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VFR800F 8th Gen Fuel Tank Vacuum Problems


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5 hours ago, Sparticus said:

Nope. UK VFR 800F's have them to meet the "Euro 4" emissions standards.

Gonna post a pic as mine doesn’t appear to have one.  

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Here it is. Well hidden though.

 

I'll quote from another forum how it works, as far as I can tell if it's a "Euro 4" spec it has this as a finished product...

 


"The EVAP canister has 4 opening in it. One is connected to the breather from the tank where the fuel vapour enters the canister. Another is the purge line where the vapour is drawn, via a solenoid valve, into the throttle bodies. The third is a fuel drain line, presumably in case the canister becomes saturated with vapour, which is open to air via a short hose. The last is the air intake where fresh air is drawn in as the vapour is sucked out. I've attached the diagram from the service manual. It looks to me like there would have to be 2 blockages for the canister to allow a vacuum in the tank: the fuel drain and the fresh air intake". Or the valve stuck with two blockages.

VFR800F-evap-1.jpg

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Might be because the requirement came out in 2016, so 2015 bikes most likely needed it to be installed to allow them to be sold in 2016/17. The VFR 1200 hasn't got Euro 4 for some reason, and cannot be bought new anymore.

 

I'm not certain of this, but a 2014 version might well not have it installed?

 

Where did you get the fender extender from?

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5 hours ago, Sparticus said:

Here it is. Well hidden though.

 

I'll quote from another forum how it works, as far as I can tell if it's a "Euro 4" spec it has this as a finished product...

 


"The EVAP canister has 4 opening in it. One is connected to the breather from the tank where the fuel vapour enters the canister. Another is the purge line where the vapour is drawn, via a solenoid valve, into the throttle bodies. The third is a fuel drain line, presumably in case the canister becomes saturated with vapour, which is open to air via a short hose. The last is the air intake where fresh air is drawn in as the vapour is sucked out. I've attached the diagram from the service manual. It looks to me like there would have to be 2 blockages for the canister to allow a vacuum in the tank: the fuel drain and the fresh air intake". Or the valve stuck with two blockages.

VFR800F-evap-1.jpg

Basically it’s the evap system that the Californians have insisted on for more than 2 decades. ?. My bike doesn’t have it.

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13 hours ago, Sparticus said:

Here it is. Well hidden though.

 

I'll quote from another forum how it works, as far as I can tell if it's a "Euro 4" spec it has this as a finished product...

 


"The EVAP canister has 4 opening in it. One is connected to the breather from the tank where the fuel vapour enters the canister. Another is the purge line where the vapour is drawn, via a solenoid valve, into the throttle bodies. The third is a fuel drain line, presumably in case the canister becomes saturated with vapour, which is open to air via a short hose. The last is the air intake where fresh air is drawn in as the vapour is sucked out. I've attached the diagram from the service manual. It looks to me like there would have to be 2 blockages for the canister to allow a vacuum in the tank: the fuel drain and the fresh air intake". Or the valve stuck with two blockages.

VFR800F-evap-1.jpg

Hi Sparticus.

Sorry but don't understand your reasoning for Two blockages. Surely tank Vacuum venting is via the fresh air inlet hose through the canister to the tank breather line. So if you are confident of no pinched or blocked hoses, then you should be suspicious of a faulty canister. Would imagine you should be able to blow air through the ait inlet hose of the canister and with your fuel cap open feel the air exiting right at the fuel cap coupling. 

Cheers.

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I am suspicious of a faulty canister. It's just getting the time to pull it apart and have a look that I need. And as the bike is running fine with it effectively bypassed, the urgency has moved on somewhat.

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  • 3 weeks later...

Yup. Just separate the pipe where it goes into the bottom of the tank, plug the pipe that leads to the canister and run a separate breather pipe from the bottom of the tank to somewhere under the bike. That's all that I have done, and if anything the bike runs better now. 

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  • 1 month later...
Here it is. Well hidden though.
 
I'll quote from another forum how it works, as far as I can tell if it's a "Euro 4" spec it has this as a finished product...
 

