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Changing fork seals


bitNine

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Got my 2010 VFR1200FD a couple months ago, and during that time the forks started leaking oil. I tried to fix them with a SealMate, but it just didn't work. So, time to swap out the fork seals. I've never had to do them before, but I watched a few vids. Easy enough. I bought a couple tools and all the parts and oil. Got everything out of the bike last night, and opened one up. Immediately there's a problem. I can't get the damper cap off because I can't hold it anywhere else to unscrew it. There's a sleeve covering the spring. Well, crap...

 

So I looked at the service manual, and there's VERY special tools that are used to disassemble. I've been brainstorming since yesterday on how to build something similar to what I see in the service manual, but I thought I'd check to see if there's an easier way to do this that I'm just not seeing. You have to put a special tool in the two holes at the top of the sleeve and use those holes to pull the sleeve in order to access another point that will allow me to undo the cap. It also is real explicit in that the holes should not be damaged, so I have to be careful.

Any ideas? I really do not want to take these to someone to do it for me. I know once I can get the cap off, the rest is easy.

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From the look of the service manual, you could unscrew the damper rod bolt in the end of the fork leg, that will allow you to extract the complete damper/spring/cap assembly in one piece. Once you have that out,it should be an easier job to compress the spring enough to unscrew the cap. Otherwise you will need to devise something to pull the spacer down to compress the spring while in place, maybe just a strong helper would do? It's only a fork spring after all. The holes in the spacer are not a critical part, just there to allow the tool to be used.

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That's a good point. I will take a look at that tonight. I bought a few nuts and bolts to hopefully build something that looks like the USA spring compressor tool within the service manual, that will give me a lever to compress the spring.

And you know, I thought the same thing about the holes in the sleeve. I don't understand why the service manual says to take care not to damage them. I didn't think they were something critical.

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Take some pictures as well.  As the 1200 starts to age this might come up again and again...  The more you document now, the more you will help someone out in the future.

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1 minute ago, crakerjac said:

Take some pictures as well.  As the 1200 starts to age this might come up again and again...  The more you document now, the more you will help someone out in the future.

Exactly. I definitely will. I couldn't find ANYTHING anywhere else on someone actually doing this. Every video I watched about an inverted fork (or regular) didn't have a sleeve involved.

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Always crack the caps loose with the forks installed in the triple yoke(s) before you drop them out.  Same with the final torque during re-installation.

Cheers!

 

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You could make one with a pipe coupler, (ABS, Brass, or even Galvanized). Drill a hole all the way through both sides, then tap the holes, and install bolts that have the last 1/8" - 1/4" ground down to fit the two holes - i.e. a bolt with a "tit" on the end. 

 

If you don't have taps, or the pipe is too thin-walled, just drill a hole all the way through both sides, and put an outside, and an inside nut on each side - even easier.....probably less than $10 at home depot....

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11 minutes ago, RC1237V said:

You could make one with a pipe coupler, (ABS, Brass, or even Galvanized). Drill a hole all the way through both sides, then tap the holes, and install bolts that have the last 1/8" - 1/4" ground down to fit the two holes - i.e. a bolt with a "tit" on the end. 

 

If you don't have taps, or the pipe is too thin-walled, just drill a hole all the way through both sides, and put an outside, and an inside nut on each side - even easier.....probably less than $10 at home depot....

This is along the lines of what I was thinking. I didn't think about using pipe though... good call.

 

I ended up building this:

 

 

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2 hours ago, VFRpwr said:

Always crack the caps loose with the forks installed in the triple yoke(s) before you drop them out.  Same with the final torque during re-installation.

Cheers!

 

Boy, am I glad I watched more than a couple videos before starting to pull the bike apart, otherwise I don't think I would have done this. Such a simple tip!

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Very nice solution! Mine is leaking too, so I will use your design, but add it to my tire changing machine where the bead breaker fulcrum is.

 

Crap, just measured and it's too low......I will make a jig for the harbor freight press I just bought for the trans rebuild in the car.

 

Is there a counter-hold nut, or do you also have to hold the tube or rod while you loosen the nut? - haven't looked closely at the manual yet....

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1 hour ago, RC1237V said:

Very nice solution! Mine is leaking too, so I will use your design, but add it to my tire changing machine where the bead breaker fulcrum is.

 

Crap, just measured and it's too low......I will make a jig for the harbor freight press I just bought for the trans rebuild in the car.

 

Is there a counter-hold nut, or do you also have to hold the tube or rod while you loosen the nut? - haven't looked closely at the manual yet....

