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VFR buying advice (VFR800 issues and vs Triumph Sprint 955i)


KayPee

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Hi all, 

Need some quick advice! :lol: 

Another potential VFR owner here, currently riding a '97 CBR600F which needs changed for something a bit more 2-up and distance friendly (but still sporty). 

Went to see a couple of red VFR800 Fi models and a couple of Triumph Sprint 955i examples with factory luggage, need to make a decision very soon for one of those or the viffer! I've made a similar post on the Triumph forum so it'll be interesting to see the differences in opinion :-o 

Sprint #1 ('the heart choice') - '00 red 955i with 21k £1000 
Good points: touring screen, triumph hard luggage, verbal history going back years, long MoT, new battery, triumph rack, good chain, bearings, engine runs well 
Bad points: dry stored for 5 years, noisy (screeching) fuel pump, hard to get into gear when stationary, stiff gearchange, crap tyres,

VFR800 Fi (non-VTEC) ('the competition') - '00 red 39k, full MoT £1350 
Good points: touring screen, new BT021 tyres, good chain, bearings, soft side bags included, full stainless system with Fuel end can (noisy!) 
Bad points: no history, not much clutch left, old oil, bit stuttery at low revs 

VFR800.jpg

Sprint955i.jpg

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Had a sprint rs for 9 years, lovely, was an 02.

Not ridden an older vfr800, just my 16 so would be unfair to compare those.

 

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The Sprint RS is meant to be a bit more sporty to ride. :D :D

The ST I'm looking at comes with the hard luggage which is why it appeals more.

Is it hard/expensive to get VFR800 hard luggage? Don't need loads, either a large top box or 2 side panniers.

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The Triumph headlights are known as "candles in the wind", the VFR's are fantastic, so if riding in the dark is planed I'd go for the later. 

They both suffer from poor regulator rectifier problems, so either will do. 

The Triumph is a better handling bike, but the VFR has  better build quality  

The VFR will outlive the Triumph by a long shot  

No money to be spent on luggage for the Triumph, even a top box and rack for the VFR is going to set you back a few hundred dollars  

The Triumph looks a bit unkept from the pictures. 

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I feel semi qualified to answer this. 

I put 7000 miles on a 1998 VFR, and then 6000 miles on a 1050 Tiger.

keep in mind the 955 is the predecessor to the 1050 mill, and is one of Triumphs most reputable motors. (Not that they have had very many bad ones) 

The 955 went in the Tiger, the sprint and the speed triple. Later the 1050 did the same thing. 

The fit and finish of the 955 Triumphs wasn't as good as the later 1050's which still wasn't as good as the VFR. There are few bikes out there with the fit an finish of the 5th gen VFR, or VFRs in general. Newer euro bikes have matched it, but when you recall the Honda is a 98-01 model, there wasn't much then that came close in my opinion. 

I can't directly comment on the ergos of the sprint but I left the VFR because it was too cramped, the tiger was much better for my 6'4" 225 pound frame. 

I had 0 issues with my VFR. Not even a dead battery. A dead battery was the extent of the issues I had on my Triumph. The bigger 1050 motor was a hair more thirsty than the 800 Honda but that isn't much, I got 180 miles to a tank on the Tiger and 215 on the VFR. 

Again I can't comment on the sprints handling, but I can't imagine much worse handling than the VFR. It was rough, and wallowed like a pig in the turns. I do feel the 98-01's turn in better than the 6th gen. I had stock suspension which was a limiting factor I know. My tiger had Ohlins and Race tech and was a monster, handled amazingly.

the biggest thing is the motor. Once you go to a triple, you'll never look at street riding the same. A big flat torque curve is all over the rev range. It shames the VFR. The VFR wants to be revved up 6k+ RPM to get the kick in the pants i got from the triple at 3000k. The triple is what I believe the perfect street use engine. Torque of a twin and enough top end of an I4. The V4 to me is a solid motor, but the lack of low end torque really puts me off. I own a 1999 VFR now, still an overall great bike but it's a second bike to my K1200S. 

I would own another triumph triple in a heart beat. I only sold the Tiger to try something new and that was a little better two up.  

You can't go wrong either way, but the 955 takes my vote in this comparison. 

 

-PRB

 

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I would start by imagining the bikes in the condition that you want them to be in, and then work out how much you need to spend to get there with each. It seems like the VFR only needs some new clutch plates, and I know these will set you back US$80, plus some of your time to swap out. As for stuttery low rev running, the V4's don't like to be under 3500 rpm under load, and will feel shuddery due to the uneven firing order. 

