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2010 VFR 1200 no start


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Hello everyone,

 

Fairly new to the forum as I have owned my VFR less than a year, but I am looking for some help with a no start issue.  I took it on a trip out to Colorado in the second week of June.  Trip was 3400 miles in total and it ran great the whole trip.  About a week after I got home I washed it up good in the driveway.  Bike started fine in the driveway after it was washed and I rode it back into the garage.  5 days later I wen to fire it up and it cranks over, but doesn't start.  Thought the battery might be dead so I charged it up, but still a no go.  I haven't had much time to dig into it since, but I plan to get after it next week and I'm looking for some suggestions on what to look at first?  Are there any known causes for a sudden no start?  Could something have gotten wet when it was washed?  When I turn the key to ignition, the dash lights all come on and I can hear the fuel pump priming.  The engine turns over smooth, just doesn't start.  Thanks for any help in advance.

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Can you smell fuel, primarily from the exhaust?

Pull a spark plug and check for spark.

Fuses

 

Just throwing things out there

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Finally had a chance to get the plastics and tank off last night.  It does smell like fuel coming from the exhaust but I would like to be more certain.  Is there a way I can test the fuel pump to make sure its it pumping with the tank off? On my old bike I used to set the tank next to the bike and pull the fuel line from the tank to the carbs and check to see if fuel was coming through the line while trying to start.  Same method should work with the VFR I would think, unless there is an easier way?

 

I did test the battery and it came back good.  I'm also going to try and pull a plug and check for spark.

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Dug in a little deeper tonight and checked a few things and have a few more questions. Starting with th "mil code". From what I understand this is simply read by reading the number of flashes from the check engine light? Second, my shop manual says if the bike cannot start for more than 10 seconds the mil light should start flashing. I am interpreting this correctly? See attached picture of the manual. I do not get a mil code at any point even after trying to start for 10 seconds or more.  Does this mean I  am safe to assume at this point that all sensors are in good working order?

 

Second, I also had a chance to pull a spark plug. I attached pictures of the plug, and it doesn't look great, however I would think that bad plugs would cause a rough running engine before going to no start, or am I wrong in that line of thinking? After trying to start the bike again I pulled the back plugs and they were a little wet, but I feel there should be more. I had to really look at it in the light to detect the moisture. So that being said I'm still looking for a way to see if the fuel pump is even moving fuel to the injectors. Also there seems to be oil on the plugs. I think that would be unrelated to the no start, but is that a cause for concern in the future?

 

Im definitely no mechanic but a little simple troubleshooting can go a long ways. Any thoughts or advice appreciated. 

 

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Hi shift707

 

I wonder wether you may have flooded the engine. I don't own a VFR1200, I have the VFR800F. In the VFR800F owners manual there is a procedure for what is a flooded engine start. It states 1. Open the Throttle Fully and press the Start Button for 5 seconds. 2. Repeat Normal starting procedure. 3. If engine starts, open the throttle slightly if idling is unstable. 4. If engine does not start, wait 10 seconds before trying steps 1 and 2 again.

Note - With the throttle Fully Open as in step 1 the engine will not start - its most likely going through a cylinder fuel purge phase.

Check your VFR1200 owners manual and see if it has a similar start procedure.

 

I've had exactly this issue with a Mazda 3. Started the engine (from cold), drove it 20 feet into the garage stopped the engine, next morning it would not start until I finally went through the flooded engine start process, its a known common issue with the car. Just need to make sure the car has a bit more warm up time before turning the engine off, its no longer an issue.

Hope this might help.

Cheers.

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My next suggestion was along the lines of what Grum just mentioned.

I've have the 98 do this within hours of running.

I eventually took all the plugs out and let her sit overnight.

Started first thing in the morning.

 

Did you connect the plug, ground it, to see if it was firing?

