Member Contributer Rectaltronics Posted July 23, 2017 Member Contributer Share Posted July 23, 2017 2 hours ago, fink said: And your point is? We are both saying the same thing. Exactly. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Member Contributer Rectaltronics Posted July 24, 2017 Member Contributer Share Posted July 24, 2017 Look, the problem here is the chasm between theory and application/practice. The most important and correct thing that Lee said was to find a competent wrench if your throttle is binding or changing during bar movement (and you can't figure it out on your own). The rest of this is becoming a train wreck. The problem is that no matter how "correct" the cable is routed on a motorcycle, the radius of the cable changes in the vicinity of where it curves down, when you move the bars from lock to lock. And it's not just one radius that is affected. There's the inner radius of the spiral jacketing, the outer radius of the spiral jacketing, and between that the radius of the cable inside. The way the cable works depends on a relationship between that spiral jacketing and the cable, and that relationship is affected when the radius of a curved section of cable changes, so that in turn affects free play. It affects throttle operation too but in typical riding scenarios, not enough to be noticeable because bar movements are typically small except when you're idling. One of the reasons that has to happen - the change of overall cable radius - is because of an unavoidable mismatch in the axis of rotation about the headstock. And to some degree also that the cable routing is actually too fixed at points that are too close in proximity. As for the aspect of axis, think of how most drive chains get tighter and looser depending on how the rear wheel suspension is or isn't compressed. It's because the swingarm pivot on most bikes isn't on the same axis as the front (countershaft) drive sprocket. Ignoring ride-by-wire, there are some clever designs seen on some custom bikes that help with reducing or eliminating that change in cable radius by routing the cables inside frame and accessory tubes. But our 8th Gen VFRs are not examples of this. Unfortunately the Honda service manuals are not very clear about this anomaly except to the extent that they do say to make sure the throttle free play is within specifications with the bars turned both ways, which implies that it is in fact normal for free play to change as the bars move. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rsparky Posted July 24, 2017 Share Posted July 24, 2017 ^^^ what he said. Lol. Ideally the tension on the jacket will always be the same as the cable. But practically, never the case. However, with proper adjustment, the butterflies only move when you want them to. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jangermann Posted August 12, 2017 Author Share Posted August 12, 2017 This is my problem. Is yours the same? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Member Contributer Rectaltronics Posted August 12, 2017 Member Contributer Share Posted August 12, 2017 2 minutes ago, jangermann said: This is my problem. Is yours the same? Not sure which problem you're referring to. My bike doesn't make farting noises when I turn the bars. And I haven't [yet] abused myself to the degree that I require a cramp buster. If on the other hand you're talking about the small differences in throttle free play, you might have failed to notice the last two posts from July 23rd. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rsparky Posted August 12, 2017 Share Posted August 12, 2017 So long as it doesn't get gas while running and you turn the bars, it's fine. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jangermann Posted August 12, 2017 Author Share Posted August 12, 2017 27 minutes ago, Rectaltronics said: Not sure which problem you're referring to. My bike doesn't make farting noises when I turn the bars. And I haven't [yet] abused myself to the degree that I require a cramp buster. If on the other hand you're talking about the small differences in throttle free play, you might have failed to notice the last two posts from July 23rd. Well this it my first bike where there is differencen in the freeplay. Yes we talk freeplay here ;-) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jangermann Posted August 12, 2017 Author Share Posted August 12, 2017 Just solved the problem. Removed the throttle cables from two cabelholders and now the curve on the cable is more natural. Now there is no difference between left and right. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Member Contributer Grum Posted August 15, 2017 Member Contributer Share Posted August 15, 2017 On 13/08/2017 at 4:23 AM, jangermann said: Just solved the problem. Removed the throttle cables from two cabelholders and now the curve on the cable is more natural. Now there is no difference between left and right. That's a good find Jangermann, as long as the cables don't rub up against anything all should be good. Might give this a go on my bike. Cheers. Grum. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jangermann Posted August 15, 2017 Author Share Posted August 15, 2017 Just a follow up. Took the bike to the Honda dealer and tested on a brand new VFR, its the same problem. The dealer told me that they often remove the cable from one or two guides to eliminate the problem. The dealer also had two RC46, and I could see that the cable guides I removed the cable from, not even excist on a RC46. Only thing I did was to push the lower cable guide so it dont rub cables between the guide and fork legs. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Audible Posted August 15, 2017 Share Posted August 15, 2017 The issue is the handle bar spacers I can see in the picture. When you have the spacers fitted, it reduces the amount of slack you have in the throttle cable between left and right. If you take the spacers out and then check the free play between left and right, you will find you can adjust the cable free play up tighter before it causes a problem. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jangermann Posted August 15, 2017 Author Share Posted August 15, 2017 1 hour ago, Audible said: The issue is the handle bar spacers I can see in the picture. When you have the spacers fitted, it reduces the amount of slack you have in the throttle cable between left and right. If you take the spacers out and then check the free play between left and right, you will find you can adjust the cable free play up tighter before it causes a problem. I was waiting for this one :-) No the spacers make no difference I have tried with and without. As wrote before I was trying a brand new VFR at the local dealer this weekende, with no spacers, but with the excact same problem. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Audible Posted August 15, 2017 Share Posted August 15, 2017 Well that's interesting. One of the first "mods" I did to my VFR when I bought it was fit the 24mm Motopump spacers. With them fitted I noticed that with the steering turned, it would tighten the throttle cable to a point where it was very slightly increasing engine revs and I opened the throttle play up a couple of mil to solve it. Out of interest, in your pic, you said you released the cables from two cable holders, as indicated with the red arrows. What about the third cable holder closest to the throttle itself, right at the top of your pic. Did you release the cable from that holder as well or is the cable thru that holder? I'm just wondering if my throttle cable is routed correctly or different to yours. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jangermann Posted August 15, 2017 Author Share Posted August 15, 2017 Yes the cabels is still thru the holder closest to the throttle. I really think it is a bad idea to remove them from this holder since it will put a lot of stress to the cabel ends. Removing the cables where the arrows is completly solved the problem. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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