Sounds like the ST will need more mechanical attention plus tyres, and after 5 year storage who know what other little corrosion-related demons are hiding in there?

 

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It's simple...Fit luggage to the VFR.  Enjoy the superior build quality and even the better resale value.  You will have a bike that will last for many many years to come.

I have had several Sprints and riden all generations in my time.  They do have soul and as said above the triple is great, but I find the VFour to be just as entertaining and enjoy the sound even more than the triple.

Here are the Sprint ST issues:

-nylon fuel tank- cant fit a magnetic tank bag.  feel cheap.  crap paint quality on them too.  they also seem to be very particular to using quality fuel.  no ethanol. 

Sounds like the bike already has a fuel pump issue

-lousy brakes

-terrible headlights

-goofy mirrors

-electrical issues

-transmission issues

-marginal hard bags

Personally I always hated the jelly bean styling of the Sprint 955.  Triumph used the VFR 750 as the benchmark and you can tell in the styling thats what they aimed for.  The VFR 800 was a full generation ahead, but I still wouldn't trade my 5th or 6th gens in for either a 1050 or GT.

 

 

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Great comments here, thanks to all for taking time to feedback.

I'm totally torn between the 2 bikes now! :-o :-/ :-S

Luggage - I'd need to get a large top box for the VFR and rack (£200 2nd hand?), Sprint comes with hard luggage and rack for top box. I already have a magnetic tank bag for the VFR. Great point @deltaboxii about the plastic tank on the Sprint! I'll need to invest in a strap-on... ;-)

Servicing - The Sprint 955i has sat 5yrs and needs all new fluids and filters, I'll do all that myself for the cost of parts. Sprint needs tyres, VFR has new BT021s - are they any good?

Fuel Economy matters too, especially for long trips. I generally get 50-60mpg (UK) on my 97 CBR600 F3 (carbs), averaging high 50's on a long trip. What can you get on a 5th gen VFR ridden sensibly? Triumph folk reckon low 50's for a long run.

One advantage of the Triumph Triple is low end smooth torque and tweakability - readily available remapping tools for the Sagem ECU, easy to optimise and tune.

Here's the trip I'm planning this July to Italia and back with my wife: https://trips.furkot.com/ts/26fSPZ

In case you're interested, here's the same thread I started on the Triumph forum for a balanced opinion :-)

http://www.triumphtorque.com/messageboard/thread/210799-Spring-issues-and-buying-advice-help.aspx

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2 hours ago, KayPee said:

Great comments here, thanks to all for taking time to feedback.

I'm totally torn between the 2 bikes now! :-o :-/ :-S

Luggage - I'd need to get a large top box for the VFR and rack (£200 2nd hand?), Sprint comes with hard luggage and rack for top box. I already have a magnetic tank bag for the VFR. Great point @deltaboxii about the plastic tank on the Sprint! I'll need to invest in a strap-on... ;-)

Servicing - The Sprint 955i has sat 5yrs and needs all new fluids and filters, I'll do all that myself for the cost of parts. Sprint needs tyres, VFR has new BT021s - are they any good?

Fuel Economy matters too, especially for long trips. I generally get 50-60mpg (UK) on my 97 CBR600 F3 (carbs), averaging high 50's on a long trip. What can you get on a 5th gen VFR ridden sensibly? Triumph folk reckon low 50's for a long run.

One advantage of the Triumph Triple is low end smooth torque and tweakability - readily available remapping tools for the Sagem ECU, easy to optimise and tune.

Here's the trip I'm planning this July to Italia and back with my wife: https://trips.furkot.com/ts/26fSPZ

In case you're interested, here's the same thread I started on the Triumph forum for a balanced opinion :-)

http://www.triumphtorque.com/messageboard/thread/210799-Spring-issues-and-buying-advice-help.aspx

The Sagem FI was easy to optimise and tune if you know what your doing and have the Datatool "gameboy".  I wonder how long those will be available.

Honda VFRs have been easy to tune, get a Power Commander and a dyno to really get it right.  Lots of maps out there.

 

Had a look on the Triumph forum, and a laugh.  So much mis information on that page. 

Maybe its because I worked at Triumph America and saw all the issues we had with those bikes, kind of like not wanting to eat fast food after seeing what really happens back there...

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As much as I loved my Triumph I would be hesitant to buy ANY bike that has sat for 5 years. 

Compared to a Honda or Kawasaki any bike has a crap transmission. Euro bikes are not known for the hot-knife-through-butter shifting feel. My tigers tranny was tight and heavy compared to the VFR. My BMW is sloppy and loud.  On the same note, I never mis-shifted that Tiger either, something I did a few times on the VFR. 

