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First Service: 10W-50 Oil?


joecbr

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I just had the 600 mile service completed on my 2014 VFR 800.  I asked for full synthetic oil.  The service invoice says they used 10W-50 Golden Spectro.  The manual calls for 10W-30.  I'm annoyed.  Should I be?

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Absolutely, 50 wt oil has no place in a water cooled engine with tight tolerances IMO. If it were my bike I would not have accepted it with 10W-50 oil, synthetic or not. And I would return it and have them do it right.

 

I run 10W-40 in my '99 and wouldn't even think of running a 10W-50, or a 20W-50 weight oil. Of course this is strictly my opinion about it. Many years ago I installed a temperature gauge in my air cooled Suzuki, and noticed a definite temperature

increase when running a 20W-50 motor oil.

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They should have used the weight the manual called for, and nothing else.


Also, why did they not use Honda brand oil??? If I am going through the effort of paying a dealer $200 for a 600 mile service, aka oil change and them b.s.ing you about anything else they did, then they better use Honda branded oil!

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Why would you ask for full synthetic on the first 600 mile service?  You should always stick with factory recommended oil for the first few thousand miles (if a vehicle comes from the factory with synthetic, then use synthetic...the VFR does NOT).  I would go pick up some Honda GN4 10W-30 (which is what the manual calls for) and do a quick drain and refill.  No need to change the filter again.  Then on your next oil change (I do mine every 4k miles instead of the 8k the manual calls for) you can put in some Honda HP4 synthetic blend...again, 10W-30.  Then you can go to your preferred brand of full synthetic on the next change. 

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best to change to synthetic oil only after the engine has done a few thousand miles of bedding -in.  :wink:

 

#50 wt might be ok for a 100,000 mile + VFR ridden in a hot climate, but never a new one.  :unsure:

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Thanks for the advice.  I'm going to switch to 10W-40 synthetic tomorrow.  Guess I wasted $45 on oil.  I'm not going to ride 60 miles back to the dealer to argue with them. 

 

I would like to clarify one issue on weight of the oil.  10W-50 oil does not contain any 50 wt oil.  It is 10 wt.  The 50 refers to the relative viscosity of the oil at elevated temperatures.  All oil thins out when it is heated.  The 50 means the 10 wt oil will thin out at elevated temperatures as if it were a 50wt oil (i.e., it will not decrease as much as straight 10 wt oil.)  Put another way, there is no heavy 50 wt oil in the crank case.  The viscosity of the 10W-50 oil will decrease when heated and will never exceed the viscosity of the 10 wt oil at ambient temperature.

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Well, you're on the right track, but you're off a bit with your explanation of oil viscosity. 10W-50 oil isn't 10 weight oil. That W stands for Winter, and it means the oil will flow at a certain viscosity at a certain temperature. As far as the second number: "the lower the number the thinner the oil, a 30 oil is thinner than a 40 oil at 100 degC". A 50 oil will be thicker at 100 deg C.

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8 hours ago, joecbr said:

I just had the 600 mile service completed on my 2014 VFR 800.  I asked for full synthetic oil.  The service invoice says they used 10W-50 Golden Spectro.  The manual calls for 10W-30.  I'm annoyed.  Should I be?

Yep too right I'd be bloody annoyed, it's a new engine and 10-50w doesn't meet the viscosity set by Honda. It might be a different story if your bike is out of warranty and done 50,000 mile. What next? Perhaps they'll change ya brake and clutch fluid DOT 2 might be ok when it should be DOT 4 etc, etc. If it doesn't meet or exceed the Honda spec you have a Strong argument, it's your bike you want it done right! Makes me angry when service agents take liberties like this.

Do as DriverDave suggested go buy the correct stuff, drain it then refill, it's easy and you won't need to remove any fairings as you won't be changing the oil filter. I wouldn't go back to the service agent as you would have no idea as to what they would put in your bike.

Thats my 2 cents worth!.

Cheers.

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2 hours ago, joecbr said:

Thanks for the advice.  I'm going to switch to 10W-40 synthetic tomorrow.  Guess I wasted $45 on oil.  I'm not going to ride 60 miles back to the dealer to argue with them. 

 

I would like to clarify one issue on weight of the oil.  10W-50 oil does not contain any 50 wt oil.  It is 10 wt.  The 50 refers to the relative viscosity of the oil at elevated temperatures.  All oil thins out when it is heated.  The 50 means the 10 wt oil will thin out at elevated temperatures as if it were a 50wt oil (i.e., it will not decrease as much as straight 10 wt oil.)  Put another way, there is no heavy 50 wt oil in the crank case.  The viscosity of the 10W-50 oil will decrease when heated and will never exceed the viscosity of the 10 wt oil at ambient temperature.

Don't go back there, however if you have the receipt, call them, ask for them to check their copy of receipt and explain that "the oil" does not meet Honda's standards and ask for a refund- oil $ labour 

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Well the deed is done.  Just removed 3 quarts ($45 worth) of 10W-50 and replaced it with Honda GN 10W-30 new formula for $6 a quart.  Just noticed the next recommended oil change interval is 8000 miles.  That's way too long for me.  I'll do the next change at 4000.  Will revisit the synthetic issue then.  Thanks for the input.

