Jump to content

72,000 Mile Service


Skids

Recommended Posts

  • Member Contributer

So, my 08 6th Gen has reached 72,000 miles and is due her service. Whilst she's on the ramp, I'm going to swap in a new thermostat as she is taking too long to warm up still.

 

I've just cleaned up the Fast Idle Wax Unit joints and started her up and the fast idle seemed to work better than previously so hopefully that will improve cold idle. Time will tell whether I need to go deeper into it or if this will suffice.

 

So along with oil, oil & air filter change and coolant change (just as well as it has to be drained to replace the thermostat) I'll balance the Starter Valves. I've also bought new seals for the front calipers. They've not been touched, other than occasional cleaning of the exposed piston surfaces and after fitting the braided hoses last year, I thought giving them a good overhaul should keep the brakes working well for many miles to come.

 

Another issue I will try to resolve is my RH heated grip which stopped working quite a while ago. The controller is fine so with winter on the horizon, I will try to swap in a new one I got cheap when Hein Gericke went bust. Hopefully, connection will be simple enough.

 

Photo of the new thermostat awaiting connection - I'm just having a coffee and some toast before pressing on!

IMAG0714[1].jpg

Link to comment
Share on other sites

  • Member Contributer

I don't have the correct tool to access them and as I've only ever completed a 5th Gen valve clearance (every 16k up to 130k miles) in the past and so am unsure of the exact procedure, so previously I have given her to a dealer to do just that part. I shall probably do the same again this time.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

  • Member Contributer

That was a long day.

 

Engine all done, front brake calipers removed, stripped and cleaned. Will refit them both tomorrow then, if I have time, I'll do the rear caliper.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

  • Member Contributer

Not had as much time today as I hoped. Also underestimated the number of banjo bolt copper washers I'd need so only finished the fronts. The rears will have to wait until new washers arrive as will the RH grip as the assembly wont arrive until Tue.

 

Shame, I'll have to take the 1200 to work tomorrow. :cheerleader:

Link to comment
Share on other sites

  • Member Contributer

Bugger!

 

Bike is still running too cold despite the fitting of a brand new thermostat from David Silver Spares. That's the 3rd; original which failed open, a 2nd-hand replacement I bought off ebay still in its housing which was failed open and now this brand new one.

 

So what could I have done wrong? Is there a way to install it incorrectly so that it doesn't close and allows too much coolant through?

 

Or is there any other way anyone knows of that causes the bike to run too cold? Even after 15 miles it's not warm enough to activate the Vtec.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

  • Member Contributer

That's difficult to answer. But it should be warm as it spends 45mins at 6k rpm!

 

 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

  • Member Contributer

I'll be honest, I'm not sure what sensor the ECU reads from for the coolant [and/or] oil temperature. I'll need to look in the manual, but it may be a good starting point imo since you already swapped the t-stat.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

  • Member Contributer
26 minutes ago, thtanner said:

I'll be honest, I'm not sure what sensor the ECU reads from for the coolant [and/or] oil temperature. I'll need to look in the manual, but it may be a good starting point imo since you already swapped the t-stat.

 

I was thinking along those lines but have no knowledge either.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

  • Member Contributer

It's a Halfords one....here. Ethylene Glycol based mixed with equal amounts of distilled water.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

  • Member Contributer

My basic thermostat test is to start the engine from cold, and keep a hand on the right radiator. If the thermostat is working properly it should hold the coolant in the engine block until around 78C; up to that point no hot coolant gets to the radiator so it stays cold. Once the thermostat opens, you will get a rapid rise in radiator temperature so you can't keep your hand on it. If on the other hand the radiator slowly warms from the time the engine is turned on, the thermostat is open or leaking. 

 

The ECU reads temperature from the thermosensor at the back of the front head just under the #3 intake port. This can be easily extracted while you have the throttle bodies out and checked for operation, should read 2.1-2.6 kOhms at 80C and 0.65-0.73 at 120C. Or use an IR thermometer and compare to the digital reading on the dash when the bike is running. 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

  • Member Contributer
1 hour ago, Terry said:

My basic thermostat test is to start the engine from cold, and keep a hand on the right radiator. If the thermostat is working properly it should hold the coolant in the engine block until around 78C; up to that point no hot coolant gets to the radiator so it stays cold. Once the thermostat opens, you will get a rapid rise in radiator temperature so you can't keep your hand on it. If on the other hand the radiator slowly warms from the time the engine is turned on, the thermostat is open or leaking. 

 

The ECU reads temperature from the thermosensor at the back of the front head just under the #3 intake port. This can be easily extracted while you have the throttle bodies out and checked for operation, should read 2.1-2.6 kOhms at 80C and 0.65-0.73 at 120C. Or use an IR thermometer and compare to the digital reading on the dash when the bike is running. 

