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Engine cutting out randomly


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My '02 nearly left me stranded yesterday coming back from work.  I was riding in the city at moderate speed when engine cut off completely without warning. 

 

I pulled over by the curb, put her back in neutral and tried to restart: the starter would crank but the engine wouldn't start at first.  That's when I noticed the ABS light was flashing.  I was about to call a tow truck when I tried to start again and this time it did. 

 

I rode for about 5 minutes before it cut off again.  I noticed the fuel injection warning light coming on, but it went away after riding for a bit.  So I managed to start again and then rode for about 10-15 minutes before it happened one last time (about 5 blocks from home), then I made it home.    

 

I'm obviously going to take it to a mechanic early next week, but just wondering if any others have had a similar problem, and what was the issue.  Except for the ABS light flashing, all other conditions seemed normal: Engine temperature, oil / coolant levels, etc.  The bike is an '02 with just a bit over 67,000 km on the clock.  According to the maintenance log I keep (and the service manual) my spark plugs should still be good for another 15,000 km (I replaced them all 20,000 km ago).  The only maintenance I've skipped is the second valve clearance check (7,000 km overdue) but only because it's a very expensive job to get done.  For everything else I've followed the service manual like gospel.

 

If you have any idea what this could be, let me know!

 

EDIT: Forgot to mention that this happened over a 20-ish km commute.

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Sudden shut-down, FI warning light, ABS light...these are all random electrical faults. My guess is you have a bad earth block. Time to pull the bodywork off, disconnect and re-connect all connectors, clean off corrosion and add dielectric grease as you go. Check the battery earth strap is tight. The earth block on the 6G is on the harness under the front cowl right side IIRC, a small rectangle taped into the main loom. I have read about these failing (corroding then melting) before.

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My quickstand position sensor actually felt like this fault... I went mad many times until i realised that the tiny oring on it was gone and dirt went on the contacts and caused the fault.
Anyway as they said before, sounds electrical. The quickstand is very easy to check and disable for a while to prove that it was the culprit.

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Thanks for the replies guys. 

 

At first I did suspect the kickstand switch too, but then I thought the starter wouldn't crank at all if it was the cause, no?  And it wouldn't explain the ABS light flashing on the dashboard.  Might be a cocktail of electrical gremlins, as Terry pointed out.

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You might have early signs of stator failure. Kentucky fried stator. Early 6th gens are famous for that.

 

Except your battery doesn't seem to be dying. Which would be the case if the alternator is starting to fry.

 

So it is very possibly the front wiring harness common ground connector. There's a thread of mine on here somewhere on that. I'll try to find a link.

 

 

 

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  • 2 weeks later...
On 8/10/2017 at 8:06 PM, Terry said:

Sudden shut-down, FI warning light, ABS light...these are all random electrical faults. My guess is you have a bad earth block. Time to pull the bodywork off, disconnect and re-connect all connectors, clean off corrosion and add dielectric grease as you go. Check the battery earth strap is tight. The earth block on the 6G is on the harness under the front cowl right side IIRC, a small rectangle taped into the main loom. I have read about these failing (corroding then melting) before.

 

I wouldn't use dielectric grease - it does not conduct electricity.

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Correct but it will prevent moisture and corrosion in connectors, which is the likely root cause of the electrical problem.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

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If you're relying on the goop to conduct the electricity, you're doing something wrong!

 

Ciao,

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OK I'm starting to sound defensive now. To be clear in my post I suggested that the fault was likely caused by corrosion in connectors, that a fix would involve cleaning off the corrosion and then applying dielectric grease. If a root cause for a failure is corrosion leading to high resistance/heating, then restoring bare metal contact and adding a preventative coating to stop it coming back sounds like a sound strategy to me at least. It is what I have done on my high mileage ST1100 with great success. YMMV

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Yes, you are.  :happy:

 

I was responding to Bigbeam's comment above yours.  Electricity is best conducted by good metal-to-metal contact, free from corrosion caused by the environment.  (I agree with you 100%.)

 

Ciao,

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I was set on taking her to the shop today, having left work early enough to make it in time before they close...but I didn't get very far.  I didn't leave the garage, in fact.  When pushing the starter button, the engine cranks once, followed by a series of quick audible clicks.  So it looks like something is draining my battery.  I mean, it did  stay in the garage for about 2 weeks, but that seems like a short period of time for a battery to drop below the point where it can start the bike.  I'll put my battery on the charger and try again next week.  :(

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3 hours ago, JZH said:

Yes, you are.  :happy:

 

I was responding to Bigbeam's comment above yours.  Electricity is best conducted by good metal-to-metal contact, free from corrosion caused by the environment.  (I agree with you 100%.)

