tomtox Posted August 23, 2016 Share Posted August 23, 2016 Hello, I need an advice about the suspension system used on a VTEC that had the perk of adjusting it by the knob. I've recently had a leak on a stock 5th gen shock but found a replacement in very good condition online, so i ordered it ASAP. Unfrotunately, the part that came is for the 6th gen with the hose that goes to the knob adjuster of pre-load setting. The thing is that I have only the shock, without the adjuster. Now the most important question is, what happens if I just close end of hose with a screw and some copper washers? It's obvious that i cant change the preload setting, but should i have other worries? How "closing" it affects the shock? Presumably im making a lot of pressure by closing it, so i suppose it sets itself to the hardest setting? I dont understand how the knob adjuster works at all, if some one could explain it, i would be very pleased. Also, if anyone has the adjuster alone for sell i would be intrested in that a lot! Thanks for help! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Member Contributer JZH Posted August 24, 2016 Member Contributer Share Posted August 24, 2016 The 6th-gen (VTEC) shock is shorter than the 5th-gen (Fi) shock, although not by much, IIRC. Fitting a shorter shock will lower the rear of the bike. If you don't use the pre-load adjuster it will simply function like a big preload spacer. If there is no pressure in the adjuster and hose when you "close it", it will remain at the weakest setting, so in that case, there is no reason to close it at all, but you will have no simple way of adjusting preload. For those reasons, I would not suggest you use this shock. Ciao, Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rogue_Biker Posted August 24, 2016 Share Posted August 24, 2016 Lowering the rear of the bike will effect geometry and you will feel this with heavier, slower steering. You actually want to raise the rear of the bike a little bit to get better steering feel and quicker turn in. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CandyRedRC46 Posted August 24, 2016 Share Posted August 24, 2016 I don't know why someone would go through the trouble of replacing a shock with another oem shock, let alone the wrong oem shock. If you are going through the trouble, why not replace with a purpose built shock? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rogue_Biker Posted August 24, 2016 Share Posted August 24, 2016 Cost can be a big selling point for a lot of people. A custom built shock can be prohibitively expensive. A used VTEC shock could be $75 or less, versus $300 for a custom built shock (and you provide the shock first). Big difference right there. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CandyRedRC46 Posted August 24, 2016 Share Posted August 24, 2016 Whats the difference from one used vtec shock to the next? I guess maybe if you have 100k on yours and you can buy a used one that has confirmed under 20k on it for $75, it might be worth the hassle of replacing. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rogue_Biker Posted August 24, 2016 Share Posted August 24, 2016 The OP had a leaking shock so he had to replace. What's trivial expenses to some could be a big one to others. Anyway, he's trying to work with what he has, that's all. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CandyRedRC46 Posted August 24, 2016 Share Posted August 24, 2016 Yeah I hear you. Sorry if I came off as being too harsh. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rogue_Biker Posted August 24, 2016 Share Posted August 24, 2016 You didn't and I fully understood where you're coming from. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Member Contributer JZH Posted August 24, 2016 Member Contributer Share Posted August 24, 2016 It's the seller of the shock I'd like to abuse mercilessly! Who sells a shock without the preload adjuster? Muppets... Ciao, Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Member Contributer digitallyhip Posted August 24, 2016 Member Contributer Share Posted August 24, 2016 I have one for sale from the 2006 I bought (took it out and put in the Penske from my old bike. It DEFINITELY has the adjuster with it! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Member Contributer Cogswell Posted August 24, 2016 Member Contributer Share Posted August 24, 2016 For the OP - here's a photo of the shock removed from my 6th gen ABS. Above the spring is a section the hose attaches to - and within that is a piston that sits atop the spring (you can just see it peeking out). As the adjuster knob is turned it sends hydraulic pressure through the hose pushing the piston out, pressing down on the spring to compress it. It's similar to how brake calipers work. If the hose is gone, the oil will also be mostly drained out and so placing a plug where the hose was will simply keep the dirt out. You will have no ability to change the preload and set the correct sag for your weight / riding style. Particularly if you do any riding with a passenger it might be wise to look for another option. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tomtox Posted August 25, 2016 Author Share Posted August 25, 2016 Wow, I'm suprised how my problem expanded to such disscussion ;) But one thing at a time. As someone noticed, cost is the main thing that I had in mind with replacing the shock. I like to ride a little bit faster & harder (rear tire completly closed) & OEM shock was fine for me before it had leaked. I think it leaked because it was just old. After the leak i simply wanted to get a fast replacement with the lowest cost possible, as there is like a month or two riding left before the weather gets shitty again... So: found the shock, ordered it and when it came i just realised that it's for 6th gen ABS. But nevertheless, it looked almost good as new so i thought it would be the best idea to fit it anyway and to get the adjuster alone any time soon(i thought there is no problem of getting it apart the shock). That being said, when i called the seller (which is a fkin mooron BTW) to tell him that there is no preload adjuster, he told me that if i already mounted the shock on the bike, he