I actually had to get my wife to help me and hold the lever down while I loosened the nut then removed the cap from the rod. So, yes... the tube does need to be held down while the nut is loosened. That means I'll need her help 3 more times (back on, then off/on the other leg) since I haven't removed the other fork leg yet. Also, notice how I offset the foot on it? I did that on purpose, but what I didn't realize is that once my wife was holding down the lever, I was able to use that as a foot rest to keep the whole thing upright. The foot could also be a bit longer (as long as the lever) in order to tie the end of the lever to the end of the foot, and remove the need for a helper.

Just got the nut loosened, so I'll start removing everything else shortly and work on swapping the seals.

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bitNine, I'm impressed by your wood working and video skills! Thanks for showing that. You maybe need to add a right angle bracket off the vertical post that connects with the fork cap to hold it up, and then a strap to the  end of the lever to hold the compressed spring down, then you could dismiss your wife! (good luck with that last bit!!!). So far I've managed to do most workshop tasks solo, although it was useful to have my daughter step on the rear brake when I was undoing the countershaft sprocket bolt.

 

Wood is a much maligned workshop material, but it is fantastic in compression, and so easy to work.

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10 hours ago, swimmer said:

Traxxion sells the tools needed for fork work. 

Good to know. Looks like I saved myself about $35 over buying their tool, by building this one. I only spent about $7 and 20 minutes.

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2 minutes ago, crakerjac said:

Looks like you saved more than $35 if this is the tool...

http://www.traxxion.com/Fork-Service-Tool-Kit/

Over the kit, for sure. That tool by itself is $30+shipping. I bought a fork oil level tool in preparation for this. Though even with that compression tool, it seems like you'd still have to have a 3rd hand to insert the holder in there.

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Just finished up the first leg. Piece of cake once I was able to get past that stupid spring collar. The rest was just like a standard inverted fork. I could tell a huge difference between the old seals and the new one. Hope I didn't screw it up! Just got the other leg out, and I'll finish it up tomorrow and get the bike back together hopefully before our only dry day this week, on Thursday, to take it for a spin.

So far I've changed engine oil/filter, fork seals and oil. Next is final drive oil, then a brake system flush, and hopefully this baby will be ready for summer!

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I've changed mine to Ohlins and I removed the whole carts - I would recommend doing this if you want to change the seals only.

No need to hassle with spring removal - I used my electric impact on the fork leg allen bolts - they will come out very easily.

 

As for the seals I made my own seal driver form old PVC pipe - really no need to buy that expensive tools.

 

 

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I will be doing my fork seals on Sunday - do most shops sell the Ohlins fluid, and what weight is good - I read that most companies rate their fluid different ways so Honda 0 wt might be the same as Suzuki 5 wt...any suggestions?

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8 hours ago, veeefour said:

I've changed mine to Ohlins and I removed the whole carts - I would recommend doing this if you want to change the seals only.

No need to hassle with spring removal - I used my electric impact on the fork leg allen bolts - they will come out very easily.

 

As for the seals I made my own seal driver form old PVC pipe - really no need to buy that expensive tools.

 

 

If you don't disassemble the cartridge, how do you get the oil level correct? My understanding is that it's supposed to be done with the damper rod in place, but not the spring.

Seal driver was a tad expensive at $40, but it was certainly worth it. I looked at going the PVC pipe route, but figured that since I'm already saving $300 by doing it myself, I might as well get some new tools out of it :D

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4 minutes ago, RC1237V said:

I will be doing my fork seals on Sunday - do most shops sell the Ohlins fluid, and what weight is good - I read that most companies rate their fluid different ways so Honda 0 wt might be the same as Suzuki 5 wt...any suggestions?

I got the Honda 10 weight. Unfortunately, the shop didn't have much of a selection or I would have chosen something else. It feels firmer than it did before the change, but I have a feeling the oil in there was losing its viscosity.

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Whenever I change oil or seals I watch this guy...he's got some top tips.

 

 

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On 3/30/2017 at 5:26 AM, bitNine said:

If you don't disassemble the cartridge, how do you get the oil level correct? My understanding is that it's supposed to be done with the damper rod in place, but not the spring.

Seal driver was a tad expensive at $40, but it was certainly worth it. I looked at going the PVC pipe route, but figured that since I'm already saving $300 by doing it myself, I might as well get some new tools out of it :D

I'm always relying on capacity - 497 cm3 according to Honda where +- 3 doesn't make any difference.

 

As for the Ohlins NIX carts - they designed it a way that you don't need any compressor.

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5 minutes ago, veeefour said:

I'm always relying on capacity - 497 cm3 according to Honda where +- 3 doesn't make any difference.

 

As for the Ohlins NIX carts - they designed in a way that you don't need any compressor.

Seems like if I had relied on Honda's capacity, the shock would have been overfilled. It called for 16.8oz, but at 160mm measurement it was less than 15.5oz, and that's after allowing each shock to sit upside-down for more than 24 hours.

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