Another new member...another restoration/slight modification

[Loftust]

4 hours ago, SEBSPEED said:

I like the satin black frame/gloss black swingarm combo, nice work.

 

Both the frame and swingarm are satin black - I didn't want take a photo with my grubby paw marks all over it, so cleaned the swingarm with a wet wipe immediately beforehand, hence the glossy look. Having refurbished one swingarm, I wouldn't be dead against doing another if I wasn't happy with the colour or finish - it was actually one of the easier jobs 

 

I collected the generator cover this afternoon, delivered the wheels to the painters, and collected the exhaust from my friend's workshop. I managed to find a powdercoat colour that I was happy with, which should give a more durable finished versus two pack paint, which is a bit of a result. The exhaust flange (I love that word) is, thanks to the mild steel exhaust clamps, quite crusty, and will require some TLC at a later date, namely the replacement of the reducer where the link pipe joins the collector.

[zoomzoom]

4 hours ago, Loftust said:

 

You sir are a gentlemen! 

 

I will most likely take you up on your kind offer, and would naturally cover the necessary costs. I've got tons of stuff going on at the moment, so will sort those out and give you a shout when I'm a tad less snowed under 

 

I'm glad it will go to someone who really wants it so you are welcome to the fuel cap.  It will truly be an imported part.  LOL.  Here is a YouTube link to how to remove and swap the lock cylinders.

 

 

[Loftust]

Relatively good progress was achieved today 

 

The exhaust is on, although I'll be using jubilee clips to temporarily connect it to the collector. The pannier mounts are also on - they will be coming off again to fit the rear fairing and tail light, but it's good to know they aren't too fiddly. 

 

I cleaned up the rotor and was halfway through installing the stator into the cover when realised that the VTEC stator bolts are ~ 4mm longer than the Fi ones! I don't know what the hell I did with the Fi bolts, so I'll need to source myself a set before I can refit the stator and fill the engine oil.

 

I'm collecting a chain linking tool tomorrow, thanks to the very kind Skids. This will allow me to fit the chain, and the guard thereafter. I forgot just how ugly the guard is - it's nearly as bad as the rear fender! 

 

My GF will hopefully be collecting the new brake lines tomorrow, so I'll get in with those next week.

 

The tank is good to go as well - so I'll get that fitted to the bike and will stick some fuel in it.

 

The rear pads arrived today, so they went on, although I'm still waiting for the dogbone washers before I can fit that.

 

Before I can fire her up, I'll need to source and install a PCIII (loaded with a 5th Gen base map), and temporarily secure the coils into the cam covers. I'm still waiting for the prototype cam cover adaptor to rock up. The plugs themselves also need changing, the oil needs filling, and so does the coolant; the latter will obviously require bleeding once the bike is running.

 

Assuming all goes well (I'm hopeful, but realistic) I'll need to fill the brakes and clutch with fluid, bleed those whilst checking for leaks, check the operation of the clutch gearbox, and fit the bodywork, including the nose cone, mirrors and their extenders.

 

The front wheel will also need the new bearings to be installed once powdercoated, and the discs can then go on before the wheel itself goes on the bike. 

 

There are a few other jobs that will need to be done once the bike is reassembled, including setting up the forks/sag, adjusting the starter valves, checking that the major bolts ate correctly torqued, and adjusting the head bearings. The risers will go on at some point too!

[Loftust]

The airbox came back off today as I'd consulted the service manual and realised I had the harness all over the place - it's now routed correctly and the airbox is back on.

 

I tool delivery of a parcel from Germany as well today - it was like Christmas all over again! 

 

A few other odds and sods arrived, including mirrors, which I won't get to fit til tomorrow evening at the very earliest, but probably more like the weekend. A few other jobs take priority however; being able to fill the oil and coolant are the main ones.

 

I've got a feeling that I may need to swap the flywheel before the generator cover can go on - I think the VTEC stator is larger than the Fi one, although we didn't have the recall over here. As the VTEC engine has sat outside under a tarpaulin, it's probably got a nice coating of rust, which may prohibit me from using it. I need to measure both rotors so that I can be certain whether I need to replace it or not.