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Thanks guys!  Flooded engine is not out of the question.  This issue started about two weeks ago now so I think it would have dried out, however if it didn't warm up enough, and flooded the engine it may have fouled the plugs just bad enough that it wouldn't start.  That would make sense.  I'll be grabbing some new plugs hopefully this week and throwing them in.  Wonder how hard the front ones are to get to?  I did hold the plug against the frame and there is spark.  I'll keep you posted.

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Hi shift707.

Knowing you have a spark and your fuel pump is priming, think there is a good chance it's a flooded situation. Also your plug looks black and sooty which is odd especially just after a 3400 mile trip. Did you check the electrode gap is it still in spec? Another thing that might be worth considering is your fuel quality, anyhow lets know how you get on after the spark plug replacement.

Cheers.

Grum

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Flooded engine kinda makes sense.  Before I re-flashed my 1200 and blocked the PAIR valves (probably completely irrelevant), my VFR was a fickle bitch some times.  If I fired it up, revved the motor a few times (to show off to people how cool the Dam exhaust was) then shut it down, the next day she would not want to start or stay running until she cleared her system (usually a few minutes).  I've found that she likes to be warmed up a little before I take her for a spin.  If I rev the piss out of it (usually when someone about runs me over, and I need to let them know I am there), she may run like I fouled out the plugs or O2 sensor for a bit.

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Out of curiosity, what made you re flash your ECU? My throttle gets a bit snatchy at times, and has some weird dead spots. I've read it all has to do with the power limiters Honda added for 1st and second gear and re flashing the ECU will take care of that, but haven't actually heard of anyone doing it.

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Check out the Guhl Motors flash posted all over this forum.  I reflashed to get rid of the restrictions and get my gear indicator back.  What I really got out of the flash is a bike that just runs as it should.  I still have a bit of a 'dead spot' at about 3500 RPMs, but WAY better than it was since the re-flash adjusted the fueling as well.


Where in MN are you located?  I've only seen one other 1200 on the road...

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Tried to get the front spark plugs out today and as I figured they are impossible to get at. No way my big hands can get the ignition coils out. Anyone know if there is a tool to aid in getting the coils out?

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20 hours ago, shift707 said:

Tried to get the front spark plugs out today and as I figured they are impossible to get at. No way my big hands can get the ignition coils out. Anyone know if there is a tool to aid in getting the coils out?

Hi shift707.

Have you downloaded the Service Manual from this site? Have you got the tank removed?

Good luck.

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Yes, I have the service manual. I have the fuel tank and the air box off.  The manual says just to teach in and remove the coils.  The issue is lack of clearance between the front cylinders and the frame. There is so little room that I have to believe there is some unique tool to remove the ignition coils. Trying to pull a coil straight up, while reaching in straight sideways is just not possible. 

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Haha maybe my big hands just don't fit in there. Sounds like if I do the rear ones the shop would only charge me for the front ones. Probably just going to have them do the fronts. The battery tested just fine at a batteries plus. I was thinking i shoukd have it tested at a different place to be sure. 

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My suggestion is to replace the battery.  Not a popular suggestion maybe considering you have had it tested and some may consider it possibly throwing away money but that's what I would do.  These bikes are really fucking reliable and not prone to many of these types of glitches so I'd eliminate that variable before spending too much effort on other troubleshooting.  

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Checked all the fuses I could find tonight. They all look good. Also bought some small rubber tubing and hooked it to the fuel pump and ran that to a small container. When ignition is turned on the pump primes and when the starter is held the pump is sending fuel. I'm attaching a video of the bike trying to start. I feel like the starter sounds a bit different than it used to, but it could also be my ears playing tricks.  Final question is in regards to this little servo motor for the exhaust flap. I've never noticed it moving before, and perhaps I'm only noticing it now because I'm looking for a problem. Nonetheless does anyone know how this works? Does it appear to be operating correctly?  Just a few last long shot ideas. Otherwise it's headed to the shop on Friday. 

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