 

Thanks Terry, I'll try the hands-on approach.  :beer:

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Keep in mind the right hand side radiator won't remain completely cold as there is some communication with the left hand side, and therefore the motor. There's a small line which does allow a reduced flow through to the right hand side radiator, but it's minimal.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

  • Member Contributer

You're quite right, there is a tiny air bleed line that comes off the thermostat and joins to the back of the RHS radiator, so you might get a little hot flow through that, but I've never felt a detectable rise in the radiator from it. On the other hand, when the thermostat opens and dumps 80C water into the cold radiator system, it is very noticeable. 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

  • Member Contributer

This morning, on my journey to work, I managed to give this a go. Whilst I was getting changed, I started the bike and kept checking the RH rad. It stayed at the same temp, except for a small slightly warmer patch near the filler cap, right up to 44 deg C when I had to leave or be late for work. The LH rad felt pretty similar, perhaps a smidge warmer. Neither got what I would call warm at all.

 

I'll try & do this later with the temp rising to 78+ and see what happens. 

 

I think warming her up at a standstill helps alleviate the problem cos she was >64 deg C (Vtec op temp) before I hit the freeway and she maintained 68 deg C at a steady 6k rpm which though 10 deg or so lower than normal is still better than yesterday where she struggled to get to 60 deg C.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

As a reference, with a stuck open thermostat, my 5th gen would hit 38C in say 3 minutes on a 75°F day at 3,000 RPM. That is slow because it had to warm up all of the water in the rads. You did not give times but I get the impression (correct me) that your engine runs a lot longer to get to 44-64C, and the rads are still ambient temperature, correct? This sounds different from the typical stuck-open thermostat problem, which would warm up the rads. This sounds like the temperature sensor is heating up due to the conduction of heat through non-moving coolant. So the temp reading only reflects the localized temperature at the sensor, but the rads are cool and the engine head is extremely hot.

 

This sounds like air is trapped, the thermostat is stuck closed, or the pump is not moving coolant.


A theory: If there is no flow or the thermostat is filled with air, the overheating could have seized up the prior thermostats. AKA replacing the thermostat was treating the symptom, but the the root cause remains.


Are there flow tests (pump/thermostat) in the factory service manual?

 

Is it possible for a radiator to be completely blocked?

Link to comment
Share on other sites

  • Member Contributer

Hmmmm....yr pushing (or have pushed) the limits of my engineering & understanding there but I don't recall thinking it's over-heating. I will check.

 

There is a possibility that air is stuck but I did the throttle blips and tipped the bike on its side to release the trapped air so I'm not sure what more I could do other than repeat those.

 

I can't say what the rads are doing once she gets up to, or close to, normal operating temps. I'll have to check on the way home tonight.

 

Thanks for the inputs. :beer:

Link to comment
Share on other sites

  • Member Contributer

Got home from my 52 mile commute. Running temp was ~70°C, so about 8°C below normal. Both rads were hot but I could easily touch the plastic screen covering the rads. The RH rad was ever so slightly warmer than the left. It still took longer than normal to get to that temp, but idling for a few mins really helped.

 

I have no previous experience to be able to judge whether the rad temp was normal.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Rads are hot - oh okay it sounds like flow is normal. So, short of an infra red thermometer, perhaps a meat thermometer would reach the radiators through the screen? I would try that with Terry's test. Only this can tell you if another stuck thermostat is keeping it too cool, or otherwise if this is how this bike wants to run (on the freeway I presume?) during 17°C weather.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

  • Member Contributer

Yes I agree with thtanner; the purpose of the thermostat is to keep the temperature at least around 78C, it should stay closed below that and keep the coolant in the block when the air temperature is low enough. On my 5th gen it usually hits 40C in the time it takes me to fit earplugs, helmet, glasses and gloves, and hits 78 after 2 km gentle riding, and at 17 it would normally sit between 79 and 82 whilst moving, never lower.

 

If your bike is running in the 60's, I'd suggest you either need a new thermostat or possibly the temperature sensor is in poor health. Skids. Either way I hope you enjoy pulling throttle bodies out! As you will have seen, it is easy to spot if a thermostat is jammed open. I guess you could install a thermostat upside down but I'm not sure if that is physically possible given the housing size. You can test a thermostat by dunking it in a pot of near boiling water (when Mrs Skids is at the shops); you should see the plate move open by 5 mm or more, then close up when you pull it out of the water.

 

If the thermostat was working but the ECT sensor was reading low, I would expect the temperature reading while riding would be consistent. I imagine that you could remotely test the ECT sensor resistance at the connector; the same connector services the sidestand switch and neutral switch, so you should be able to trace back from one of those to find the connector. I think you want to check the resistance across the green/orange and yellow/blue wires.

IMG_1387.JPG

Link to comment
Share on other sites

  • Member Contributer

Thanks Terry, Knight & thtanner.  :beer:

 

At idle from cold this morning, whilst putting on my helmet etc, by the time the gauge read 36° (which took several minutes, longer than to don my kit and longer than normal), both rads were warm with the RH rad slightly warmer. So I guess this confirms the t'stat is open when it shouldn't be.

 

Trouble is, this is the 3rd t'stat to fail in the last month and a brand new one too.

 

Prior to these issues, the bike ran high 70s/low 80s so I know current running temp is not normal.

 

I'll wait until Mrs Skids is out on Sat and check the t'stat - don't worry, I'm used to removing the throttle bodies so no big issue. I'll be well-miffed if I have to fork out another £55 for a 2nd brand new replacement.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Archived

This topic is now archived and is closed to further replies.

×
×
  • Create New...

Important Information

By using this site, you agree to our Privacy Policy.