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Snapped Centerstand Bolt - Had Blue Loctite in it


WalkThisWhey

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EDIT - put "sidestand" originally in title and body, it was really the centerstand.

 

Was removing my centerstand for some exhaust work.  The first bolt I went to remove was tight, like really tight.  I thought this made sense since it's something supporting the weight of the whole bike.  Out comes the breaker bar, twist, and snap :(

 

On part of the threads there was some blue, so I know it was the blue Loctite.  The previous owner definetly put it there, it didn't look like the threadlocker that a factory would use.

 

So I have a broken bolt with blue Loctite on it.  Bolt isn't flush, it's recessed into the hole.  This hole goes all the way through, so theoretically you can keep tightening the screw and it will fall out the other side.

 

If it didn't have the Loctite on it, I'd try to use a screw extractor, but I'm not sure here.  Plus the bolt hole is aluminum so I don't want to strip anything.  Any idea on what to do here?  I can ride without a centerstand but I'd like to have one for working on it.

 

 

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Heat kills loctite. I'd drill a hole through the bolt, tickle it with a propane torch and then undo it with your favourite bolt extractor.

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They are known to come loose, so I wouldn't be surprised that the previous owner used loctite.

 

Not knowing your degree of mechanical prowess: Did you remove the small bolt (17) for the sidestand switch first? Did you slacken the nut (18) before trying to undo the bolt (15) as well? 

 

Here's the IPC for the sidestand:

 

F__2500.jpg

 

 

 

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Ok I'm an idiot and and was tired from working on it all day, I snapped the CENTER STAND bolt!  Number 16 to be exact

 

Think using a soldering iron on it will work?  I'm nervous about using a torch in that it will discolor or damage the body around the bolt hole

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Good thing is, you still have the side stand yes?

 

I would step back now and let it be for now. Grab lunch and think it through...

 

Rather then welding/soldering, why not attempt to get the snapped bolt out?

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Ahhh. The bolt you tried to undo is a left hand-thread; it's ok, I made the same mistake! Blue loctite is applied from the factory as well on this one. Drilling out the remnants of the bolt is possible, but you will need to be careful not to snap the drill bit, otherwise there's no chance of removal and you'll need to find another rear cushion (aluminium bracket).

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46 minutes ago, Loftust said:

Ahhh. The bolt you tried to undo is a left hand-thread; it's ok, I made the same mistake! Blue loctite is applied from the factory as well on this one. Drilling out the remnants of the bolt is possible, but you will need to be careful not to snap the drill bit, otherwise there's no chance of removal and you'll need to find another rear cushion (aluminium bracket).

 

Oh this is getting even better!  I've never drilled out a bolt before, let alone a left-hand threaded one.  I'm going to go ahead and guess that normal screw extractors are out of the question here?

 

I do have the normal sidestand so I can ride thankfully.

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The best way to get it out is to weld the nut on the broken bolt with a MIG welder.  The heat will break the bond between steel and aluminum and you will be able to turn it out.

Drilling a steel bolt out of aluminum is next to impossible especially in such a difficult location.  The bit will inevitably go sideways into aluminum and will mess up the whole bracket.  Personal experience here.

You can also buy a new bracket - Shouldn't be that expensive.

 

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You should be able to use a stud extractor to remove the bolt, i.e. turn the bolt further into the bracket and remove from the inside. You'd need a pilot hole obviously, and would need to be rather gentile so as not to snap the bit, but it can be done - my mistake was allowing an impatient ape to do it.

 

Your other options are:

 

- Weld another bolt to the stud and extract as per usual, but you risk damaging the rear cushion, which is aluminium.

- Remove and replace the rear cushion - a secondhand one should be cheap enough, but you'd need to support the bike on something other than the stands, and is likely to be a fiddly job.

- Drill and helicoil if you make a hash of it.

 

You'll need some sort of spring puller to refit the centre stand springs btw - I got a small cheap one off eBay that did the trick nicely, and didn't require as much force as I had thought.

