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Steering Damper for a 97


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Has anyone here put a damper of any kind on their 94-97 VFR?

If so, some advice would be greatly appreciated.

I have recently completely refurbished my 97:
 

  • All balls steering head bearings
  • DID X-ring chain and new sprockets
  • Updated fork internals by Traxxion Dynamics
  • Penske shock
  • All new braided hydraulic lines
  • Rebuilt brakes
  • carb rebuild
  • and a bunch of other little things .....



The Penske provides a bit more ride height, so I raised (made the front-end taller) by about 5mm.

I am running with a brand new set of OEM size Pirelli Rosso IIs.

The front end does not have the best feel or inspire the most confidence.

It feels like it wants to dive into corners much quicker than I would like and feels a bit twitchy mid-corner.

I gave it a bit more steering bearing preload but it still doesn't feel right.

The head bearings feel great, in that they have the proper headset drag that they should and they move freely as they should as well.

It feels like it just needs a decent damper.

Ideally, I'd like a radial damper but no one makes one for this bike, but any experience that anyone has installing one on this bike would be greatly appreciated.

Thanks,
-- Ryan

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I can't help with the steering damper, I've only mounted linear ones on my nsr. Regarding it's proclivity to dive, have you thought about a heavier weight fork oil?

Sent from my SCH-I545 using Tapatalk

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I probably was not clear about how it handles.  The front feels fine, soaks up bumps fine and has the correct spring rate.  At a certain lean angle it feels like it wants to turn into the corner faster than it should.  And mid-corner, after a certain lean angle does not feel planted.

 

Another option that I have thought about is adding a bit more steering bearing preload and trying a different front tire.

 

-- Ryan

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A steering damper won't help with that issue. I would try a front tire with a less aggressive profile. You might end up having to change the rear as well.

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Could very well be the tire you have. I learned very quickly, after a 10-15 foot slide, that the right tire means a lot. My bike had fairly new Conti Road Attack 2s when I got it. Set the suspension up as best as possible with everything stock, went for a ride and the rear tire didn't like my new found ability to actually ride the bike. Switched them out for some Metzler Roadtec Z8s and I could actually ride to my personal comfort.

 

I would also suggest putting the front back to original ride height from numerous posts by others on here.

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A different set of tires was also something that I had thought about.

 

I have a set of Michelin Pilot Power 3s on an NT650GT that I absolutely love.  Provides fantastic front-end feel and confidence.

 

The only thing is that they don't make a 170 for the rear.

 

I probably should start another thread for this question, but . . . any experience running a 180 on a '97?

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The VFR doesn't need a steering damper, ever.

 

Unless you put a particularly twitchy front end on with a massively different offset.

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And a 180 is just fine on a VFR750, the 8 spoker is 5.5" wide, so fits perfect. The later bike has a 5" wide wheel, so it pinches and changes the tyre profile a smidge...but in all reality, makes no difference to turn in...even though all the Rossi wannabe's will tell you otherwise. Such is internet expertise. 

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Thanks for all of the replies.

 

The '97 has the narrower rim so I was a bit hesitant to go up a size just because.  However, if I am hearing that it is done without any ill effects then a different set of tires is probably what is needed in this case.

 

As far as geometry goes, with the new shock, I'm still playing around with height on both ends.

 

Thanks again.

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Still don't think you'll need a damper. But time will tell I guess!

 

Maybe buy a 90-93 8 spoke wheel. I know they're like hens teeth, but they do pop up and look so much nicer.

 

They also add 8bhp

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7 hours ago, 750 said:

The VFR doesn't need a steering damper, ever.

 

A stock VFR does not need a steering damper, ever.

 

The OP's suspension is aftermarket front & back and it sounds like they were not exactly purchased together from a reputable specialist, hence big unknown in terms of geometry, spring rates and damping. 

 

Was that Penske made for your bike ? Since you tried raising the front, I'd assume it raises the back quite a bit. Correct ?

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14 hours ago, HondaVRider said:

I am running with a brand new set of OEM size Pirelli Rosso IIs.

 

I looked them up and they are sports tyres but not excessively aggressive. In fact, they were praised for their stability so I'd rule them out as a cause (unless poorly balanced, which you would notice, or otherwise faulty from the factory, which is not very likely). 

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1 hour ago, RC36Rider said:

 

A stock VFR does not need a steering damper, ever.

 

The OP's suspension is aftermarket front & back and it sounds like they were not exactly purchased together from a reputable specialist, hence big unknown in terms of geometry, spring rates and damping. 

 

Was that Penske made for your bike ? Since you tried raising the front, I'd assume it raises the back quite a bit. Correct ?

 

You'd have to make some SERIOUS geometry changes to make the front end become twitchy enough to justify a steering damper. But, whetever, the OP can do what he likes :)

 

 

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1 hour ago, 750 said:

You'd have to make some SERIOUS geometry changes to make the front end become twitchy enough to justify a steering damper. But, whetever, the OP can do what he likes :)

 

Quite. I don't think a steering damper is called for either.