 

Other than that, I'm not too far from being able to start her up!

[Loftust]

Oh go on then, you may as well take look at the newly painted nose cone and non-ginger indicators:

 

[3dcycle]

meh not bad...

 

 

 

I joke I joke looking good, though RWB looks better. I am biased though

[Loftust]

16 minutes ago, 3dcycle said:

meh not bad...

 

 

 

I joke I joke looking good, though RWB looks better. I am biased though

 

British colours look great on anything ;-)

[Skids]

5th/6th Gen alternators are definitely different sizes. The one on my old Fi-W died years ago on the way to a weekend rideout/meet. I managed to source one at a nearby breakers yard but it turned out to be off a Vtec and did not fit.

 

HTH.

[Marooncobra]

1 hour ago, Skids said:

5th/6th Gen alternators are definitely different sizes. The one on my old Fi-W died years ago on the way to a weekend rideout/meet. I managed to source one at a nearby breakers yard but it turned out to be off a Vtec and did not fit.

 

HTH.

 

Not all 6 gen are the same size either, Honda increased the size of the stator and flywheel during 2002.  I know this as I had to upgrade to the bigger size when I fitted HID projectors to give me more power to run them.

[Loftust]

Cheers guys - I'm half tempted to purchase a later flywheel and new stator, too, given that the VTEC one has 70k on it.

 

Having driven to South Wales and back today, I wasn't left with much time or light this evening to do anything particularly meaningful. I did however fit the battery and hook it up to the harness, as well as repair a wire that the old alarm had cut into.

 

This subsequently permitted me to fit and test the new LED tail light, which also came with a different flasher relay. All was well, so I'll get myself a small LED plate light, wire that in, fit the rear fairing and finish off the pair race install. 

 

I will have the prototype cam cover adaptor in my paws tomorrow evening, and looking forward to seeing if my measurements and rudimentary drawing were any good! 

 

I feel close to being able to push the starter button, but have a few fairly fundamental jobs to do first. Taking a look at the flywheels will need daylight, so I've had to push that job back the weekend when we may have a brief flurry of snow; this is a big deal for many in the south of England who are flummoxed by a single snowflake...

[Skids]

4 minutes ago, Loftust said:

....; this is a big deal for many in the south of England who are flummoxed by a single snowflake...

 

Haha....I'm away on a course at the moment and the snow is forecast to hit just as I set off for my cross-country run home.

[MickW]

I was also an engineer in the military (combat engineer for a few years, then to school for mechanical for power generation), so hats off to you for finding a project worthy of your talents.  As for the 5th Gen swap, nice choice and ambitious.  I hope the fabbed adapters work out, I'm curious to see the results.

 

If I had torn my bike down as completely as you have yours, routing the rear brake line through the swingarm would have been simplicity itself.

 

Best of luck with the build, keep up the good work.

[Auspanglish]

Very nice work.

I too have mostly done my wrenching at the end of a cul-de-sac or dead end Street or on the pavement in the quietest part of my Barrio so I can appreciate the ingenuity required and creative solutions to space, security and inclement weather.

I think you have the perfect hybrid for a VFR: the VTEC rolling chassis and the 5th gen motor with GDC.

Just my two cents worth, I would stick with the 5th gen rotor and stator these babies never die. The 6th gen stator is famous for burning out which is probably in my opinion due to a design fault in a vtec oil conduit covering a breather passageway from the motor which allows oil into the alternator chamber for refrigeration purposes BUT just in case there's something inherent in the stator from the 6th gen itself, be it size or whatever. The 6th June is famous for critical meltdown of the stator. I have only ever seen one 5th gen burn a stator amongst many over here in the Spanish vfr Club over hundreds of thousands of miles and maybe 200 5th gen vfr motorcycles.