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You'd need to remember that the bolt is reverse threaded, so if you try an extractor be sure it is intended for reverse threaded bolts.

The rear cushion is usually available on ebay for around $20 or so. It's almost certain that the breaker selling it did not know that bolt is reverse threaded, and therefor hammered it with the biggest impact gun he could find and also snapped the head off. I've seen 2 different ones that came that way. Even tried drilling it out with a reverse bit and made a mess of it. It was a spare for a modification, so we never actually "fixed" it.

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19 hours ago, Loftust said:

You should be able to use a stud extractor to remove the bolt, i.e. turn the bolt further into the bracket and remove from the inside. You'd need a pilot hole obviously, and would need to be rather gentile so as not to snap the bit, but it can be done - my mistake was allowing an impatient ape to do it.

 

Your other options are:

 

- Weld another bolt to the stud and extract as per usual, but you risk damaging the rear cushion, which is aluminium.

- Remove and replace the rear cushion - a secondhand one should be cheap enough, but you'd need to support the bike on something other than the stands, and is likely to be a fiddly job.

- Drill and helicoil if you make a hash of it.

 

You'll need some sort of spring puller to refit the centre stand springs btw - I got a small cheap one off eBay that did the trick nicely, and didn't require as much force as I had thought.

So this is an idea I've been playing around with a bit because of the open end on the other side.  Basically I'd like to use propane to heat up the Loctite, and then find a way to thread the screw so it's driven further into hole and it will fall out inside like you say.

 

Welding is out - it's not broken flus, and is recessed into the hole.

 

I'm guessing I can take a standard screw extractor to drive it in since the counter clockwise turning with drive this reverse thread into the hole further?

 

How the heck am I supposed to know this thing is reverse threaded anyway?

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3 hours ago, WalkThisWhey said:

So this is an idea I've been playing around with a bit because of the open end on the other side.  Basically I'd like to use propane to heat up the Loctite, and then find a way to thread the screw so it's driven further into hole and it will fall out inside like you say.

 

Welding is out - it's not broken flus, and is recessed into the hole.

 

I'm guessing I can take a standard screw extractor to drive it in since the counter clockwise turning with drive this reverse thread into the hole further?

 

How the heck am I supposed to know this thing is reverse threaded anyway?

 

That's my thinking...if you get a regular extractor and turn it in the direction that you'd do for a regular bolt, it should turn further into the cushion, and straight out the other side.

 

I found out via the parts diagrams - the clue is in the name. A friend of mine said that centre stand bolts always have a left hand thread on one side - live and learn eh?!

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UPDATE: I got the bolt out!

 

Full album: 

 

 

I actually went with a standard thread tap vs. an EZ Out.  The reason being if I tried to push the bolt out the other side and I screwed it up, now I have bolt that is further recessed in, and even going at it through the back way isn't a guarantee (and in a more difficult spot).  The standard thread tap turns right, the same direction this reverse thread bolt needed to go.  If it bites enough, it'll turn...which it did :)

 

A big thank you to this Pirate4x4 thread that gave me the idea (user D60). Also shout out to Google for indexing it and allowing me to find it.

 

Steps to removing a reverse thread bolt

  1. Have Propane torch, drill, penetrating oil, and thread tap
  2. Drill pilot hole, then larger hole for thread tap into the bolt.
  3. Heat the hell out of the bolt.
  4. Begin tapping thread within the bolt. GO SLOW and don't force anything, use a thread lubricant (I used PB Blaster) to be safe.
  5. If you're feeling too much tension, stop and repeat step 3 and heat up the bolt some more.
  6. If the universe likes you, you'll feel that wonderful twist from the thread tap biting enough to get the threads moving

Glad that's over. Now to put the downpipe on, change the oil, change brake fluid, install a voltmeter, replace a fuse holder, and....the projects never end and yet I still do them! :)

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  • 2 weeks later...
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Just FYI for future readers of this thread...  the blue thread locker compound is in fact factory-applied, at least on 2007s.  Just pulled my centerstand off (luckily I caught the reverse-threaded aspect before I went full Berserker on the bolt).

