Jump to content

Burnt starter relay connector: cause or consequence?


HumalogAddict

Recommended Posts

  • Member Contributer

Hey guys. I started another thread about my fuel pump not priming but that no longer seems to be the issue. The bike died last weekend on the highway and both of the 20a fuses (original and the one on the vfrness) were blown. The fuel pump was also not working but after replacing the fuses, it seems to be fine. My brain was simply stupid at the time (pump doesn't work so disconnect connector and see that it doesn't get 12v // notice the fuses are blown and replace them // now the connector gets 12v // forget to replug it and test it, conclude that the pump is the issue // drain and remove tank // test pump with spare wires connected to the battery: it works // replug connector and the pump works // realize it was simply the fuses // feel like an idiot).

 

So now I'm looking for the reason it died in the first place aka why the fuses blew.

 

Quick portrait of the electrical situation:

*VFRness installed a few years back

*Replaced white stator/RR connector by beaffier wire and bullet connectors which were then individually wrapped

*New stator and RR about 10000 miles ago

*Replaced white OEM fuse holder near the battery with a heavy duty weatherproof one.

 

Current situation:

*All connectors seem ok (opened them all up and inspected them)

*Grounds all look good

*Wires I can see all look good

*Weatherproof fuse holder is now a little melted (see pic)

*Starter relay connector is melted at the red wire and seemed possibly corroded (see pics)

 

So the question would be, is a melted and possibly corroded starter relay connector a potential cause or the consequence of the short (right?) that lead to the blown fuse?

 

The only other thing I can think of is that the stator/RR bullet connectors may have been a little loose as they did come apart easily once unwrapped. Any chance that this could have caused a short?

 

I'll get everything back together tomorrow and test the charging system but would love any input in the mean time.

 

Thanks.

 

 

 

 

20170628_195143.jpg

20170628_201056.jpg

20170628_201048.jpg

20170628_194950_HDR.jpg

20170628_195300.jpg

Link to comment
Share on other sites

  • Member Contributer

Ah Ha, the red wire in the starter relay cover melting problem. I think this is endemic to all the gens of the VFR. SO, after studying the wiring diagram, I ran the red wire strait to the battery with an in-line fuse holder. (completely disconnect it from the starter relay) I've never read about/seen this done in all the years of dialog on the VFR electrical problems. It's been working great for about 3 years/12000 miles now. This is, of course in addition to hard wiring the 3 stator wires, direct to frame ground and direct positive to battery from the R/R. 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

  • Member Contributer
3 hours ago, HumalogAddict said:

So now I'm looking for the reason it died in the first place aka why the fuses blew.

 

*Starter relay connector is melted at the red wire and seemed possibly corroded (see pics)

 

So the question would be, is a melted and possibly corroded starter relay connector a potential cause or the consequence of the short (right?) that lead to the blown fuse?

 

A possible root cause would indeed by corrosion of the connector, the same thing certainly can happen with the stator connector. Corrosion develops, that increases the resistance through the connector, which then heats enough to melt the terminal block. If you then get contact with an earth wire, you would have excessive current and cause the fuse to blow. 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

A possible root cause would indeed by corrosion of the connector, the same thing certainly can happen with the stator connector. Corrosion develops, that increases the resistance through the connector, which then heats enough to melt the terminal block. If you then get contact with an earth wire, you would have excessive current and cause the fuse to blow. 

Totally agree. You can reuse them but ensure to use some dielectric grease to prevent moisture to enter the conector, also ensure good contact smashing a little bit the "ears" of the connector for them to bite better on the other terminal.
If you want to keep the melted connectors ensure to use some thermoretractile tubing on exposed parts with dielectric grease underneath. If you are not sure about reusing them just replace them.
Link to comment
Share on other sites

  • Member Contributer

Ok so I went to a bunch of stores to try to replace the red connector for the starter relay but it does not seem to be available anywhere. Local dealers do not carry them either. You can buy a new relay but the connector is part of the main harness. The only option was on eBay from China so I ordered one so it should get here it in anywhere from 4 to 35 weeks I guess :)

 

So in the meantime I cleaned up the male tab on the relay and the female portion in the red connector, closed up the female part a bit, stuffed the whole thing with ox-gard and closed it up. Cleaned, ox-garded, reconnected and shrink wrapped the 3 yellow wires and fired it up. Seems to run well.

 

Current leakage test: 1.93mA

Alternator coil resistance: all more or less 0.3 ohms

12.6v at the battery when the bike is off (a little low but that's what Yuasa calls for on their website)

14.3v at idle with a warm engine

14.45v at 5000rpm

 

Although these voltage numbers are within the service manual specs of idle voltage < charging voltage < 15.5v they seem a little high to me. Thoughts?

Link to comment
Share on other sites

  • Member Contributer
4 hours ago, HumalogAddict said:

Ok so I went to a bunch of stores to try to replace the red connector for the starter relay but it does not seem to be available anywhere. Local dealers do not carry them either. You can buy a new relay but the connector is part of the main harness. The only option was on eBay from China so I ordered one so it should get here it in anywhere from 4 to 35 weeks I guess :)

 

So in the meantime I cleaned up the male tab on the relay and the female portion in the red connector, closed up the female part a bit, stuffed the whole thing with ox-gard and closed it up. Cleaned, ox-garded, reconnected and shrink wrapped the 3 yellow wires and fired it up. Seems to run well.

 

Current leakage test: 1.93mA

Alternator coil resistance: all more or less 0.3 ohms

12.6v at the battery when the bike is off (a little low but that's what Yuasa calls for on their website)

14.3v at idle with a warm engine

14.45v at 5000rpm

 

Although these voltage numbers are within the service manual specs of idle voltage < charging voltage < 15.5v they seem a little high to me. Thoughts?

