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End of an Era - No More VFR?


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8 hours ago, Sweeper said:

The average age of motorcyclist is over 40. That's a big issue for the industry. A new VFR that was our dream bike would still only sell in limited quantities. We need new blood.

 

I see that in young people. They just have no interest in bikes.  If it isn't digital or electric, they don't seem to care about it.  I've shown 30 somethings I work with photos of my long distance road trips and they think I'm crazy.   I agree that demographics are working against the sport and the trend to naked / adventure bikes did not help the VFR.  Plenty of low mile used units around makes it a tough sell for Honda too.  Though it truly bums me out to see the end of the line, ever hopeful maybe one day the VFR will be like the Camaro - discontinued, but at a future time resurrected and brought back to market in a sharper, more powerful form.   I'm not sure I'll be riding by then but if not will watch with interest. 

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5 hours ago, Duc2V4 said:

Personally I’m not asking Honda to change the VFR, to add more to it or take away from it, or to change it from what it is now, all I’m asking for Honda to give us a modern version of the RC-30/RC-45.

 

When those two models were released, they still had the standard VFR for sale. Buyers had a choice, get the “race derived” VFR or the “race” version RC model. That’s what I’m still hoping to see happen!

 

This.

 

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14 hours ago, Cogswell said:

 

I see that in young people. They just have no interest in bikes.  If it isn't digital or electric, they don't seem to care about it.  I've shown 30 somethings I work with photos of my long distance road trips and they think I'm crazy.   I agree that demographics are working against the sport and the trend to naked / adventure bikes did not help the VFR.  Plenty of low mile used units around makes it a tough sell for Honda too.  Though it truly bums me out to see the end of the line, ever hopeful maybe one day the VFR will be like the Camaro - discontinued, but at a future time resurrected and brought back to market in a sharper, more powerful form.   I'm not sure I'll be riding by then but if not will watch with interest. 

 

I wouldn't be surprised to see Honda take a production hiatus on the 800cc VFR and bring it back a few years later, possibly with a major engine overhaul. I'm fairly sure that at this point they could produce a 700cc engine that would make more power with less weight. Let the market consume some of the older models and let the prospective buyers stack up for a bit... Release a newly reworked lighter VFR700, and perhaps the adventure tour version a year or two later.

 

A guy can hope...

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1 hour ago, Marvelicious said:

 

I wouldn't be surprised to see Honda take a production hiatus on the 800cc VFR and bring it back a few years later, possibly with a major engine overhaul. I'm fairly sure that at this point they could produce a 700cc engine that would make more power with less weight. Let the market consume some of the older models and let the prospective buyers stack up for a bit... Release a newly reworked lighter VFR700, and perhaps the adventure tour version a year or two later.

 

A guy can hope...

 

Don't forget that American Honda often skips models and model years for bikes it doesn't think will sell in the USA.  It doesn't mean that Honda has "stopped producing" the models in question.

 

Ciao,

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56 minutes ago, JZH said:

 

Don't forget that American Honda often skips models and model years for bikes it doesn't think will sell in the USA.  It doesn't mean that Honda has "stopped producing" the models in question.

 

Ciao,

 

Is there any sign of a 2017+ VFR on international / UK sites?

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I'm a little more optimistic. With a title-winning motogp V4 I figure sooner or later Honda will come out with a high-end production sporting V4, whether they call it a VFR or not. With Ducati moving their production engine configuration in line with their motogp, maybe Honda will follow?

 

In the meantime, I recently spotted an amazing Interceptor III prototype here in the Bay Area:

 

 

IMG_3657.JPG

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23 hours ago, jhenley17 said:

Sorry, I was using "screamer" to refer to an even-firing I4. Is that incorrect?

The sound is definitely the advantage I care more about as I don't have a bike on the track, but I looking for a more quantifiable advantage to the V4 and cross plane I4. As for the power, no, it's not needed, but it is wanted. Slightly-above-average cars can nearly keep up with me above 80. I want to easily leave anyone behind me. "How often is that," you ask? "Mind your own business," I say. Anyways, my point is that it may not really be necessary, but I think they could easily give an 800-1000 120 RWHP without straining anything.


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I wasn't being snippy at you Jhenley.  When I said "you" I meant that in a general statement.  I do fully understand what you're saying.

