage may vary.

 

Yeah, the heated grips don't make all that much of a difference.  And those allegedly curve-sensitive self-cancelling turn signals are a pain in my balls.  Next time I have my plastics off I'm disabling that.  The remote preload adjuster is handy if you like to tweak between pillion and pillion-free riding but it's not critical.  Pit Bull stands are nice but they don't help much when you need to work on your bike 1,000 miles from home.  None of the 8th gens use linked brakes, thankfully.

 

The big disagreement is gonna be about the ABS.  That disagreement transcends the issue of rider skills and awareness and has to do with physics and human reflexes.  Maybe it doesn't apply if you live on a mountain road and that's the only place you ever ride, but it's a lesson that I've learned the hard way, and I can say that so far ABS has saved my 8th gen twice and once saved both a pedestrian and the bike.  Allow me to explain with a scenario...

 

Picture an intersection with crosswalk lines painted on the roadway.

 

image.png.19168daf6723e64ba198a78e230816e0.png

 

You're toodling along (see arrow) and someone blows a light and turns left in front of you.  So you grab a handful of brake.  The front squats and static friction is now your friend.  And just as you reach maximum braking force and thinking "I've got this", your heavily loaded front tire reaches that "stop line" before the crosswalk.

 

The paint on that stop line has a substantially lower coefficient of friction, so now your front tire is sliding.  But, it's only a foot across, so it shouldn't be a big deal, right?

 

Wrong!  Once the no longer rotating tire hits pavement again, it's no longer static friction that you're depending on.  So you have to re-apply/adjust your braking force.  But your reflex time means that you've traveled ten or fifteen feet already.  By the time you've done that, you're now well into the paint that delineates the crosswalk.  And as you're re-adjusting for that, you're about to hit pavement again.  And then possibly hitting the vehicle that just cut you off, just as your bike's nose dives under max braking force for the last time before the flatbed pulls it aboard.

 

We're not all racer-boys and public roads are not tracks with reliable pavement that we've walked and inspected before a race.  Public roads don't have corner workers with flags and bags of stuff to pick up slippery liquids from the vehicles that preceded us.  $#!+ happens, and the ABS is a nice thing to have when it does.

 

On the other hand I wouldn't mind having a way to shut off the ABS when I want.

 

Good luck whatever you do!

 

Our disagreement is common which I'm fine with.  For the record I live on a mountain, ride on a mountain road to go anywhere from my home and ride almost solely on mountains and twisties.  If I had to ride in straight lines much at all, I wouldn't own a motorcycle.    ABS is a matter of personal preference at the end of the day.  I prefer not to have it.  Other's here prefer to have it.  What's wrong with that?  How they work, don't work, etc. is irrelevant when it comes to personal preference.  I'll also never own a yellow bike....who cares?

Link to comment
Share on other sites

  • Member Contributer

I'd disagree with Bent about the heated grips, as the Fall weather cools down I'm starting to use mine more, around 14C and position 2 is perfect and so on as it gets colder 

 

 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

  • Member Contributer
On 10/21/2017 at 10:22 AM, Bent said:

Our disagreement is common which I'm fine with.  For the record I live on a mountain, ride on a mountain road to go anywhere from my home and ride almost solely on mountains and twisties.  If I had to ride in straight lines much at all, I wouldn't own a motorcycle.    ABS is a matter of personal preference at the end of the day.  I prefer not to have it.  Other's here prefer to have it.  What's wrong with that?  How they work, don't work, etc. is irrelevant when it comes to personal preference.  I'll also never own a yellow bike....who cares?

 

Since you had to end with "who cares?"...  Choosing a yellow bike (which, coincidentally, I've had a few!) won't make a huge difference in the likelihood of me surviving an encounter with an idiot motorist in my path.

 

"If you don't know how to stop a bike quickly without ABS, maybe you should learn" is not nearly the same thing as "ABS is a matter of personal preference".

 

It's nice that you only ride in the mountains.

 

Most of us don't have that luxury..

 

A rider can learn how to brake all he or she wants but "at the end of the day", the little devil box under the seat can still figure out optimal braking better than a human in uncontrolled conditions.

 

You go ahead and enjoy your preference for simplicity and so on but don't go telling folks they can somehow do without ABS if they "learn".  That is wrong.  It has been proven wrong.  And by people with credentials like Stoner, et al.

 

Ride safe,

Brad

 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

I have a deluxe with ABS.  This is my first bike with ABS and after about 4,000 mi., I have yet to feel the ABS kick in.  This is with about 60% of riding in the twisties.  I don't see when I would want to turn it off.  Maybe at a track day.  Now in the rain, wet roads or gravel/stones in the road, it may come in handy.   

Link to comment
Share on other sites

  • Member Contributer
2 hours ago, FastM said:

I have a deluxe with ABS.  This is my first bike with ABS and after about 4,000 mi., I have yet to feel the ABS kick in.  This is with about 60% of riding in the twisties.  I don't see when I would want to turn it off.  Maybe at a track day.  Now in the rain, wet roads or gravel/stones in the road, it may come in handy.   