"The EVAP canister has 4 opening in it. One is connected to the breather from the tank where the fuel vapour enters the canister. Another is the purge line where the vapour is drawn, via a solenoid valve, into the throttle bodies. The third is a fuel drain line, presumably in case the canister becomes saturated with vapour, which is open to air via a short hose. The last is the air intake where fresh air is drawn in as the vapour is sucked out. I've attached the diagram from the service manual. It looks to me like there would have to be 2 blockages for the canister to allow a vacuum in the tank: the fuel drain and the fresh air intake". Or the valve stuck with two blockages.
VFR800F-evap-1.thumb.jpg.e2070b57ab5e685460e182e47110a320.jpg
So I have a 2014 US version with the 3 grouped hoses out the bottom of the bike, so I assume I have the carbon canister. After noticing some increased suction recently, I lifted the tank and confirmed no kinked hoses. But when blowing through a spare hose connected to the hole under the back of the gas cap (both with tank up and down) it was pretty difficult to move any air through it. I noticed there is a splice connection point on the small vent hose about 10 inches down from where it connects to the bottom of the tank, which is accessible with the tank down. I disconnected it and could blow air through the cap vent hole much easier. This confirmed I had no hose kink or blockage under the tank, and any blockage was occuring below that point or due to the canister itself.
I decided to just leave it disconnected at the splice point and go for a ride. I rode 90 miles, with a fair amount of redline runs and no problems or fault lights. When I stopped to fill the tank, there was just a tiny "chuff" sound when I opened the filler cap, hardly any suction.
I confess to not fully understand how the 4 hose canister system works, but would anyone happen to know if there is any reason why effectively disconnecting the one vent hose as I did, and leaving the other 3 connected would be problematic?

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19 hours ago, 4corsa said:

So I have a 2014 US version with the 3 grouped hoses out the bottom of the bike, so I assume I have the carbon canister. After noticing some increased suction recently, I lifted the tank and confirmed no kinked hoses. But when blowing through a spare hose connected to the hole under the back of the gas cap (both with tank up and down) it was pretty difficult to move any air through it. I noticed there is a splice connection point on the small vent hose about 10 inches down from where it connects to the bottom of the tank, which is accessible with the tank down. I disconnected it and could blow air through the cap vent hole much easier. This confirmed I had no hose kink or blockage under the tank, and any blockage was occuring below that point or due to the canister itself.
I decided to just leave it disconnected at the splice point and go for a ride. I rode 90 miles, with a fair amount of redline runsemoji4.png and no problems or fault lights. When I stopped to fill the tank, there was just a tiny "chuff" sound when I opened the filler cap, hardly any suction.
I confess to not fully understand how the 4 hose canister system works, but would anyone happen to know if there is any reason why effectively disconnecting the one vent hose as I did, and leaving the other 3 connected would be problematic?

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Hi 4corsa.

All variants of the 8 gen will have the 3 hoses at the bottom of the bike so that doesn't mean you have the carbon canister (mine being the Australian version has no canister but has the 3 hoses). The hoses are in order so from the front the first is the Tank Breather(or if you have the Canister - the Canister Breather) followed by the Coolant Overflow followed by the Fuel Filler Overflow.

If you have the canister it's located down near the oil filter behind the lower Radiator(see attached diagram). The splice you are talking about I think you are referring to the coupling joining the small hose from the bottom of the tank to the larger breather hose.

Sounds like you have diagnosed some form of blockage within the Carbon Canister. Having the breather hose disconnected from the canister shouldn't cause any issue at all, the only other restriction could be caused by the common issue of lowering the tank from the maintenance position squashing the small breather hose - as per the discussions in this thread.

Cheers.

 

Canister.JPG

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Hi 4corsa.
All variants of the 8 gen will have the 3 hoses at the bottom of the bike so that doesn't mean you have the carbon canister (mine being the Australian version has no canister but has the 3 hoses). The hoses are in order so from the front the first is the Tank Breather(or if you have the Canister - the Canister Breather) followed by the Coolant Overflow followed by the Fuel Filler Overflow.
If you have the canister it's located down near the oil filter behind the lower Radiator(see attached diagram). The splice you are talking about I think you are referring to the coupling joining the small hose from the bottom of the tank to the larger breather hose.
Sounds like you have diagnosed some form of blockage within the Carbon Canister. Having the breather hose disconnected from the canister shouldn't cause any issue at all, the only other restriction could be caused by the common issue of lowering the tank from the maintenance position squashing the small breather hose - as per the discussions in this thread.
Hopefully the "chuff" sound you heard when you filled up was pressure escaping and not a vacuum! 
Cheers.
 
Canister.JPG.d0799d2780474ef6591ad6e32d6ffab2.JPG
Thank you Grum for the clarification, and helpful diagram.
On my bike, the small breather hose from the bottom of the tank comes down the left side of the bike, and splices to another same size small hose which heads down to the canister. I'll take a photo and post tomorrow.
So my only concern in disconnecting this line is if it has any affect on the other lines to the canister - such as changing any positive or negative pressure that may be required.


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8 hours ago, 4corsa said:

Thank you Grum for the clarification, and helpful diagram.
On my bike, the small breather hose from the bottom of the tank comes down the left side of the bike, and splices to another same size small hose which heads down to the canister. I'll take a photo and post tomorrow.
So my only concern in disconnecting this line is if it has any affect on the other lines to the canister - such as changing any positive or negative pressure that may be required.