 

Ciao,

I'll just slink back into my corner now...

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14 hours ago, francois_payen said:

I was set on taking her to the shop today, having left work early enough to make it in time before they close...but I didn't get very far.  I didn't leave the garage, in fact.  When pushing the starter button, the engine cranks once, followed by a series of quick audible clicks.  So it looks like something is draining my battery.  I mean, it did  stay in the garage for about 2 weeks, but that seems like a short period of time for a battery to drop below the point where it can start the bike.  I'll put my battery on the charger and try again next week.  :(

I've had similar in my 5th Gen, but without the ABS light since I don't have ABS. I did have my R/R die and take my battery with it. 

Load test the battery after it's charged. It may show full voltage but not have any cranking amps. Then start in on the various stator and Reg/Reg tests. RoadsterCycle.com has a page of YouTube links to various tests including a very helpful Reg/Rec test. Plenty of threads detailing stator tests here on VFRD

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  • 4 weeks later...

So, more electrical woes...

 

Got my bike back Friday: Their diagnostic was the R/R was done, so it was replaced. 

 

Went out on a little trip yesterday, at some point on the highway I felt like the RPMs had taken a brief plunge, but it felt like a millisecond only so I thought it must've been my imagination playing tricks on me.  I rode for a good 2 hours without issues.  I stopped for lunch, then got back on.  About 5 minutes later the engine died and wouldn't start (starter would crank, but engine never fired up). 

 

I managed to pull over in a parking lot, tried the starter button several times - no dice.  I turned off the ignition switch and turned it back on: The familiar sound of the fuel pump priming could not be heard.  Tried this several times: Dead quiet.

 

I have the Canadian equivalent of a AAA membership, so I call them up and we load my bike on a tow truck.  Luckily there was a Honda dealership nearby where I've had some work done before, so we dropped it off there.  After unloading my bike from the truck, just for sh!ts and giggles, I put the key back on, and turned on the ignition switch - the pump could be heard again.  Hit the starter and the engine started right away.  I took a bus back home and will call the dealership on Monday morning.  I could be wrong but this looks to me like there is something wrong with my fuel pump - like it shuts down when it gets too hot, which might explain why it was working fine out on the highway when there is plenty of cooling happening, and it fails on me in city traffic.  I could be dead wrong but I've had the very same issue with a car before.

 

 

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21 hours ago, francois_payen said:

So, more electrical woes...

 

Got my bike back Friday: Their diagnostic was the R/R was done, so it was replaced. 

 

Went out on a little trip yesterday, at some point on the highway I felt like the RPMs had taken a brief plunge, but it felt like a millisecond only so I thought it must've been my imagination playing tricks on me.  I rode for a good 2 hours without issues.  I stopped for lunch, then got back on.  About 5 minutes later the engine died and wouldn't start (starter would crank, but engine never fired up). 

 

I managed to pull over in a parking lot, tried the starter button several times - no dice.  I turned off the ignition switch and turned it back on: The familiar sound of the fuel pump priming could not be heard.  Tried this several times: Dead quiet.

 

I have the Canadian equivalent of a AAA membership, so I call them up and we load my bike on a tow truck.  Luckily there was a Honda dealership nearby where I've had some work done before, so we dropped it off there.  After unloading my bike from the truck, just for sh!ts and giggles, I put the key back on, and turned on the ignition switch - the pump could be heard again.  Hit the starter and the engine started right away.  I took a bus back home and will call the dealership on Monday morning.  I could be wrong but this looks to me like there is something wrong with my fuel pump - like it shuts down when it gets too hot, which might explain why it was working fine out on the highway when there is plenty of cooling happening, and it fails on me in city traffic.  I could be dead wrong but I've had the very same issue with a car before.

 

 

You have too many random issues here. Do as Terry said, check out the earth block and suggest you solder all connections in the earth block together. Make sure battery connections are good and tight. Measure your battery charge voltage with engine running should be around 14.5volts. 

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Alright, so Terry guessed it right.

 

I called Garage #2 this morning and explained what happened, specifically suggested they check the earth block connector among other things.  They left me a message late afternoon to say they found the connector all melted, and that they re-did all the "wiring and the soldering" - they're closed now but I'll call tomorrow to ask for more details.  Sounds like they've applied a similar fix than what is described in the thread mentioned earlier.  So I guess garage #1 checked the R/R first, found it to be faulty, replaced it and stopped right there instead of investigating further.

 

Now, with a brand new R/R and a new earth block connector, she should be good for another ten years, right?  

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Found this thread very helpful and enlightening, towards the similar thread I just started.

 

To my utmost happiness and excitement, Terry contributed.  Trust that man without fault (no pun). 