Looking forward to the finished product but enjoying the chronicles along the way

Postscript
Then again the optics are 6th gen and perhaps the 5th gen alternator isn't cut out in terms of output.

It occurs to me, your project will be the proving ground as to whether the VTEC conduit, which does not exist in the 5th gen motor, is actually responsible for the massive failure of 6th gen stators. If you use 6th gen rotor and stator in the absence of said conduit and your Stator does not suffer premature dejection (jejeje) then my theory will be proven.

My hypothesis: http://www.vfrdiscussion.com/index.php?/topic/76182-Stator-Bbq-Fix

[Dutchy]

1 hour ago, Auspanglish said:

then my theory will be proven.

My hypothesis: http://www.vfrdiscussion.com/index.php?/topic/76182-Stator-Bbq-Fix
 

 

 

 

 

 

That's all fake news!!!!

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Nah, just kidding, I believe you are on to something.

[Loftust]

There certainly is some evidence to underpin the claim that the oil pipe is responsible for the premature failure of so many 6th gen stators. That said, I haven't read the thread in full - it's a bit of beast eh?!

 

I am reticent to fit the 5th gen to my bike, primarily becuase of the additional juice that the headlights require, but also because the wiring is too short on the Fi stator, and the plug type is different. Don't get me wrong, altering tha would be a cinch, but I will also be fitting heated grips (which arrived a couple of days ago) which will place a further strain on the charging system, and I don't particularly wish to erode any design margin.

 

I should probably just bite the bullet and get a later flywheel and stator.

Thanks for the positive feedback btw Mick - it's good to know that there are other veterans on the forum. It was in fact an American Naval Officer who taught me what is now one of my favourite words - 'voluntold' 

[Loftust]

Here's the cam cover adaptor sitting nicely in the coil.

 

It all fits, although I'd like to adjust the diameter of the section that sits in the cam cover in order to obtain a snugger fit.

 

It's slightly wonky in the photo as I didn't push it into the seal properly.

 

[Auspanglish]

Nice!!

 

BTW: in the end I did and do agree, a 6th gen alternator would be the way to go... it provides the output required for the 6th gens more powerful optics (headlights) and once again, I sincerely believe the failure was due to that pipe blocking the oil vapour breather orifice which the 5th gen does not have.

 

Hurry up and get her together and do 40.000 miles so we can see if my hypothesis is right!!

 

[Loftust]

I need some funding to finance your research ;-)

[Skids]

You can reduce the draw of the headlights by fitting HiD-Xenon (or possibly LED) low beam bulbs. That may mitigate enough to keep the 5th Gen alternator.

[Loftust]

On 14/01/2017 at 7:59 AM, Skids said:

You can reduce the draw of the headlights by fitting HiD-Xenon (or possibly LED) low beam bulbs. That may mitigate enough to keep the 5th Gen alternator.

 

I briefly considered this too, but given I probably have enough on my plate at the moment, including getting that chain on  Perhaps another time...

 

The good news is that the bike now has some blood!

 

Expecting to see a mess of rust and detritis, I took the tarpaulin off the VTEC lump on Satuday, and noticed that I had covered the flywheel in a plastic bag. It transpires that said plastic bag did a remarkable job of keeping a thin film of oil on the flywheel, and it is consequently in excellent condition. A quick snap of the impact driver and M20x1.5 bolt, and the flyhweel was off - no pullers, grabbers or other such nonsense was required.

 

There is something that has completely confused me - the stator bolts now fit the generator cover. I could have sworn that they were bottoming out in the cover with both the 5th gen and 6th gen stator in place - I tried this numerous times over the past few weeks, and the result was the same - too long. I'm glad that they're in, but am very perplexed...weird.

 

Fitting the flywheel was a little harder - even using a belt to prevent it from turning wasn't enough. FYI, the torque setting is 103nm. There is however a small hole to the rear (right) of the crank - I was able to use a screwdriver to brace the flywheel and nip the bolt up. 