 

I worded/quoted that poorly, sorry. :mellow:

 

What I was getting at is that while it's hard to make a stock 4G VFR even slightly unstable given the lazy geometry and limited adjustments available, this one is actually not stock given that it has finely adjustable suspension components which is great but introduces a real possibility to mess things up.

 

A combination of forward pitch and mismatched suspension settings could explain the "issue", IMO.

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After the very appreciated and well meaning comments to this post, I remembered something . . . . That I haven't yet set the sag or even started tuning the suspension yet (yes, a bit of a noob mistake, but whatever).

 

I finished getting this machine back together a week before it started snowing last fall . . . then turned my attention to getting my NT650GT race bike back together.

 

Regarding the suspension components: I have had Traxxion Dynamics put together suspension for many street and race bikes for over 20 years and they are excellent at what they do.  What I need to do next is set the sag and then tune the rebound and compression for the shock to match the front.

 

Regarding the geometry, yes the Penske is a shock built for the '97 VFR.  Penske builds them longer, even in the shortest configuration, than the stock shocks.  I raised the front a bit as it was a simple test to see how it would behave with the additional ride height in the rear.  It did make it better, . . . but it is not quite there yet.

 

As far as the tires go, I eyeballed the front comparing it to the 120/60 17 on my street NT650GT and the Pirelli seems to be much more of a triangular shape.  The VFR turns in so easily that it probably could use a more round profile.  In my experience the shape of a tire does not mean that it will feel the same on all bikes.  Some bike steer very slowly and a more triangular tire suits them, while others steer faster and feel more planted on a "rounder" tire.  This is the first set of the Rosso IIs that I've ever ridden on, so we shall see if I can make them work.

 

So, first thing is to get the suspension tuned and then see if that makes a difference.

 

Knowing that I can run a 180 on the back opens up my tire choices a lot and I will probably try a set of Michelin Pilot Power 3s next season.

 

Obligatory photo:

 

20161113_142452.thumb.jpg.fd69c460e6444ec894a76d47e6a9e5fa.jpg

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1 hour ago, HondaVRider said:

I have had Traxxion Dynamics put together suspension for many street and race bikes for over 20 years and they are excellent at what they do.

 

Oh. I have no doubt about that. Neither do I question that Penske is second to none in terms of quality suspension components. 

 

My concern was entirely whether they were originally intended for the bike and properly set up as a package.

 

1 hour ago, HondaVRider said:

So, first thing is to get the suspension tuned and then see if that makes a difference.

 

Yup ! :fing02:

 

Do let us know how it turns out, please. :smile:

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That is a very nice bike, not sure about the twin pipes though.

I can vouch for the Rosso III's (not II's) better then PP3's in my opinion, they are fantastic, will definetly quicken your steering.

Get your suspension set up, I'm sure that is all your problems.

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@RVFR will do, thanks.

 

@VFROZ, thanks.  Yeah, I feel the same way about the pipe on this bike.  It was on the bike when I bought it and there were other things that I wanted to do with this machine before (if ever) messing with that.  A bit on the cheezy side from a looks perspective . . . but it does sound nice :)

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Definitely shouldn't ever need a steering damper on a VFR750. 
I've put shorter than standard reworked forks / front end on mine (from an RC51 SP2) and a Maxton GP10 shock, which sits the rear higher than standard. I then raised it another 25mm or so. The front is still plenty stable enough. 

Maybe you need to raise the back more, rather than raising the front. Check tyre pressures too?

 

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Have you set your suspensions sag after the major changes you made to both ends? If not, you NEED to do this.

 

Also make sure your tire pressure is not overfilled.

 

Tapered roller bearings increase mid corner stability, that should have helped...

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  • 3 months later...

So . . . after finally finishing up the rebuild of my track bike and getting it through its shakedown track day I was able to turn attention back to the VFR.

 

After setting the sag on both ends and then spinning the knobs on the shock to get the compression and rebound dialed in, the bike handles fantastically.  Of course, right?  Thanks everyone for pointing out my noob mistake of forgetting to do that and thanks for all of the constructive input.  Very nice to find a forum of other adults.  :)

 

I do think that I am going to try a set of Michelin Pilot Power 3s next time as I think I like those tires a bit better than the Pirellis that I have on there now.

 

Thanks again, everybody.

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About using a wider tire than stock on the stock 5" rim, don't do it!

Had a Dunlop on my 4th gen that ran wider than stock even though it was labeled as a 170 (they measured at 180mm). It really screwed up the bike's handling and made it feel like it was falling into corners. Worse yet, low speed stability was really affected badly. And even slow parking lot maneuvers became a nerve wracking experience. I'm sure it was because the rear tire profile was pinched by the rim.

All the bad handling went away after I switched over to a later Dunlop than did not run wider than the 170s they were supposed to be........handling got bad again though after the front started cupping, which is a typical flaw with Dunlops. Switched over to Michelin Pilots and I haven't had any handling problems again, since......

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  • 2 weeks later...

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