The voltage numbers are slightly higher than I see (14.1 idle, 14.2 everywhere else) but not by very much. I'm sure you will see differences from one RR to another and (I have a non-stock RR fitted by a PO, part number suggests off a Ducati). So long as you are below 15.5 then I doubt you can harm the battery. 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

  • Member Contributer

They're  fine, the real test(s) are how the system carries a load(heated clothes,etc.), especially when parts are hot. 

Likely to take 15min or half an hour of running to achieve

Link to comment
Share on other sites

  • Member Contributer
10 hours ago, airwalk said:

They're  fine, the real test(s) are how the system carries a load(heated clothes,etc.), especially when parts are hot. 

Likely to take 15min or half an hour of running to achieve

 

Could you elaborate a little on this please? Sorry I have limited skills in electrical things :)

 

Thanks!

 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

  • Member Contributer

You certainly have skills with a camera, great pics!

Simply put, your elec sys. is capable of functioning(charging batt.) if it mostly puts out 13.2 V but 15.5 is excessive.

It's a 3 phase source/ output & can carry a normal load (draw) while not being perfect but won't do well with extra demand unless everything is very healthy,source(stator) & all wiring, as you've recently discovered

So if all connections are good components are the most likely to be a problem, the usual suspects being the reg.rect unit ( overcharge) or the stator(undercharge)

Big challenges occur, however, when you're wrestling with intermittent flaws, which often don't even appear until the engine is at operating temp.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

  • Member Contributer

The red solenoid connector used to be impossible to find (not part of a used Honda wiring harness, that is), but Cycle Terminal now has them:

 

Motorcycle-Starter-main-fuse-cover-Solen

(Cycle Terminal rocks, btw.  Amazing selection, reasonable pricing and even cheap international shipping!) 

 

Your charging data look good, but what is a little worrying is that the "sealed" fuse holder on the VFRNess also melted.  That would have been protected from the environment, and thus immune from corrosion, so the overheating could only have been caused by something else...such as over-voltage.

 

Ciao,

Link to comment
Share on other sites

  • Member Contributer

If you haven't already, mount a nice voltmeter somewhere in plain view, it'll really help you keep "current" on your system performance

3 hours ago, JZH said:

The red solenoid connector used to be impossible to find (not part of a used Honda wiring harness, that is), but Cycle Terminal now has them:

 

Motorcycle-Starter-main-fuse-cover-Solen

(Cycle Terminal rocks, btw.  Amazing selection, reasonable pricing and even cheap international shipping!) 

 

Your charging data look good, but what is a little worrying is that the "sealed" fuse holder on the VFRNess also melted.  That would have been protected from the environment, and thus immune from corrosion, so the overheating could only have been caused by something else...such as over-voltage.

 

Ciao,

Quote

 

 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

  • Member Contributer

Wow, great find thanks! I just ordered one.

 

If it makes any difference it is actually not the 20a fuse holder on the VFRness that melted as that one is not sealed. The one that melted is the waterproof one I installed to replace the flimsy white (originally 30a but now 20a as per the VFRness instructions) main fuse B connector near the battery. Both fuses did blow but only the fuse holder from the main fuse B melted.

 

New information, I got the battery load tested at a local shop and apparently it doesn't hold a charge and needs to be replaced. I don't see how this could be related to the issue at hand but I'll get a new one regardless.

 

And yes a voltmeter will be installed to keep me current hahahaha

Link to comment
Share on other sites

  • Member Contributer

Ok so a little update.

 

Still no idea why it melted as there was no corrosion on it but I swapped out the melted fuse holder (main fuse B, not the one on the VFRness) for a new one. I also installed a voltmeter. I put it directly on the battery poles for now but will eventually wire it in more permanently on the license plate light wire or something.

 

I also went to get the battery tested at a second shop and they confirmed it failed the load test. Pulled out my spare battery (remember that AC Delco deal a few years back? yeah, that one), added the acid and put it on the charger.

 

In the mean time I went for a ride and got this:

*After running a few minutes*

Idle: 14.3v

5000rpm: 14.4v

*During varied riding*

Oscillated between 14.3v and 14.5v the entire time.

*After an hour of riding*

Idle: 14.4v

5000rpm: 14.2v (hmmmmmm)

 

Today I swapped out the batteries and did it all over again. In general the bike feels much better and stronger.

 

*During varied riding*

Was at 14.4v for 95% of the ride (14.5v the rest of the time), regardless of speed, rpm or gear

*After an hour of riding*

__before the fan came on__

Idle: 14.4v

3000rpm: 14.3v

5000rpm: 14.4v

__after the fan came on__

Idle: 14.4 - 14.5v

5000rpm: 14.3v (hmmmmmm)

 

So once hot, the alternator seems a little deficient but not that much?

 

Thoughts?

 

Thanks!

Link to comment
Share on other sites

  • Member Contributer

Seems like you have it all worked out... Voltage looks good. I wouldnt be concerned with 0.1 V difference while running... Anything at 14.0+ is considered healthy.

If you are still concerned about the stator, do the stator tests from "the drill"

 

As a BTW, ---IMHO, ditch the VFRness and wire direct to the battery. Again--IMHO the VFRness seems to create more problems than it fixes.

(with respect, apologies to tightwad)

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Archived

This topic is now archived and is closed to further replies.

×
×
  • Create New...

Important Information

By using this site, you agree to our Privacy Policy.