 

I live in SoCal where there are A LOT of fast cars, trucks, SUV's, with uber-powerful engines, so I know what you mean about others being able to keep up.  But that statement should be taken into context.  Keep up with you WHERE?  Twisties?  Busy Freeway?  City?  Open interstate?  The only venue these fast cars have a chance to beat a VFR is the open interstate IF they have the space and distance to do it.  I remember seeing a video from Brazil where a loud-mouthed Audi R10 driver kept bragging that he beat two liter bikes on their freeway.  Well yeah they were lucky to be alive!  And his Audi top speed is probably above 190?  While the liter bikes probably 186?  Clearly he had the advantage.  But if you saw the video it was obvious the Audi was on the ragged edge of causing a massive pile up!   Truthfully, you won't encounter many Audi R10's.  Further, look at the VFR800 roll on numbers from 45-65 then 65-85 or 65-100....one would need a twin turbo something to keep up (not pass).  But once in the open those same cars will pull away at 140+ as the VFR reaches its top speed.  That scenario won't happen often.  99% of the time you will be ahead on a VFR800 when you factor in other vehicles around you.  The maneuverability of a sport bike is more than enough to keep fast cars at a distance in public roads MOST of the time.  

 

I'm sure Honda can make an 800cc V4 with 120 rwhp.  But they're not willing to invest millions just to get that engine to pass emissions for a bike that's not going to sell so well.  Like I said, even Ducati didn't think 120 rwhp was necessary on their SS.  Even Kawasaki's Z1000 isn't flying off the showroom floor either!

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4 hours ago, Marvelicious said:

 

I wouldn't be surprised to see Honda take a production hiatus on the 800cc VFR and bring it back a few years later, possibly with a major engine overhaul. I'm fairly sure that at this point they could produce a 700cc engine that would make more power with less weight. Let the market consume some of the older models and let the prospective buyers stack up for a bit... Release a newly reworked lighter VFR700, and perhaps the adventure tour version a year or two later.

 

A guy can hope...

 Ducati did that with the SS.  Last SS in the US was 2007 I believe.

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On 12/18/2017 at 6:01 PM, Cogswell said:

 

I see that in young people. They just have no interest in bikes.  If it isn't digital or electric, they don't seem to care about it.  I've shown 30 somethings I work with photos of my long distance road trips and they think I'm crazy.   I agree that demographics are working against the sport and the trend to naked / adventure bikes did not help the VFR.  Plenty of low mile used units around makes it a tough sell for Honda too.  Though it truly bums me out to see the end of the line, ever hopeful maybe one day the VFR will be like the Camaro - discontinued, but at a future time resurrected and brought back to market in a sharper, more powerful form.   I'm not sure I'll be riding by then but if not will watch with interest. 

 

Well, part of the trouble is that the segment of the younger population that is into bikes is mostly the Hipster crowd. As a generalization, they want older stuff, or at least stuff that looks vintage from the showroom. I wonder how many potential riders bought some old Ironhead basket case from Craigslist and the passion died on the vine. Sure, it looks cool when Thor Drake or Roland Sands puts one together, but it's actually a lot of work throwing together a project bike that you can ride on a regular basis, rather than run it through its paces for the duration of a photo shoot and park it in your coffee shop...

 

Y'know, all it would take to turn this around would be some popular TV show that showcases sport bikes. Just to illustrate, I'm pretty sure I didn't see nearly the concentration of dresser Harleys on the road until suddenly Sons of Anarchy had them. Granted, it wasn't grabbing the youth market, but that show was pretty much custom tailored for the midlife crisis set... 

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The VFR800 is showing as a current model (2018, now) on the UK, German and Italian Honda sites I looked at.

 

Ciao,

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Thanks for posting this. 

http://www.honda.co.uk/motorcycles/range/sport-touring/vfr800f-2014/overview.html

I see they even offer a 'sport' package with an Akrapovic slip on.

Maybe, as others have said - there's hope in the coming years, but honestly, with the demographic change of hipsters and youngerlings,

I highly doubt it.

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Well, at least Honda is still making the VFR, even if it doesn't make sense for them to bring them to the states.

 

Here's an interesting take on the state of the motorcycle industry. It touches on failure to reach women riders (women riders raise kids who ride), the antiquated dealership model, and poor customer experience when visiting a dealership:

http://bit.ly/2CAzshg

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Would a throwback to a VF750 sell?  Imagine a new >100hp V4 in a package that is semi naked ala the first interceptor. Hell, they could strip a version way down and revive the Sabre line.

 

It wouldnt have to win races and the hipsters would love it. I think most of us would love it too. 

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5 hours ago, timmythecop said:

Would a throwback to a VF750 sell?  Imagine a new >100hp V4 in a package that is semi naked ala the first interceptor. Hell, they could strip a version way down and revive the Sabre line.

 

It wouldnt have to win races and the hipsters would love it. I think most of us would love it too. 