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1 minute ago, joecbr said:

Well the deed is done.  Just removed 3 quarts ($45 worth) of 10W-50 and replaced it with Honda GN 10W-30 new formula for $6 a quart.  Just noticed the next recommended oil change interval is 8000 miles.  That's way too long for me.  I'll do the next change at 4000.  Will revisit the synthetic issue then.  Thanks for the input.

 

My plan is the following.

 

600mi - standard Honda GN4

4000 mi - standard Honda GN4

8000 mi synthetic Honda HP4S

8k service intervals from then on

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First oil change...600 miles honda oil...2000 miles amsoil synthetic. Seriously, how many years do you actually own a bike befor ya get the itch for a new one...had my  92  ST1100 for 12 years, had synthetics in after the first 800 miles, oil leaks were non existent 

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I'm confused as to why synthetic with low miles would be worse for the engine than conventional. I used HP4S at my first oil change and Motul synthetic every time after that. No oil leaks, no oil consumption, runs as strong as any other VFR.

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1 hour ago, jhenley17 said:

I'm confused as to why synthetic with low miles would be worse for the engine than conventional. I used HP4S at my first oil change and Motul synthetic every time after that. No oil leaks, no oil consumption, runs as strong as any other VFR.

Right?...it's a myth...years ago synthetic were suspect in the deterioration of rubber gaskets and seals...that is no longer the case, but like the 3000 mile oil change...some myths never die.  Unless there is someone from Honda who designs engines that can speak on the subject, my money is on full synthetics. 

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Depending on how you break in a engine, I go the route of run it like you plan to run it, has worked well for me. Point in case , wife and I both bought 2013 MINI coopers with turbos, I broke mine in hard, no red lines and no sustained rpm but no staying under 100 and lots of hard pulls, now at 30K my car only uses 1/8 qt in 7K miles , she is using 1/4 qt every 2K . I think my rings sealed better.

 

So on to my new VFR, just like my cars I want the metal parts out fast, so I changed my VFR at 300 miles with dino honda. Then at 750 I put in 1qt of full synth and 2 qts of dino , since honda does not offer a 10/30 semi si I made my own. I;m confident my rings are  sealed after 750 miles of normal hard running. SO putting synth blend to get some better protection at start up . Next oil change will be after a 2K+ run to Colorado next week at which time I will go to full synth. Thinking of going with T6 rotella .

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So when the 600 mile tune up happens, for those who do it themself. When changing the oil do you also change the oil filter? According to manual it shows that if you leave original filter in for the later oil change it needs only 3.1 qts. Compared to 3.3 qts if filter is changed.

 

I did not find anywhere in the manual stating if the filter needs to be replaced on the 600 mile oil change. 

 

Also how much of a PITA is changing the oil with no center stand?

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On a new bike, I would change the oil filter on the 1st 600 mile service. Just spend a few extra bucks in her for piece of mind.

Should be no problem changing oil on side stand. If the drain bolt is on the RHS, simply put her upright for the last few drops.

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1 hour ago, Tews19 said:

So when the 600 mile tune up happens, for those who do it themself. When changing the oil do you also change the oil filter? According to manual it shows that if you leave original filter in for the later oil change it needs only 3.1 qts. Compared to 3.3 qts if filter is changed.

 

I did not find anywhere in the manual stating if the filter needs to be replaced on the 600 mile oil change. 

 

Also how much of a PITA is changing the oil with no center stand?

 

Filter should be replaced at the 600mi change. 

 

The 600mi change should be the 'dirtiest' oil change your bike will see. All the particulates from the parts mating, etc, are all flowing around in the oil and in the filter.

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2 minutes ago, thtanner said:

 

Filter should be replaced at the 600mi change. 

 

The 600mi change should be the 'dirtiest' oil change your bike will see. All the particulates from the parts mating, etc, are all flowing around in the oil and in the filter.

 

 

I'm a bit anal. I always change the filter when In change the oil. I know it's not necessary but for a few quid it's not worth the hassle. I learnt that the hard way when my Viffer engine went south before I got round to an oil change. Now it's oil and filter everytime.

 

10W-50? Blimey that must be like treacle when cold.

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Yea the filter is under $10 for an OEM one, I can't imagine not swapping it. Not doing it just seems cheap, lazy, or both.

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if you don't want the engine running with ZERO oil pressure on starting, pour oil into the new filter by hand, over few minutes, up to about 1' below the hole.  you won't spill as much as you think, and no dry bearings.

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if you don't want the engine running with ZERO oil pressure on starting, pour oil into the new filter by hand, over few minutes, up to about 1' below the hole.  you won't spill as much as you think, and no dry bearings.

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7 hours ago, Woodie said:

10W-50? Blimey that must be like treacle when cold.

 

Nope ! Its viscosity falls within the 10 wt. range when cold, that's what 10W means.

 

Viscosity always decreases with temperature so 50 wt. hot is less viscous than 10 wt. cold.

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