The TuneECU software is free, and the nice USB cable is like 20-30$ USD on amazon. Sorry but a Power Commander and dyno running can cost hundreds of dollars. Clear win for the Trumpet there. 

I think one thing you need to ask yourself with ANY Euro bike, Triumph, BMW, Ducati, etc... is how passionate are you about the bike or brand? The VFR to me is a well engineered tool. It executes well and can be ridden very fast and over long distances. BUT, the Triumph triples have soul. The howl of a triple is unmistakable. Its polished yet aggressive at the same time. The V4 is a great motor and there no doubt it will go forever, but personally it just doesn't speak to me like the triple does. BUT, to each there own. I sold my 1998 and had the Tiger, and recently got a 1999 VFR as a project bike to restore and tweak out. So keep in mind as much as I love my Triumph, I still did buy another VFR, as a second bike, a toy if you will. 

I echo my sentiments from my earlier post, and say again you really can't make a bad choice. Though I am not sure if you want your first Triumph expience to come from a neglected bike that has been sitting for 5 years. It's a gamble. 

So are you a betting man?

 

-PRB

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58 minutes ago, PirateRiderBen said:

As much as I loved my Triumph I would be hesitant to buy ANY bike that has sat for 5 years. 

Compared to a Honda or Kawasaki any bike has a crap transmission. Euro bikes are not known for the hot-knife-through-butter shifting feel. My tigers tranny was tight and heavy compared to the VFR. My BMW is sloppy and loud.  On the same note, I never mis-shifted that Tiger either, something I did a few times on the VFR. 

The TuneECU software is free, and the nice USB cable is like 20-30$ USD on amazon. Sorry but a Power Commander and dyno running can cost hundreds of dollars. Clear win for the Trumpet there. 

I think one thing you need to ask yourself with ANY Euro bike, Triumph, BMW, Ducati, etc... is how passionate are you about the bike or brand? The VFR to me is a well engineered tool. It executes well and can be ridden very fast and over long distances. BUT, the Triumph triples have soul. The howl of a triple is unmistakable. Its polished yet aggressive at the same time. The V4 is a great motor and there no doubt it will go forever, but personally it just doesn't speak to me like the triple does. BUT, to each there own. I sold my 1998 and had the Tiger, and recently got a 1999 VFR as a project bike to restore and tweak out. So keep in mind as much as I love my Triumph, I still did buy another VFR, as a second bike, a toy if you will. 

I echo my sentiments from my earlier post, and say again you really can't make a bad choice. Though I am not sure if you want your first Triumph expience to come from a neglected bike that has been sitting for 5 years. It's a gamble. 

So are you a betting man?

 

-PRB

I ran several different "Triumph tunes" in my '06 Speedy. Ran like crap even with the dealer tuning it.  They were a very reputable service shop with some of the best Triumph mechanics around.  Got the Tuneboy (not free) and dyno tuned it.  Much better than Triumph's maps.  Not perfect, but damn close.  A dyno is the only way to get it spot on.  Worth it in my opinion, but YRMV.

Yes to each their own.  I love the sound of my Daytona and the Speed Triple was nice, but IMHO nothing sounds more amazing then a GDC V4.

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18 hours ago, PirateRiderBen said:

As much as I loved my Triumph I would be hesitant to buy ANY bike that has sat for 5 years. 

Compared to a Honda or Kawasaki any bike has a crap transmission. Euro bikes are not known for the hot-knife-through-butter shifting feel. My tigers tranny was tight and heavy compared to the VFR. My BMW is sloppy and loud.  On the same note, I never mis-shifted that Tiger either, something I did a few times on the VFR. 

So are you a betting man?

 

-PRB

Well said. I spoke to the Sprint seller (small time bike dealer) last night bearing in mind your comments above about it sitting for 5 years. He said the bike had been moved around occasionally (but not started) during its dry storage. When he came to start it, he just fired in a new battery and away it went. No binding brakes, no stiff links in the chain etc. Even he was quite surprised.

Having said that, I didn't ask about the chain tensioner which is a known issue (seizes). I guess that's all part of the gamble... ;-)

I'm flying over to Newcastle tomorrow to pick up the bike, so we'll see how that goes! He's going to change the oil and filter for nowt which is nice.

Really appreciate everyones comments here (even if I did buy a Sprint!) ;-) :-P

Keith

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Just a couple notes before you show up to inspect the bike, or any bike--as per my blog post:

 

 

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