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HMWUMB!!! Help Me Wake Up My Bike...


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Hey everyone!  1994, 24k miles on the bike, completely stock except for a Delkevic pipe and a Ricks R/R.  

 

Had this bike for about 5 years now and gotten to know it fairly well - mechanically.... and for the most part, it's behaved.  Electrically, I think our relationship is just now getting started, unfortunately....  

 

Last rode the bike back in April after changing the oil and giving it a wash. My intention that day was to burn off the "treated" winter fuel in the tank.   After the wash, I put the key in the ignition and nothing - no lights on the dash, fuel pump, nothing. Tried it with the spare and it worked. Warmed up for a few minutes while I put on my gear and off I went. During the ride it rode strong, shifted well and no problems whatsoever... until I stopped to stretch my legs about 45 minutes into the ride. I put the key in and again, nothing; tried other key, nothing. Tried turning the handlebars side to side, thinking maybe a kink in the wire...nothing. The only thing that lives is the clock. Checked all the fuses on the spot, including the 30A at the starter relay - all good. Towed back to the house.  

 

I haven't had the time to tear into the bike until now. It's stripped naked, including the top fairing (headlight) open and tilted forward. I've been searching the net and this forum as best I could and tried to make as much sense as I can from the schematic in the service manual, but I'm afraid I am a bit limited here, so I'm hoping someone here can help me through this... I've gone through some connections, and they all seem good and clean, but I know I need to approach this in an organized and methodical manner so I don't get all frustrated too quick...  

 

With your help, I hope to learn how to better read, interpret and understand wiring diagrams from this thread and face the issue head on, just like I've been able to do with the mechanical things in the past. I refuse to take it to a shop and my only riding buddy is only good for riding, not wrenching!  From searching, I know that I need to start with a freshly charged battery, which I've got coming tomorrow in the mail (acid on the side). So I've got my service manual, a little multi meter and finally some time to put things right again and get back on the road.

 

What's my first step?

 

D

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OK - sounds like you got the good battery and a multimeter. - Time to do "The Drill" as below.  - Write down the numbers!

 

GL

 

 

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12 minutes ago, mello dude said:

OK - sounds like you got the good battery and a multimeter. - Time to do "The Drill" as below.  - Write down the numbers!

 

GL

 

 

Thank you for that, but I'm not sure how it will help me in my situation.  The first step is to "fire it up".  I can't get to the first step because I have no power when I turn the key on...  

 

 

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check both ends of the main ground wire for corrosion or loose bolt.  unplug the connection between ignition switch and wiring harness, looking for corrosion, then clean the contyactys.

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check both ends of the main ground wire for corrosion or loose bolt.  unplug the connection between ignition switch and wiring harness, looking for corrosion, then clean the contyactys.

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check both ends of the main ground wire for corrosion or loose bolt.  unplug the connection between ignition switch and wiring harness, looking for corrosion, then clean the contyactys.
Squirrelman,

I checked the main ground wire and it looks secure and clean. Unplugged connection at ignition switch and this is what it looks like.. what's the best way to clean this light oxidation? Could this be enough to be causing all this trouble?50f82b17d956f5a3331e51caf92d6d66.jpg72f3689b33cce5cf091d81daff7ef0af.jpgb83e8282974a92376c2c394a6c902dc4.jpg

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Hi db94750.

Not having any experience with a 4th gen. But from everything you've said and checked, I wonder if your ignition switch is intermittent. The plug contacts in your picture look good, you could try a squirt of CRC 2-26 or WD40 on the contacts and re-fit. 

 

The basic starting point is to establish that you have a solid 12v (with reference to ground - ) at the ignition switch and that with ignition switch to ON you get that 12v come through the switch to supply all the other electrical services, Refer to your circuit diagram.

 

The plug in your hand appears to be the Ignition switch side (5 wires) make sure of this, see attached diagram. You could place your multimeter in buzzer or continuity mode across to two Red wire terminals and check your switch out, turning it on and off many times ensuring you get continuity every time its ON. On the bike side (3 wire female side) you should have 12v at the RED wire all the time, it comes direct from your battery. The Ignition switch when ON joins this 12v from the RED to the RED/Bl wire.

 

Your clock has its own permanent 12v source NOT through the Ignition Switch.

 

For everything to be dead except the clock, assuming your grounds are all good, battery connections are tight and good, the main fuses are good, seems to really point to the Ignition Switch itself.