Sounds like I know what I'll be doing next weekend.  Now, to google earth block and get this dumb, deer-in-the-headlight look off my face.

Gotta love the anonymity of the internet.  Ya'll can't see me  ..  ..  ..  ..  oops.  You just did

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A common misconception on cleaning / anti-oxidant of electrical connections. Dielectric grease (I have used an aerosol spray)  keeps moisture out of electrical connections and can be used as a cleaning agent. 

Ox-Gard Anti-Oxidant Compound contains prime grade zinc and is formulated with metallic zinc to create a compound that enhances electrical and thermal conductivity which is used on high power crimp connections and stud bolt mountings.

 

I have been told to use the dielectric stuff to clean up corroded connections. Then apply Ox-gard to the connection to keep out moisture that can cause oxidation.  

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  • 7 months later...
On 9/18/2017 at 3:07 PM, francois_payen said:

Alright, so Terry guessed it right.

 

I called Garage #2 this morning and explained what happened, specifically suggested they check the earth block connector among other things.  They left me a message late afternoon to say they found the connector all melted, and that they re-did all the "wiring and the soldering" - they're closed now but I'll call tomorrow to ask for more details.  Sounds like they've applied a similar fix than what is described in the thread mentioned earlier.  So I guess garage #1 checked the R/R first, found it to be faulty, replaced it and stopped right there instead of investigating further.

 

Now, with a brand new R/R and a new earth block connector, she should be good for another ten years, right?  

I'm noticing the same/similar issue to yours.  Last year I noticed that I had my engine randomly cut out.  The shop replaced the battery and R/R.  I still experienced the problem.  While on a road trip I had this happen and had BCAA (i.e. AAA) tow me to a shop.  The thing I noticed was that my fuel injector did not prime.  After some fiddling around I was able to get it to start.  I'm pretty sure it was the kickstand switch.  After this incident I have not yet experienced this again.  But I should replace the kickstand switch.

 

Fast forward to 2 days ago when I insured my bike.  The first day riding home from work, the engine randomly cut out on me.  Luckily I was able to pull over to the side of the road.  I tried starting, and while it would crank, it wouldn't start.  I did notice the FI light on.  After a few tries it did start and I was able to ride home.  I think this is not because of the kickstand switch because if that caused it then I don't think it would crank at all.  The fuel pump wouldn't prime.  The next morning while riding to work the same thing happened.  Again I was able to restart and ride to work.

 

I'm wondering is the fix  to clean off the corrosion and apply dielectric grease, or is it to re-do wiring.  Is this on all connections, or where would I look?

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This sounds very much like what I experienced last summer. 

 

Have the earth block connector checked - the crimps on the wires corrode over time, which explains the bad/intermittent contact and caused my connector to overheat and melt.  The fix is fairly unexpensive - all they need to do is clip the wires on each side of the connector and solder them instead.  It solved the problem for me.

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On 4/27/2018 at 4:18 PM, RiceRocket said:

I'm noticing the same/similar issue to yours.  Last year I noticed that I had my engine randomly cut out.  The shop replaced the battery and R/R.  I still experienced the problem.  While on a road trip I had this happen and had BCAA (i.e. AAA) tow me to a shop.  The thing I noticed was that my fuel injector did not prime.  After some fiddling around I was able to get it to start.  I'm pretty sure it was the kickstand switch.  After this incident I have not yet experienced this again.  But I should replace the kickstand switch.

 

Fast forward to 2 days ago when I insured my bike.  The first day riding home from work, the engine randomly cut out on me.  Luckily I was able to pull over to the side of the road.  I tried starting, and while it would crank, it wouldn't start.  I did notice the FI light on.  After a few tries it did start and I was able to ride home.  I think this is not because of the kickstand switch because if that caused it then I don't think it would crank at all.  The fuel pump wouldn't prime.  The next morning while riding to work the same thing happened.  Again I was able to restart and ride to work.

 

I'm wondering is the fix  to clean off the corrosion and apply dielectric grease, or is it to re-do wiring.  Is this on all connections, or where would I look?

 

Did you cycle the key off and on at all? I had an issue where it would cut out and not restart until I cycle the key off and on. The starter would crank, but not fire. Turned out to be the BAS (bank angle sensor), but I think my situation is very unique. If yours will start without cycling the key, then it is not the BAS.

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On 4/29/2018 at 5:20 AM, KevCarver said:

 

Did you cycle the key off and on at all? I had an issue where it would cut out and not restart until I cycle the key off and on. The starter would crank, but not fire. Turned out to be the BAS (bank angle sensor), but I think my situation is very unique. If yours will start without cycling the key, then it is not the BAS.

No, I didn't cycle the key off and on.

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