 

Eh, not for me... I prefer the Cafe looks of that Kawi. Too much "cruiser" in the Magna. I'm willing to admit that I'm probably outnumbered in that respect though.

 

Edit: whoops, just realized you were referencing the early Interceptor, not the Magna... Still a bit painfully 80s, but far better overall...

 

 

6 hours ago, sfdownhill said:

Well, at least Honda is still making the VFR, even if it doesn't make sense for them to bring them to the states.

 

Here's an interesting take on the state of the motorcycle industry. It touches on failure to reach women riders (women riders raise kids who ride), the antiquated dealership model, and poor customer experience when visiting a dealership:

http://bit.ly/2CAzshg

 

Interesting thoughts. 'Many millennial consumers were “bubble-wrapped for safety in their youth” or raised by overprotective parents who discouraged risk-taking.' Hah! I can think of a half dozen 20 something oversize children I know that are described perfectly by that phrase without even scratching my head.

 

I think they're missing the point with the dealership problem though. Not that I don't regard dealing with a dealership somewhat less enticing than having a tooth pulled, but it isn't just Motorcycle dealerships, or even vehicle dealerships... it's the idea of the "sales person" that is dead. In the age of the internet, I don't need someone (who may or may not be making up anything they can't remember) to fill me in on details of the product. If I'm shopping for something, I've probably already informed myself about the product before ever arriving at the store. At that point, the sales person can be replaced by a cashier! Hell, for a vehicle, let me do all the paperwork online and tell me when I can swing by to pick it up! A "helpful" sales person will generally send me right out the door if they don't get the hint that I'm not interested in their help.

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Yes, one can do the research online, and perhaps purchase a motorcycle sight unseen. I don't think I'd be able to leap to a motorcycle purchase without looking; seeing in person all the details I'd read about online, swinging a leg over. That's just me.

 

When I meet a high quality salesperson [In any field, selling goods or services], I get a clear vibe that they are tapping into significant experience, and, usually, education, to find the best solution for me. Perhaps there is a continuum that runs from the motorcycle buying newbie [Isn't even sure what kind of riding they might begin with] all the way to the rider who's done it all for decades. Somewhere along this continuum, the sales person can offer assistance and guidance, if at different levels for the different riders. The enormous assumption I'm making is that the salesperson in question is scrupulous, knowledgeable, and proficient in people skills.

 

Your point is certainly valid, and raises the questions:

 

"Are physical dealerships necessary to the motorcycle industry?"

 

"Can brick and mortar motorcycle dealerships help the motorcycle industry? How?"

 

"Are brick and mortar dealerships currently hurting the motorcycle industry? How?"

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I don't think dealerships need to go anywhere. I still buy some parts there and, occasionally, service, especially warranty issues. There's also nothing quite as convincing to sway you one way or another as seeing it, sitting on it, and starting it up. The problem isn't really the dealership, but bad and/or pushy salespeople. There are plenty of them perfectly happy to sell a first-timer a Hayabusa, or whatever they get the most incentive to sell. When I was trying to get my 599, the guy kept trying to push an FZ6 on me for some reason. I also like to tap their knowledge and experience, even just their product information across their range is useful. As most people, I do my homework and can usually tell when they're full of shit, but they can still be helpful.


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I'm not opposed to the showroom concept, but my experiences with dealership sales people have been almost laughably unpleasant. From prices that don't add up (one place quoted me a price a thousand dollars over MSRP for an ATV - they had several in stock. On the same ATV, their nearest competitor quoted a price two thousand lower which somehow managed to grow another $700 on the paperwork...) to their continuing tendency to treat women of my acquaintance like it's 1955 to the overall pushy demeanor ("what can I do to get you to buy this today?" Nothing. I came in to test it out. Leave me alone and let me form an opinion.)

 

The fact is, the dealership is the company that hires these ****s, and if they didn't want that sort of sales force, they wouldn't have that kind of sales force.

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On 18/12/2017 at 12:01 PM, litigatin said:

I know, man.   It's so weird to admit that while "we" all love it, I can understand why a lot of folks look at it and don't get the appeal.  I couldn't say for sure, but if I had to guess, I'd bet the average VFR fan is over 40, a former sportbike rider who doesn't feel like riding a beast anymore, and someone who grew up loving the line.  Sure, there's something special about the bike, character, etc etc, but anyone looking at it on paper or during a test ride in a vacuum would be hard pressed to say it is better than its competitors.  Not that I give a damn; it's still the first bike I grab the keys for every day.

 

I fit your description upto a point.  I still ride and love sportbikes, but their day has come and gone.  Given the choice of only owning my sport bike or 4th gen. vfr, I'd settle for the VFR, but it does need about 20 more hp.

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