Also - If your Neutral Light is NOT on during the fault state (and of course you are definitely in Neutral), this would also point to the Ignition Switch being faulty.

 

Good Luck.

Cheers.

Grum.

 

Switch.JPG

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I would have to agree with Grum, sounds like the switch. I don't have access to the drawings at the moment but you could possibly wire up an quick test setup with a momentary switch if you don't want to just spend the money on a new one.

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If it starts fine with the new battery, my money is on the voltage regulator being farked.

 

And while your fuses look fine, swap them (one by one) for a brand new one.

 

All connector are clean (incl starter relay?), but are they "truly connected" as in all the way in and all females look tight?

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Hi db94750.

Have a look at the attached Ignition System Block diagram. A thing to notice here is. When the bike is faulty and you are in Neutral - Is the Neutral Light ON? If its NOT on then you can discount any problem with the KILL Switch. You can clearly see the action of the Ignition switch between the Red and R/Bl wires. If the Neutral Light is ON and your aren't getting any start, you could suspect the KILL Switch.

Any fault with the Ignition Switch will have a direct effect on killing the Neutral Light and the Side Stand Light if you have it. (As well as killing your bike!).

Cheers.

Ignition.JPG

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OK, quick update: 

 

While waiting for the new battery to arrive, I stripped the fairings off and got to work cleaning the main connections like the main ground, polished/cleaned the battery terminal connections. 

 

Got access to the ignition plug coming off the main harness and checked continuity from the R (red) wire terminal to the R/Bl (red, black tracer) wire terminal, with the Key in the ignition switch to the "on" position.  No continuity...  

 

So I decided to spray some DEOX-IT into the ignition barrel and moved the key back and forth a bit as per the directions on the can.   I also cleaned up the connector plug to the ignition switch. This was all done last night, as I wanted to give all the internals enough time to dry.  I Also charged up my new battery, so I know I'm starting with a fresh power source.  

 

Today, got the battery in the tray, plugged everything back up, turned the key to "on" position and...nothing.  I got a piece of wire and jumped the connection at the plug (harness side) from the R wire to the R/Bl thus bypassing the ignition and sure enough, all the normal dash lights came on, fuel pump came alive, and I was able to fire the bike up and warm it up a bit, at least to cycle some fuel through the carbs... all running well. 

 

So, can we say the culprit is the ignition switch? What are my options going forward? Is it fixable or swap out for another? New or used? And where from? 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

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Had this issue on my 4th GEN. Remove ignition switch base, 2 screws and you can disassemble and clean contacts. Watch out for small springs under contacts. I think someone here directed me to a ST1100/1300 forum for detailed instructions and pictures. Did mine about a year ago no problem since then.  Or you can buy a new one about $50 last I checked but you have all ready done the hard part and have everything apart. Good luck you can do this. 

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21 minutes ago, db94750 said:

OK, quick update: 

 

While waiting for the new battery to arrive, I stripped the fairings off and got to work cleaning the main connections like the main ground, polished/cleaned the battery terminal connections. 

 

Got access to the ignition plug coming off the main harness and checked continuity from the R (red) wire terminal to the R/Bl (red, black tracer) wire terminal, with the Key in the ignition switch to the "on" position.  No continuity...  

 

So I decided to spray some DEOX-IT into the ignition barrel and moved the key back and forth a bit as per the directions on the can.   I also cleaned up the connector plug to the ignition switch. This was all done last night, as I wanted to give all the internals enough time to dry.  I Also charged up my new battery, so I know I'm starting with a fresh power source.  

 

Today, got the battery in the tray, plugged everything back up, turned the key to "on" position and...nothing.  I got a piece of wire and jumped the connection at the plug (harness side) from the R wire to the R/Bl thus bypassing the ignition and sure enough, all the normal dash lights came on, fuel pump came alive, and I was able to fire the bike up and warm it up a bit, at least to cycle some fuel through the carbs... all running well. 

 

So, can we say the culprit is the ignition switch? What are my options going forward? Is it fixable or swap out for another? New or used? And where from? 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Perfect troubleshooting. It seems as though the actual switch is obsolete, so new appears to not be an option. eBay or disassemble the base and clean as Burns45 mentioned.