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Hi 4corsa.

Need to clarify myself here regards the "chuff" sound you heard when opening the filler tank. A small amount of vacuum is required to overcome small spring tension on the tiny valve in the fuel cap. So it could be either very slight vacuum or positive pressure.

Have you downloaded the 8gen Service Manual ?

Having the hose disconnected as you've done shouldn't effect the ops of anything (apart from the fact that's it's illegal to mess with this stuff!!), you've pretty well confirmed that by the good test run you did.

The canister simply stores fuel vapour when the bike is stopped. When you start your bike the ECM will energise the Purge Valve (possibly for only a short burst) allowing the vapours to be sucked into the intake to be burnt.

 

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Hi 4corsa.
Need to clarify myself here regards the "chuff" sound you heard when opening the filler tank. A small amount of vacuum is required to overcome small spring tension on the tiny valve in the fuel cap. So it could be either very slight vacuum or positive pressure.
Have you downloaded the 8gen Service Manual ?
Having the hose disconnected as you've done shouldn't effect the ops of anything (apart from the fact that's it's illegal to mess with this stuff!!), you've pretty well confirmed that by the good test run you did.
The canister simply stores fuel vapour when the bike is stopped. When you start your bike the ECM will energise the Purge Valve (possibly for only a short burst) allowing the vapours to be sucked into the intake to be burnt.
 
Thanks again Grum.
Always wondered how they work - not a bad idea as long as they don't get clogged...
I have not yet downloaded the service manual - is there a free download somewhere? Otherwise I'll order a hardcopy, just saw one for $38.


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14 minutes ago, 4corsa said:

Thanks again Grum.
Always wondered how they work - not a bad idea as long as they don't get clogged...
I have not yet downloaded the service manual - is there a free download somewhere? Otherwise I'll order a hardcopy, just saw one for $38.


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Sure,  you can Download the Sevice Manual here. Just go to the HOME page, scroll down to the lower right section and you'll see the manual downloads.

Cheers.

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to confirm (if it wasn't clear already): 2014 models have the evap canister. pulled that leach off my baby just this afternoon-- as well as a bolt that the previous owner had used to block off the SAS -___-

 

AFAIK all you need to do to delete the canister is to block off the hose that goes to the throttle bodies (i did that at the solenoid connection) and reroute the long line from the tank down into the slot with the other drain hoses. i took the tank line right off the evap canister and looped it through the holder for the (now removed) canister drain line and back to the slot for the other two drain hoses on the bottom of the bike. did that since i wanted to be as non-destructive as possible with this--i'mma take it out for a long spin tomorrow and if i get any problems from this configuration i'll be sure to tell you all about it...

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50 minutes ago, TheLoneReader said:

to confirm (if it wasn't clear already): 2014 models have the evap canister. pulled that leach off my baby just this afternoon-- as well as a bolt that the previous owner had used to block off the SAS -___-

 

AFAIK all you need to do to delete the canister is to block off the hose that goes to the throttle bodies (i did that at the solenoid connection) and reroute the long line from the tank down into the slot with the other drain hoses. i took the tank line right off the evap canister and looped it through the holder for the (now removed) canister drain line and back to the slot for the other two drain hoses on the bottom of the bike. did that since i wanted to be as non-destructive as possible with this--i'mma take it out for a long spin tomorrow and if i get any problems from this configuration i'll be sure to tell you all about it...

 

You could simply just pull the electrical connector off the Purge Valve and not have to worry about blocking off hoses, also the ECM has no fault status for the Purge Valve - just a thought.

 

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to confirm (if it wasn't clear already): 2014 models have the evap canister. pulled that leach off my baby just this afternoon-- as well as a bolt that the previous owner had used to block off the SAS -___-
 
AFAIK all you need to do to delete the canister is to block off the hose that goes to the throttle bodies (i did that at the solenoid connection) and reroute the long line from the tank down into the slot with the other drain hoses. i took the tank line right off the evap canister and looped it through the holder for the (now removed) canister drain line and back to the slot for the other two drain hoses on the bottom of the bike. did that since i wanted to be as non-destructive as possible with this--i'mma take it out for a long spin tomorrow and if i get any problems from this configuration i'll be sure to tell you all about it...
That's great to hear TheLoneReader.
What would you guesstimate the weight is of everything you removed?

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46 minutes ago, 4corsa said:

That's great to hear TheLoneReader.
What would you guesstimate the weight is of everything you removed?

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Easy answer to that one = Stuff all, seriously though, it's probably not too much more weight than an oil filter at a guess! OK maybe an oil filter full of oil then:wacko:.

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