 

I had heard the fitting the stator was going to be a bit tricky, thanks to the magnetism of the flywheel. Because I've got long fingers, I was able to hold three bolts in the cover (equally spaced), allowing me to line the cover up first time. Thereafter, it was just a case of fitting the other bolts and doing them up in the usual criss-cross fashion.

 

One fairly fundamental oversight of mine has been failing to purchase a new oil filter - d'oh! I have therefore only put about half the required amount of oil in, which according to the Haynes manual, is 3.8 litre post strip down - given that my engine has been draining for a while, it's likely that I'll be needing close to this amount. I turned the engine over through the orifice on the clutch cover, which should have turned the oil pump at the same time. In case it hasn't I'll be popping a little bit of oil down the spark plug tubes (plugs removed) to give the piston rings some lubrication, and will be turning the engine over on the starter with the fuel pump disconnected.

 

I encourntered a problem with the Lights4all tail light - the holes for the indicator connectors are not large enough - I butchered my connectors to make them fit for now, but the jury's out on whether the tail light will remain moisture tight or not as they're at a slight angle in the housing. Assuming Lughts4all don't come back and say 'yeah we sent you the wrong one/there's a manufacturing error - here'sa new one', I will get hold of some small files, new (or secondhand) connectors, and make the hole slightly larger in the light assembly. Longer term remedial action will have to wait for another time though - I need to get the bike running ASAP.

 

Once the rear fairing was on, I refitted the pannier mounts and LED numberplate light, which is about 20% the size of the OEM behemoth. I'm going to need to find somewhere to mount the rear reflector too - I'm loathe to fit a small one on the plate itself. I may end up asking a colleague to fabricate something for me, which is likely to incorporate a small bracket for the original reflector too. It turns out that said colleague also has a CNC lathe at home! Why did I not know about this before??!?!?!?! I managed to feed the stator cable under the TBs quite easily - I should have left a bit of string under there when I put the TBs back on, but had forgotten this at the time. What I was able to do was join a couple of cable ties together, and feed those through. A bit of sticky tape and fumbling around, and the plug was through.

 

I remeasured the spark plug tube ID too, which came out 1.5mm wider than originally measured with a child's ruler. I'll hopefully get the amended adaptors made this week, as well as something to keep the coils secured to the cam covers themselves. In order to get the rear/right coil in the spark plug tube, I lopped off the section with the bolt hole, so this will need to be held down in the tube from above.

 

Just shy of 3 litres of fresh Honda coolant was added as well this weekend, and I can't see any leaks thus far - I'm REALLY hoping that if there are any leaks, none of them are under the TBs - that would be a bugger.

 

Here's the jobs to do list:

 

Fit the brake lines (I chased the supplier at the weekend)

Order and fit oil filter

Top oil up

Fill/bleed brakes & clutch

Wire the heated grips (they were glued onto the bars this weekend too)

Collect powdercoated wheels - should be this week

Fit new bearings to front wheel, as well as the discs

Order and fit tyres

Fit wheels

Wire PCIII on receipt & load Fi base map

Fit chain and guard

Tighten up exhaust collector clamp

Fit tank

Fill tank (partially, in case the gaskets weep/leak)

Put new plugs in

Fit the cam cover adaptors

Fit coil mounting gizmos

Run engine whilst biting nails

Repair brake MC wiring

Bleed coolant

Fit screen

Fit fairings/nose cone etc

Convince myself this was a good idea

[Loftust]

Everyone likes a picture:

 

 

[Loftust]

I'm going to keep this thread updated in the 6th Gen section:

 

 

[CandyRedRC46]

I really like everything that is being done here, but heads up, The Power Commander Fi base map, is for an Fi engine with an Fi ECU, you have an Fi engine and VTEC ECU. The fuel mapping requirements will more than likely be totally different. I would highly recommend not using any base map, towing it to a dyno and having a custom map made. The ignition mapping will be way off as well, but that is another story. It will obviously work, but it is worth looking into, as the ignition timing requirements of 2 valve lean burn (swirl), will be totally different than that of a 4 valve (tumble) arrangement.