Bret Posted March 6, 2017 Share Posted March 6, 2017 I'm new to the forum but I've already received some amazing tips re: mods. I just purchased own a Y2K 5th gen CA bike with only 11K miles that is 100% stock. Next week, I'm taking delivery of a '99 5th gen from FLA (49 state) that has 44K miles and loads of rare aftermarket bits. My plan is to swap performance/ ergo parts onto the low mileage CA bike, then re-sell the donor bike as stock. I have read that 49 State bikes have a few key differences namely cams, ECU and no O2, cats, etc. Since my plan is to sell the donor bike with stock parts, would swapping the ECU, cams, headers be worth the time/ effort? Guessing it would only effect power/ torque slightly, but better for fine tuning via PCIII. Any thoughts or opinions would be appreciated. Pics of my Y2K: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Member Contributer Burns Posted March 6, 2017 Member Contributer Share Posted March 6, 2017 Cams look to be the same according to part numbers.. ECU looks to be different - that's an easy swap. you probably have an evap canister/system on the CA bike that wouldn't be there on the 49-state bike. The '99 will be cat-less headers which make the PCiii happy - gets rid of the o2 sensors. The big issue is how closely your state inspections monitor the smog stuff being there or not. All things being equal, 99 pipes, o2's gone, emissions stuff gone, a slip-on, high-flow air filter, PCiii mapped accordingly, you'll still typically only be gaining 4-6hp at the rear, from what I've seen. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bret Posted March 6, 2017 Author Share Posted March 6, 2017 Thanks Burns. Seems like I noticed several folks mention that there were different cams for non CA bikes. Great to hear that is not the case. As as for inspection, they don't check smog gear, only that lights function and numbers match on engine and frame. Still seems like like it would be worth at least swapping exhaust, O2, ECU and removing all exteraneous smog stuff while I have the donor bike. PCIII sounds like a must have at that point. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Member Contributer Burns Posted March 6, 2017 Member Contributer Share Posted March 6, 2017 just picked up an '00 myself, so I'm right in the middle of all this also.. PAIR and flapper have been removed, picking up the 99 pipes soon.. I don't have to deal w/ all the evap junk at least. 330ohm resisters can be used as o2 eliminators, btw.. if you search, you'll see how they pin-out. I've read that the pipercross filter is the way to go, but you'll have to order that out of England.. ;) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bret Posted March 6, 2017 Author Share Posted March 6, 2017 Looks like the cams ARE different part numbers from CA and non (see images). Back to the drawing board. If anyone can confirm advantages to the non CA cams I'd appreciate it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Member Contributer JZH Posted March 6, 2017 Member Contributer Share Posted March 6, 2017 There's not much difference in performance, AFAIK. I did some worldwide comparisons for a closed thread about "unleashing factory power" you might find amusing... (For a minute there I thought you might have been the same Brett in the Bay Area I bought my Y2k from in '08, having had a change of heart and wanting to re-live his lost VFR experience!) Ciao, Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bret Posted March 7, 2017 Author Share Posted March 7, 2017 2 hours ago, JZH said: There's not much difference in performance, AFAIK. I did some worldwide comparisons for a closed thread about "unleashing factory power" you might find amusing... Tried to review the thread, but got 15 pages in and crosseyed. If there's truly no big difference, I'd be happy b/c I don't really want to swap cams. In the unleashing power thread, I did learn about the Rapid Bike programming which sounds like it uses the O2 sensors. Now I'm a bit concerned about removing them. I'll try to call them to sort out how their system works. 2 hours ago, JZH said: (For a minute there I thought you might have been the same Brett in the Bay Area I bought my Y2k from in '08, having had a change of heart and wanting to re-live his lost VFR experience!) Ciao, No sir. My recent acquisition is my first VFR. Sold my '09 Multistrada and I actually like the 5th gen better. It's like the perfect motorcycle. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Member Contributer mello dude Posted March 7, 2017 Member Contributer Share Posted March 7, 2017 Gotta jump in on this one..... My '98 is a CA model that I bought off a guy in Indianapolis off ebay. After I purchased it was roughly 4 weeks later that I figured that out. (Pissed - How does a CA model make to to Indiana?) --- Anyhoo I was ok/happy until I rode marriedman's 49 state bike, and I can tell you the difference from 7K to top got my attention. Revs and pulls way quicker/harder. So I have been dreaming/scheming that cam change ever since. VFRcapn of our fine group here physically did the cam swap and measured the lift differences at around 1mm more with the 49 state cams. There is a thread on that one if you can find it. I'm not gonna guess what power a CA bike is giving up, but it is there. - You do have to find a '99 model ECU to get it work too. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bret Posted March 7, 2017 Author Share Posted March 7, 2017 Thanks for jumping in! So, if I were able to complete the swap, couldn't I simply use the ECU from 99 bike and transplant the removed CA cam and ECU onto the 99? I will be selling the bike in CA so as long as it works, right? ? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Member Contributer mello dude Posted March 7, 2017 Member Contributer Share Posted March 7, 2017 15 minutes ago, Bret said: Thanks for jumping in! So, if I were able to complete the swap, couldn't I simply use the ECU from 99 bike and transplant the removed CA cam and ECU onto the 99? I will be selling the bike in CA so as long as it works, right? ? That's what I would do, but inspect wear on the '99 cams. Not saying there will be any wear, but I think it would be a good step to take. I would be a touch paranoid of using a higher mile cam set. But yeah, in general, do the switcheroo.... I'm sure the peanut gallery will jump in with some pros and cons. My beer buzz might have forgot something.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cat0020 Posted March 7, 2017 Share Posted March 7, 2017 Leave it stock.. it will likely run better and last longer. Unless you can tell the difference in performance and really ride the stock bike to its performance limits all the time; yet still find it lacking in performance.. then start thinking about mods. Why mod a bike when you can't ride it to its limits in OEM form? Time/efforts/money are better spent with long trips, trackdays or better tires to improve actual riding experience. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bret Posted March 7, 2017 Author Share Posted March 7, 2017 22 minutes ago, cat0020 said: Leave it stock.. it will likely run better and last longer. Why mod a bike when you can't ride it to its limits in OEM form? Time/efforts/money are better spent with long trips, trackdays or better tires to improve actual riding experience. Great point. The more I thought about all the work, the more I considered this point of view. Especially since I have a CBR project already in the works. The easy alternative is to simply swap the simple and expensive aftermarket components, do suspension tuning and call it a day. Still very interested in the Rapid Bike tuning though. Good thing my GF and I don't share a bank account or she would have already shot me in the face by now. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Member Contributer JZH Posted March 7, 2017 Member Contributer Share Posted March 7, 2017 19 hours ago, mello dude said: Gotta jump in on this one..... My '98 is a CA model that I bought off a guy in Indianapolis off ebay. After I purchased it was roughly 4 weeks later that I figured that out. (Pissed - How does a CA model make to to Indiana?) --- Anyhoo I was ok/happy until I rode marriedman's 49 state bike, and I can tell you the difference from 7K to top got my attention. Revs and pulls way quicker/harder. So I have been dreaming/scheming that cam change ever since. VFRcapn of our fine group here physically did the cam swap and measured the lift differences at around 1mm more with the 49 state cams. There is a thread on that one if you can find it. I'm not gonna guess what power a CA bike is giving up, but it is there. - You do have to find a '99 model ECU to get it work too. Well, the differences might be a little less obvious with a supercharger... Ciao, Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bret Posted March 7, 2017 Author Share Posted March 7, 2017 4 minutes ago, JZH said: Well, the differences might be a little less obvious with a supercharger... Ciao, Now if they were still making superchargers, I wouldn't have these issues. ? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Member Contributer mello dude Posted March 8, 2017 Member Contributer Share Posted March 8, 2017 4 hours ago, JZH said: Well, the differences might be a little less obvious with a supercharger... Ciao, Lol.. That's cheating. I forgot about yours. When's the last time you rode it.? Gathering dust? I would be happy to plan an excursion around paying it a visit and give it some excersize for a few days..? j/k Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Member Contributer mello dude Posted March 8, 2017 Member Contributer Share Posted March 8, 2017 4 hours ago, Bret said: Now if they were still making superchargers, I wouldn't have these issues. ? Bret you could give the FLA bike a good ride and see if the difference is worth it to you. In the some day column...If you do a valve clearance check and you find one out of spec, guess what? Cam's gotta come out. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Member Contributer Mohawk Posted March 9, 2017 Member Contributer Share Posted March 9, 2017 As the Dude says, if you have both bikes, then ride them back to back & see how they feel. The 99 model 49 state bike should be ridden first, this will set the baseline, then if the CA bike does not match that even with more time in the saddle, you will have your answer. The CA bike definately has different cams & ECU, plus less power than the 49 state bike. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bret Posted March 9, 2017 Author Share Posted March 9, 2017 I wish it was that easy. The 49 bike has a Wolf system and my CA bike is stock. The amazing sound alone is likely to throw me and my butt dyno off. ? I will try to do this though. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Member Contributer Burns Posted March 9, 2017 Member Contributer Share Posted March 9, 2017 12 minutes ago, Bret said: I wish it was that easy. The 49 bike has a Wolf system and my CA bike is stock. The amazing sound alone is likely to throw me and my butt dyno off. ? I will try to do this though. dyno app for your phone maybe? :) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cat0020 Posted March 10, 2017 Share Posted March 10, 2017 I get more enrichment from the journeys I take on the bike vs the money I spent on the bike to change the performance.. Take a weekend off and ride off to some place you've never been; stay at some place interesting you see along the way... splurge on experience and make some memorable moments along the way. If you really want to get to know the difference between the two VFRs; take them both onto the track, back to back and really feel the difference in performance. Then if you feel that one is really lacking behind the other, or performance is lacking behind vs your riding ability, proceed with mods. Strapped to the bike to Dyno no going anywhere is waste of money if you don't have the skills to use all that torque/hp on the road. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bret Posted March 12, 2017 Author Share Posted March 12, 2017 So...just had the new bike fully gone thru and the professional opinion is that the 49 state bike w/ 44K miles is perfect. Master mechanic said that if he was told the bike had 5K miles, he would have believed it. This then makes my decision a bit more challenging. My question to the forum is... considering both bikes are in similar condition, would I be better off parting with the 11K stock CA bike or cannibalizing some minor bits off the 49 and parting with that bike. I know I still need to ride both when the 49 arrives (it's being shipped). Just vacillating back and forth on miles. Perhaps I shouldn't hold the 11K in such high regard. I do want to keep a 5th gen forever so that is also a consideration. Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Member Contributer sfdownhill Posted March 12, 2017 Member Contributer Share Posted March 12, 2017 Bret, the 49st vs CA camshaft question has had me curious too, because I have a 2001 CA VFR with 1998 headers, Staintune slipon, and PCIII, waiting on my Pipercross air filter to arrive. The PCIII was dyno tuned to a staggering [Heh] 99hp, but the torque and power curves are smooth, even, and linear through out the rev range. It rides just like the dyno chart says it should. Mohawk, JZH, and Mello Dude are great [Mohawk created a fully dialed 5 gen putting out a true 120hp at the wheel. I still have to refrain from adding 'rear' to 'wheel' when talking hp...what other wheel would power be measured at? Front?]. I consider them to be among the finest engineers and project-realizers here. You can count on any insight they offer. So, back to the curiousity: I made a spreadsheet and looked up Honda part numbers for the VFR's front exhaust cam, front intake cam, rear intake cam, and rear exhaust cam. Almost every time I look up a part number and examine an exploded parts diagram, I am wowed by the engineering. Simple stuff like the v-four configuration having intake valves and cams in the middle of the V and exhaust cams and valves on the outside of the V. Throttle bodies in the middle, exhaust headers on the outside. There's really no other good way to configure a v-four, but the parts diagrams display that the VFR was thought out and done right. But I digress. Turns out that I didn't need a spread sheet for cam part numbers because all 2000-2001 VFRs [49-state and CA] use the same part number cams as the 1998-1999 49 state VFR. The 1998-1999 CA VFR uses the different cams. Just to cross-check, I ran through all four years, 49 state and CA, on Partzilla and RMATVMC. Same data from both sources [Though Honda supplies both vendors w parts info]. Good luck with your cross-cannibalization project. It sounds fun to sort out the parts from two bikes and put all the best bits onto one to optimize the better platform. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Member Contributer mello dude Posted March 12, 2017 Member Contributer Share Posted March 12, 2017 4 hours ago, Bret said: So...just had the new bike fully gone thru and the professional opinion is that the 49 state bike w/ 44K miles is perfect. Master mechanic said that if he was told the bike had 5K miles, he would have believed it. This then makes my decision a bit more challenging. My question to the forum is... considering both bikes are in similar condition, would I be better off parting with the 11K stock CA bike or cannibalizing some minor bits off the 49 and parting with that bike. I know I still need to ride both when the 49 arrives (it's being shipped). Just vacillating back and forth on miles. Perhaps I shouldn't hold the 11K in such high regard. I do want to keep a 5th gen forever so that is also a consideration. Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk Hi Bret -- I can tell you my history is that when I go look for a certain bike and I know my plan is to keep it "forever" -- I look for the absolute cleanest, lowest mile bike possible. Photos of your 11K bike meet that category. - - I'm not saying the 44k bike is undesirable. But I look at is as... things will maintenance/go wrong sooner on the 44k bike vs the 11k bike -- I know others here will debate this, but it works for me. -- I almost did the same thing you are doing. If the bike I was interested in was instate, I think I would have jumped at it. Advise? Get the FLA bike in your possession ride 'em and then decide. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bret Posted March 12, 2017 Author Share Posted March 12, 2017 Turns out that I didn't need a spread sheet for cam part numbers because all 2000-2001 VFRs [49-state and CA] use the same part number cams as the 1998-1999 49 state VFR. The 1998-1999 CA VFR uses the different cams. This sounds right. The '99 49st has different cams than my Y2K CA. Does your VFRD username imply that you live in SF? That's where I am so knowing, and sharing information with, another local VFR enthusiast would be awesome. Thanks for your thoughts! Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Member Contributer mello dude Posted March 12, 2017 Member Contributer Share Posted March 12, 2017 3 hours ago, sfdownhill said: Turns out that I didn't need a spread sheet for cam part numbers because all 2000-2001 VFRs [49-state and CA] use the same part number cams as the 1998-1999 49 state VFR. The 1998-1999 CA VFR uses the different cams. Just to cross-check, I ran through all four years, 49 state and CA, on Partzilla and RMATVMC. Same data from both sources [Though Honda supplies both vendors w parts info]. My bad.... I was considering the '98 and '99 CA bikes. (sry for the commotion ) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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