 

It's not gonna kick in until you're literally out of traction under braking.  Although some folks have reported it activating when braking over very badly rutted roadway or potholes.  I think mine has done that as well.  I'm not the tiniest bit shocked - my car does that too.  You'd probably want to figure out how to shut it off for a track day though.

 

First time i felt mine kick in on the VFR it was intentionally, when the bike was new, with the rear brake, and that took a little doing.  It doesn't need as much of a stomp now that the pads are all bedded in.  Second time was the front, when some idiot pedestrian got in front of me from between slow/stopped vehicles in the middle of a block.  I stopped the bike just a few inches short of her and actually knocked her handbag around. During the entire episode (the very long second or so!) I was positive that I was gonna torpedo her.  If I were on my 4th gen she'd have had my front wheel and fender right up in her lady bits for sure.

 

I personally think of the ABS as an insurance policy.  It weighs just a tad more than a healthy dump, adds relatively little expense (especially compared to what some folks will pay just to make more exhaust noise) and makes brake bleeding take a few more minutes.  And yeah, it's one more technical doodad to potentially go awry.  The payoff is that it makes your job more reliable when you're coming around a blind curve and find a harvester or Bambi in front of you.  And consider that intersection diatribe of mine in light of the most recent motorcycle collision study which shows that two thirds of all motorcycle collisions occur at intersections, and half the fatalities.  As someone who commutes on two wheels, and who has to go through at least a half dozen intersections in a neighborhood full of Eastern Europeans and Asians who think stop signs and red lights are just suggestions, just to reach the nearest highway entrance, that's huge for me.

 

Of course as always, to each their own.

 

 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

  • Member Contributer

On my BMWs any time (afik) my ABS has kicked In has been in the rain while stopping at heavily painted intersections. One time for sure it kept me from possibly tucking the front wheel and sliding into the cross traffic. The new intersection graphics were like ice.

 

One of my better friends , (Dublin guy) was an ABS engineer for Toyota and a Ducati rider, commented "out think ABS? No way" 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

  • Member Contributer

Personally I would rather not have ABS, TC or even brakes for that matter as all add weight and if you are a riding God you don't need them. I ride naked for the same reason, why put on heavy, hot uncomfortable gear and a helmet if you have learnt to be a riding God?

 

Although I do always wear a condom as sometimes protection is wise.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

My take on ABS is that it's a great training tool to teach you to never need it.

 

If you practice your braking, having ABS is a great way to find your traction threshold with confidence. On a non ABS bike, you'll be worried about locking the front up and potentially crashing so some riders may never find that threshold and never reach the full potential of their bike's brakes.

 

On an ABS bike, you can practice braking deeper and deeper until you feel the ABS kick in and then you know that you've reached the threshold.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

  • Member Contributer

If you think ABS is a training tool, you are so far retarded that there is little point in me educating you.

ABS is there for one reason, to save your ass in an unexpected situation.  

If you think you can outthink or outbreak ABS then damn, go be the best racer in the world. 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

  • Member Contributer
30 minutes ago, Nelix said:

If you think ABS is a training tool, you are so far retarded that there is little point in me educating you.

ABS is there for one reason, to save your ass in an unexpected situation.  

If you think you can outthink or outbreak ABS then damn, go be the best racer in the world. 

 

 

Early dose of cabin fever??? Lol

Link to comment
Share on other sites

  • Member Contributer
1 minute ago, fink said:

 

 

Early dose of cabin fever??? Lol

Possibly, been on bikes 37 years now, still learning.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

  • Member Contributer

The day I stop learning is the day I hang up me leathers.   

 

N here was me thinking I was older than you. :wheel::laugh::laugh:   You have 3 years on me. Know how you feel.  Just had someone on Cbr forum ask if anyone had put led indicators on a 95 bike. Lol. 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

  • Member Contributer
1 minute ago, fink said:

Well you have had an easy life lol.   Bike off the road on the commute now too many deer about. 

Mine in garage, but hoping for one last dry day when off.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

  • Member Contributer
9 hours ago, bykemike said:

On my BMWs any time (afik) my ABS has kicked In has been in the rain while stopping at heavily painted intersections. One time for sure it kept me from possibly tucking the front wheel and sliding into the cross traffic. The new intersection graphics were like ice.

 

One of my better friends , (Dublin guy) was an ABS engineer for Toyota and a Ducati rider, commented "out think ABS? No way" 

 

The reflective powder they sprinkle on freshly laid roadway paint in some places makes oil seem like rhino liner by comparison.

 

It's interesting, though, to see how some folks manage to rationalize their preferences.

 

 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

  • Member Contributer
3 minutes ago, Nelix said:

Mine in garage, but hoping for one last dry day when off.

 

I wish have been stuck on nights for the  past 2 months . 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

  • Member Contributer
On 10/22/2017 at 4:51 PM, Rectaltronics said:

 

Since you had to end with "who cares?"...  Choosing a yellow bike (which, coincidentally, I've had a few!) won't make a huge difference in the likelihood of me surviving an encounter with an idiot motorist in my path.