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4 hours ago, db94750 said:

OK, quick update: 

 

While waiting for the new battery to arrive, I stripped the fairings off and got to work cleaning the main connections like the main ground, polished/cleaned the battery terminal connections. 

 

Got access to the ignition plug coming off the main harness and checked continuity from the R (red) wire terminal to the R/Bl (red, black tracer) wire terminal, with the Key in the ignition switch to the "on" position.  No continuity...  

 

So I decided to spray some DEOX-IT into the ignition barrel and moved the key back and forth a bit as per the directions on the can.   I also cleaned up the connector plug to the ignition switch. This was all done last night, as I wanted to give all the internals enough time to dry.  I Also charged up my new battery, so I know I'm starting with a fresh power source.  

 

Today, got the battery in the tray, plugged everything back up, turned the key to "on" position and...nothing.  I got a piece of wire and jumped the connection at the plug (harness side) from the R wire to the R/Bl thus bypassing the ignition and sure enough, all the normal dash lights came on, fuel pump came alive, and I was able to fire the bike up and warm it up a bit, at least to cycle some fuel through the carbs... all running well. 

 

So, can we say the culprit is the ignition switch? What are my options going forward? Is it fixable or swap out for another? New or used? And where from? 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Hi db94750.

Well done you have successfully diagnosed a faulty Ignition Switch as suspected. Personally, trying to clean and rebuild the switch would be a Last resort.

This switch unlike other switches on your bike is critical to its operation as you've discovered, reliabity is TOP priority. Do your best to source a NEW switch body.

High switching currents of this switch may have burnt the contacts beyond repair. Also this switch switches power to your cooling fan system (the Blue Wire) another critical system you need to know is working properly.

Good luck sourcing a New switch.

Failing that, rebuild/re-lube the switch, and for a backup/emergency situation, make up a good 3 terminal shorting link you could keep with you on the bike, if the switch plays up, insert the link for the Red, Red/Bi and Blue wires, you'll be up and running again.

Cheers

Grum.

 

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Ok, so I pulled the ignition switch by undoing the two torx holding it in place. Upon closer inspection at the base of the ignition, I saw the R/Bl wire had come loose from the solder. The strange thing is, I decided to check continuity with key on between R wire base (solder) and R/Bl (solder) and got nothing. If you notice the brass rivets on the photos - THAT'S where the continuity was... I'm left scratching my head at this a bit now...8613192e29b53d7e35147e54cbff5fce.jpg9cde13143ab416e258bb593f6efa2b7b.jpg8e8c4ebeea6d3efc13b7a21de5c65735.jpg

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for a backup/emergency situation, make up a good 3 terminal shorting link you could keep with you on the bike, if the switch plays up, insert the link for the Red, Red/Bi and Blue wires, you'll be up and running again.

 


This sounds like a good idea

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Good find. You need to properly solder that wire back into position, once done re-check continuity at the connector between the Red and the Red/Bi and the blue. The switch contact shorts all three wires together. Operate the switch numerous times and ensure continuity, if it's switching O.K then your issue may have only been the broken solder joint. If you have Any issues with continuity you still have a stuffed Ignition Switch.

 

Forget the unused brass contacts, the switching configuration and current capacity of them are unknown.

 

Best thing is to just re-solder the wire, connect everything back up, turn your ignition on and off a dozen times, if lights and everything work normally, you can safely say it's fixed. If not = stuffed Ignition Switch.

 

Good Luck.

Cheers.

P.S Great photos you've posted regards connector and switch makes it easy to see what's going on.

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Alright, so I've got the ignition issue sorted... I decided to service the ignition switch and what follows are rough steps for a 4th generation, 1994 VFR750F.... I didn't find anything when I searched, so I'm hoping I can help someone out in the future.

First, remove the security torx. There are 3 of them. I didn't have the special bit, so I used a Dremel to slice slots into them and carefully removed them.
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To remove the guts, there are two tabs on either side of the housing gently pry these apart while pushing up with your finger from the bottom of housing, on the white collar...

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All in all it's not a very hard job. Just be organized and clean in your woksplace because there are small parts. Also, before buttoning everything back up, test it on the bike first. I did continuity check off bike and then physically plugged it into harness to test it out. I think it's better than factory now.

 

I'd like to thank everyone who helped me out in this thread and who even reached out to me personally to offer their help.  I figured a little walk-through would be the least I could do to give back to the community that's always been there to help when I needed it!

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