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  • 3 weeks later...
On 3/11/2017 at 8:00 PM, carlitos92 said:

Just FYI for future readers of this thread...  the blue thread locker compound is in fact factory-applied, at least on 2007s.  Just pulled my centerstand off (luckily I caught the reverse-threaded aspect before I went full Berserker on the bolt).

Confirmed, the new bolt I bought had blue loctite from Honda.

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These bolts have a threadlock of some type, but one difference from Loctite is that it is DRY, not wet, so it won't affect the torque reading as much (if at all). 

 

Ciao,

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  • 5 weeks later...
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As far as I know it is the bolt on the right hand side of the bike that is the LH thread.

In the parts list above it is item 13

 

From the 2009 VFR800 parts list it is item 12 as shown below

Centrestand.thumb.jpg.f42eb0e5954facac635164ee13d1a17a.jpg

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I just took mine off (2000) and BOTH centerstand bolts were traditional right hand thread!!!  I tightened about 1/8 past over torqued (righty tighty)...and since the bolt moved, I tried lefty loosey--voila!...out she came.  Cemterstand is off and headers are back on.  Trackday ready now.

 

Who is perpetuating what, to me, is a myth of one of those bolts is LH thread?

 

Matt 

Haymarket, vA

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I like this thread; always looking for techniques to deal with problems. But I do not know what a thread tap is. Unless it is the tap side of the tap and die things. If that's the case you threaded a tap exactly like the tap that put the threads in in the first place, at the factory?

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I think he means a much smaller diameter tap, working it into a same smaller diameter predrilled hole in the head or shaft of what's left of the bolt you wish to get unstuck (the latter being a reverse thread and the former being conventional thread direction)

 

 

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8 minutes ago, Auspanglish said:

I think he means a much smaller diameter tap, working it into a same smaller diameter predrilled hole in the head or shaft of what's left of the bolt you wish to get unstuck (the latter being a reverse thread and the former being conventional thread direction)

 

 

Is the use of a smaller tap (as opposed to an easy out) because it was a left-hand thread?

 

P.S. I've never had any luck using an easy out.

 

Never mind; I reread your post. I see that that is the case.

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It's the same idea as an eazyout, which essentially is a left handed thread tap for extracting right hand threaded bolts. Although they do come in right hand threads for reverse thread bolts. The difference I understand is that the easy out has a slightly spiralled shape to it characteristic of that particular brand name. They also usually come in a more brittle metal so they will break before ruining the original thread from over torquing.

I figure that's why the op was erring on the side of caution if noticing too much friction and returning to heating and lubing before further attempts as a proper tap is typically made of much stronger metal in order to fulfill its original purpose.

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6 hours ago, zupatun said:

I just took mine off (2000) and BOTH centerstand bolts were traditional right hand thread!!!  I tightened about 1/8 past over torqued (righty tighty)...and since the bolt moved, I tried lefty loosey--voila!...out she came.  Cemterstand is off and headers are back on.  Trackday ready now.

 

Who is perpetuating what, to me, is a myth of one of those bolts is LH thread?

 

Matt 

Haymarket, vA

Maybe it's a 5th gen thing, but my 6th gen was definetly left hand thread on the right side of the bike.

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4 hours ago, MaxSwell said:

Is the use of a smaller tap (as opposed to an easy out) because it was a left-hand thread?

 

P.S. I've never had any luck using an easy out.

 

Never mind; I reread your post. I see that that is the case.

Because this was a reverse threaded bolt, a traditional easy out would not work - it would basically just drill the bolt in deeper if it caught.

 

What I did was use a normal thread tap INTO THE BROKEN BOLT.  I drilled a smaller hole into the broken bolt, then used a normal thread tap into the broken bolt.  Normal thread taps are meant to turn "right" and and bore into the hole.  Since I needed the bolt to go "right" in order to back out of the hole because it is a reverse thread screw, what I was hoping to do was have the thread tap bite hard enough into the bolt so that the entire bolt would turn vs. the thread tap spinning alone. 

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