 

"If you don't know how to stop a bike quickly without ABS, maybe you should learn" is not nearly the same thing as "ABS is a matter of personal preference".

 

It's nice that you only ride in the mountains.

 

Most of us don't have that luxury..

 

A rider can learn how to brake all he or she wants but "at the end of the day", the little devil box under the seat can still figure out optimal braking better than a human in uncontrolled conditions.

 

You go ahead and enjoy your preference for simplicity and so on but don't go telling folks they can somehow do without ABS if they "learn".  That is wrong.  It has been proven wrong.  And by people with credentials like Stoner, et al.

 

Ride safe,

Brad

 

 

Thanks for your input and opinions.  I'll tell anyone anything I choose since that's my right just as it is yours but, along with your philosophy, don't be telling me what to do.  And, thanks, once again, for confirming our disagreement is common which, once again, I'm fine with.  You don't seem to be accepting of disagreement but I'm not taking on your problem with that.  OTHERS asked for input on a subject, and they got that from a variety of people with a variety of opinions.  I'll stick with my opinion that every rider should know how to stop a bike quickly without ABS as I originally stated.  There's no downside to knowing how to stop a bike quickly with or without ABS.  BTW, this entire thread was started by someone other than you asking for opinions.  He got opinions which will never be the same from everyone who responds.  If you can't accept differing opinions, maybe you would be happier elsewhere because they're always going to be here and any other forum.  Just curious, who took the "luxury" of riding in mountains away from you?  You have a way of twisting things.  Anyone who wants to can ride in mountains.  I'll keep my dialogue to motorcycles from now on so have fun any way you want because, once again, I don't care how you feel about anything.  See ya!        

Link to comment
Share on other sites

On 10/19/2017 at 5:05 PM, Bent said:

FWIW:

 

Traction control on a ~100hp bike is a waste of time, need, weight and money.  TC on the 8th gen. has record of not working well not to mention the rather poor job of it's design, function, placement, and bulkiness on the bars.  I'd rather not need it due to riding skill and good judgement.  Look at some of the YouTube videos of Rossi and Stoner riding without any traction control.  You'll hear them bad mouth electronic controls if you find the right videos...especially Stoner.  Find the one where he states why he retired at 27 y.o.  There is no substitute for riding skill. 

 

Heated grips don't keep your hands warm in spite of what other's say after having them on two bikes I've owned.  You still need the same warm gloves on a bike with heated grips so definitely not worth paying for to me.  ABS isn't worth the money, weight, and slight complication to me after riding without it for many years and my share of close calls.  Un-linked brakes are a blessing, IMO.  If you don't know how to stop a bike quickly without ABS, maybe you should learn...just another opinion.  You don't really need a center stand (I negotiated one free and installed on my standard I now wish wasn't on the bike) but you should spend the money on a front & rear set of Pit Bull stands.  If you ever own a set, you'll kick yourself for not doing it sooner.  As far as self-canceling turn signals.....really!  Anyone that regularly forgets to cancel turn signals is anything but a careful and attentive motorcycle rider.  Those too are known not to function reliably on an 8th gen.  The rear suspension on a standard is easily adjustable and I've had no need to adjust the front at all.  Due to the much improved low end torque (with a slip on), I think the 8th gen. is much quicker in the twisties than either the 5th or 6th gens. that I've owned.  I may be the only person alive that didn't adore the 5th gen. and it's gear noise.  It did have significant design flaws, one of which can get the rider in trouble.  PM me if you want to know what.    

 

That's just another bunch of opinions and stuff to think about.  People tend to like what they bought whether standard or deluxe so the main thing is just ride, have fun, be careful, and accept that fact that there is no perfect motorcycle that does everything very well.  ; )     

I appreciate Bent's perspective (always a good contributor). Everyone is entitled to an opinion.

  • Having ridden with ABS and without - I'd take it every time - I make mistakes and it's worth it.
  • Traction control works on my Africa Twin - great when things get slippery and out of control - I'd say worth it but wouldn't add it if it wasn't on the bike
  • I've had heated grips - I'd say it's a damn sight colder up here and they work fine for me - I'd say worth it but it's tough to justify OEM prices - Koso makes cheaper and equally good grips
  • Centre stand - worth it - maintenance, tire changes - wouldn't go without just to save weight (it's a 500 lb motorcycle)
  • Haven't had cancelling signals - I'd take them if I could get them - more attention to the road and less to routine tasks
  • Ridden bikes with thousands of dollars of upgrades to suspension - can't say I've noticed a useable difference for an average touring rider, tracks for sure

 

Loved my VFR - great bike, still one of the most bulletproof bikes out there - great bike to buy and ride for sport, touring and commuting.

 

Good luck with the bike

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Archived

This topic is now archived and is closed to further replies.


×
×
  • Create New...

Important Information

By using this site, you agree to our Privacy Policy.