Rick1 Posted March 30, 2017 Share Posted March 30, 2017 I googled and ran through the steps as found online, but still having problem. So would like to get some help here. QUESTION - Can I simply pull the clutch lifter rod from the slave cylinder, for clean and reinstall? Thanks! Story, if you have time. I bought my 2000 VFR before the winter. Rode it home, changed oil and filter, and parked it in the garage, where I'd start it about once a month just to hear it run. Now, the bike will start fine, but clutch doesn't disengage with the lever pulled in. Lever has good pressure. From online search, I have done below, but still no joy: 1. Stuck clutch plates - bike running in neutral, shift into gear (second and first) to try to jar the clutch plates loose. I tried this multiple times, with bike warm and cold, without success. 2. Master cylinder and/or slave cylinder problems and/or air/fluid problems - I bled the system and visually inspected the slave piston. Free movement when lever is pulled, and the piston actually slowly crept outward while I had the slave cylinder off. I took this as a good sign that the piston is free. I did pull on the lifter rod and noticed it was hard to pull out at first. Once I got it moving, I tried moving it out and in by maybe a 1/4" and noticed there is a point where it would feel "sticky" in the in/out motion. This is closer to the all the way in position. I assume it's just the point where it get seated? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FairWeatherFellow Posted March 30, 2017 Share Posted March 30, 2017 I had a similar issue on my fourth gen a while back, didn't realize what it was at the time. Thought my slave was trashed, or needed new clutch springs. Got a suggestion to remove the clutch rod, sand the side that faces the slave with a nice fine grit until smooth, then flip the rod around and insert it back into place. Shouldn't be any issue removing completely. Hope this helps! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Member Contributer Terry Posted March 30, 2017 Member Contributer Share Posted March 30, 2017 Yes you can pull the clutch lifter rod completely out of the 5G engine via the left side. When you have it out, clean it and polish it lightly, then oil it up and slide it home. Also a good time to clean around the case and seal area. Regarding the clutch plates, you might be better off with engine off, put the bike in gear with the clutch pulled in, and then rock it forwards and backwards to break the plates free of each other. That is assuming the clutch pushrod is actually moving freely and lifting the clutch centre, but you'd be able to tell by the clutch lever feel if it is not. At that point the only thing holding the plates together will be old,cold oil. It might actually be beneficial to run the engine up to operating temperature first, I'm sure some additional heat in there might help. Then switch off and rock the bike as above. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rick1 Posted March 30, 2017 Author Share Posted March 30, 2017 Thank you, Terry. Appreciate the reply and additional advice. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rick1 Posted March 30, 2017 Author Share Posted March 30, 2017 @FairWeatherFellow, thanks for the reply. Just saw it. I will do it today and report back. Rick Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rick1 Posted March 31, 2017 Author Share Posted March 31, 2017 Pulled the rod and observed wear at both ends (pictured. Left has more wear rings than the right, which only has one ring). Cleaned it with 0000 wire wool and reinserted in reverse direction. With a dab of grease at the slave end, per manual. No joy... Also tried rocking it back and forth, with engine off, in first and second gears. Did it both cold and warm. Really would rather not have to dig into the clutch. :( Any thoughts? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Member Contributer Terry Posted March 31, 2017 Member Contributer Share Posted March 31, 2017 Sorry to hear that you are having no success. Are you sure the clutch hydraulics are working? There is a significant difference in feel between air in the system, and a solid feel where the only resistance is the clutch springs. I'd hate for you to pull the clutch cover off only to find the problem is in the master or slave cylinder. Pulling the clutch apart is not too difficult. You can do it without dropping the oil, whilst on the sidestand. Once the cover is unbolted and the gasket seal is broken (a few good rubber mallet whacks sorted mine) you'll be able to get straight in. I ignored the instruction to remove throttle bodies to access a cable connection for the pulse generator, and just opted to leave the cable connected but swing the cover clear. Then it's just a matter of removing the clutch spring bolts and the clutch can be disassembled, no special tools needed unless you want/need to go further. At this point your only cost is the gasket. If you do this, it would make sense to replace the fibre discs as they do wear down with use. The least fun part is scraping off the old gasket, that took me longer than swapping the plates. And don't drop a dowel pin into the open crankcase during reassembly (DAMHIK). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rick1 Posted March 31, 2017 Author Share Posted March 31, 2017 haha... Yeah, I am guilty of dropping things from time to time. Not fun at all.... Thanks for the advice. The lever felt fine and did go through the "no pressure" to "pressurized" range while I bled the system - I started with the syringe to reverse bleed, then a mity-vac to pull from the bleed nipple, and finally the regular method of pumping lever, hold, release nipple, close, pump again. Why all three methods, you ask? Cuz I was totally unable to push fluid in via the syringe, and the mity-vac also failed to pull fluid out. Yes, nipple cracked. But it finally flowed well with the pump lever method. Perhaps this is a clue that the problem is on the master-slave end. I'll check it again later today. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rick1 Posted April 3, 2017 Author Share Posted April 3, 2017 Alright. Bled the clutch again. Weird thing is that I cannot reverse bleed with a syringe nor the mityvac. I had the slave off and tried it with the piston out in various depth. No success. Finally put everything back together and was able to bleed without problem using the regular pump lever and hold method. The feel of the lever, and also observation of the piston while the slave is off, show that everything is working on that end. So, I'll be opening the clutch cover next... Any suggestions on where to get the gasket? Thanks! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FairWeatherFellow Posted April 3, 2017 Share Posted April 3, 2017 Hmmm interesting things going on. Only thing that catches my eye about what you've said is that you used steel wool on the rod. Not sure if that has enough abrasion to actually remove the scratches on the rod. Something like 800 grit would be more able. If there is good lever feel and your slave piston is moving freely, than all that remains is the clutch itself. Plates stuck, maybe replace your springs. Also the gasket you should be able to order OEM from a Honda dealer. One of the few things you can still order from Honda. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rick1 Posted April 3, 2017 Author Share Posted April 3, 2017 Thank you. I did a quick Google of vfr clutch gasket and only got aftermarket results, so wanted to make sure everyone is still using OEM. Everything feels right from the lever. I assume polishing the rod is only to make sure it doesn't get caught/stuck. Is that correct? If that's the case, I don't think it applies since I do have full motion at the lever - indicating full motion of the rod, I assume. Will get a gasket on order. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Member Contributer JZH Posted April 3, 2017 Member Contributer Share Posted April 3, 2017 The push rod can actually get a lip worn into it, which can cause problems. Yours looks fine. Ciao, Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
courtuk Posted April 4, 2017 Share Posted April 4, 2017 I recently had awful trouble with my clutch. Turned out the plates WERE stuck. I had to replace the slave because of leakage, but after fitting the new one and bleeding, I found it would not free the clutch (when the engine was off). I bled it again thinking I had done something wrong. The slave should push out maybe 1-2mm is enough movement to activate the rod. What I realise when pulling the rod out was oil wasn't falling out the hole, it is a wet clutch though, so of course the oil must move around the clutch plates during engine being on. I ran the engine for a minute or so but it did not do anything, even applying rear brake and holding clutch in. I tried several other things short of opening the clutch side. In the end I ran the engine for a longer time (enough so the engine is up to temperature, 5+ minutes?). I sat on the bike in the driveway and put it in gear with clutch held in and everything worked. The bike had been sitting for several weeks so I assume the plates just became cold and stuck. I tried a lot before thinking the slave was the culprit, then thinking there were internal parts broken. I think what you describe they are just stuck, use a clamp on the slave piston, on the hose, to check that it is free of air ofc. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Member Contributer BCmcrider Posted April 4, 2017 Member Contributer Share Posted April 4, 2017 On my old Yamaha TY trials bike, the clutch would be stuck at the start of every ride. Start in neutral or first and drive around with the clutch in till it breaks loose. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rick1 Posted April 8, 2017 Author Share Posted April 8, 2017 Thanks for all the feedback! I rocked it multiple times, in gear with engine off for the past week. Finally put it in sixth gear, cold started the bike, with clutch pulled in. It took me for a ride for about 10 feet and FREED UP! Problem solved, and I'll have a clutch cover gasket in hand for when I really need to open it up. Thanks again for all the advice and help. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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