cant take it back. You can say it's my mistake that i admitted to fitting it but it didnt matter to me anyway cause i was still going to stay with the 6th one. I am sure that if i wanted a refund or so, i still could get it using the buyers protection but i just didnt see the point in that as i would be left with no shock at all. Also, the 6th gen OEM shocks are just in better shape than the 5th ones, probably just because they are newer. Second thing, the difference in size is about 8mm. I placed a 7mm washer on the VTEC shock and it fits smoothly. Also, yesterday i've found the preload adjuster from ST1300 (which is the same as in the VTEC) online for about 20$ (80 PLN), and the shock was about 30$ (120 PLN) - so as a conclusion: for 50$ i got a nice, OEM & almost new looking shock which completly satsifies my needs in terms of riding solo, with a pillion, or more sporty, and as a plus to all of it, i will be able to change the preload settings with just turning a knob. Earlier i didint even have the Honda wrench to set the OEM 5th gen shock preload, and i suppose the shock would just break down if i tried to set it (it was already in not so great shape before the leak...) . So a VTEC adjusted shock for a 50$? I suppose that it came to pretty good end, comparing it to for example an YSS shock which is for about 420$ (1600 PLN). As i tested how the shock is doing with or without the washer, i would definetly say that without the washer it was terrible, the bike didnt feel right, the turns were hard to make and riding was just not enjoyable. When i added the 7mm washer, it changed the whole game! It works smoothly and even a lot better then the OEM shock before the leakage. It behaves as its was on rails, im truly suprised that the newer shock can change so much. Im very satisfied with the change and recommend to those who dont need a super sporty shock or the 954/929 shock and look for just a low cost replacement. PS. To get the things a little bit intresting and to show You why i just go with all the trouble to change an OEM shock with an OEM shock is mainly this: the price of the YSS/Ohlins/Pensake shock is basically the minimum wage (1600 PLN = 420$) for a month of work in Poland (and like 60-70% of population still works for that kind of money ). So when You compare it further, it's like an 1/8 price of the whole bike too... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rogue_Biker Posted August 25, 2016 Share Posted August 25, 2016 Good for you! I'm glad it worked out. I'm pretty sure the 6th Gen shock has a higher spring rate because that bike is significantly heavier than the 5th Gen. If I remember correctly the 5th Gen was 518 lbs. wet, but the 6th Gen is 537 lbs. wet w/out ABS, and 550 lbs. wet with ABS. So the shock you got, which was designed for the ABS equipped model could possible have a slightly higher spring rate (I'm guessing here because I don't know this for sure). That improved handling you're feeling is probably from the firmer rear end that settles faster when your bike is leaned over, and probably newer damping fluid compared to your older 5th Gen shock. Your old shock that leaked probably has half its fluid left and you just didn't notice the reduction in damping performance as time and mileage passed. Kind of like going from an older tire to a newer tire. I know that as my 6th Gen aged and accumulated miles, the suspension performance and feel degraded to the point where I just wasn't confident going fast on the bike any more on anything less than a smooth pavement. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tomtox Posted August 26, 2016 Author Share Posted August 26, 2016 You're probably right, the spring is for more weight i think. But either way, i did some testing after i mounted the adjuster and it works perfect. Also, now i can change the preload with just a twist and that is just brilliant ;) To a completely empty adjuster and shock i needed to fill two full adjuster capacity with the piston in the adjuster all the way down. Then i just bleeded it twice and that was it, i get tension one the knob after one twist! It just took me like 15 to 20 minutes. I recommend to refill the adjuster to every other VTEC ABS owner if his preload adjuster gets hard after turning it more than once or twice, the cause is its just empty and needs a refill. Thanks for all the help guys! ;) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Epyon007 Posted October 28, 2016 Share Posted October 28, 2016 Any pictures of this set up installed? This is a good alternative to sending in a Gen 5 shock to be rebuilt and wishing you had remote adjust. If the spring rates are higher that is awesome as it will keep the rear higher at all times. Very cool. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Member Contributer JZH Posted October 28, 2016 Member Contributer Share Posted October 28, 2016 Well...the Ohlins springs did go from -59 to -69 (857lbs to 971lbs) between RC46-I and -II models, but the RC36-II had a -79 (1085lbs) and the early RC36 had a -69 (971lbs). Ciao, Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Member Contributer RC36Rider Posted October 29, 2016 Member Contributer Share Posted October 29, 2016 8 hours ago, JZH said: RC36-II had a -79 (1085lbs) and the early RC36 had a -69 (971lbs). Good info. Where did you find it ? I have the Öhlins Mounting Instructions for the 5 and 6G which mention the standard spring rates but could never find the same for the earlier models. PS: I do trust that you know this from a good source. Just curious. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Member Contributer JZH Posted October 29, 2016 Member Contributer Share Posted October 29, 2016 Being a packrat helps here... The RC36-I info came from my own RC36-I Ohlins: The info on the other bikes came from an old 2005 Ohlins catalogue: Ohlins List 2005.pdf And, the Ohlins spring decoding info came from this chart: Ciao, Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Member Contributer RC36Rider Posted October 29, 2016 Member Contributer Share Posted October 29, 2016 Oh goodie ! Cheers mate. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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