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Idle speed.


Nelix

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Guys, what should idle speed be when warm? Mine is sitting at around 17-1800 when warmed up which seems high to me, dealer is suggesting waiting until 600 mile service to see where it is sitting then. Thoughts?

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1,200 +/- 100 rpm... Adjust when warm, the Throttle Stop Screw is just above and slightly left of the clutch slave cylinder.   No need to remove any of the body panels as the service manual suggests.   Mine was high from day one, I finally got around to it the other day.  I was sitting at 1800 at idle.

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I have now seen several of you with idle in that range with this new bike and from that I suspect this is intentional. 

A new engine, (as well as a cold engine) should be held at a slightly higher rev when under load, like when taking off. Lugging a new engine is the absolute most destructive force on the bottom end of the engine. Given that a percentage of the owners will be novices or perhaps not used to bikes with extremely tall gearing, Honda can help protect it from lugging and stalling by setting the idle artificially high.

If intentional dealers should make that clear when you buy it, and proactively tell you to lower it at X miles.  

An owner of one of the self-destructed 1200's (crank explosion) wrote that Honda explicitly told him the engine was used at too low of an rpm. The effect is cumulative so one will not see the failure until something like 15,000 or more miles. Of course I've never heard of an 800 failure, but good practice is good practice. Maybe most 800 owners ride it like they stole it from day one, rendering this issue moot.

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Mine came set at 1800rpm.  I reset it to around 1300.  Like Knight said, don't ever lug the engine.  It likes rpm's and is built to take a beating.  All three of mine have taken a high rpm beating with no bad results except for quickly worn tires.  

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Dealer told me to stay below 7000rpm for the first 5-600 miles, is that poor practice considering the engine likes to be revved?

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5 hours ago, Nelix said:

Dealer told me to stay below 7000rpm for the first 5-600 miles, is that poor practice considering the engine likes to be revved?

 

"Break-in" is a religious topic, like asking which oil is best. People have debated this with cars long before fairing-clad sport bikes existed. There are articles if you search the net by people who swear the best thing to do is to quickly use the entire range of the engine.  There are plenty of others advising to keeep the rpms low. One question that remains somewhat unanswered: If you only to go 7,000 early in the motor's life, when you finally do go above that, will the motor not like it because the moving parts have settled into a different geometry? This is part of the "big debate."

I decided to open my 5th gen manual (you should do the same). It says, "...paying extra attention to how you ride during the first 300 miles (500 km). During this period, avoid full-throttle starts and rapid acceleration." LOL how's that for Honda confidence and minimal advice?

The definitive advice would come from an experiment: Take two brand new VFR800s, dyno them, break them in with opposite methods, then dyno them again. Why hasn't anyone done this? 

And finally: That owner of the 1200 with the disintegrated crank states for his rebuild that the dealer told him to "stay above 5,000 RPM." LOL. Make that a double LOL as we juxtapose that to your dealer's advice for the 800.

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I think the biggest thing with the 7k rpm limit is clutch break-in. After that, I've always "believed" in heat cycles with a new engine more than rpm avoidance, what you don't want to do is stay at the same rpm for a sustained period.  So avoid the freeway, stay in the city or where you are limited in speed to the first 3 gears.  

 

Clutch break in has always been advised to keep at lower rpm.

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I have a Honda car as well as a new VFR and both owner's manuals say very little about break-in, fuel to use and oil to use.  Perhaps there's a reason for that.  Honda seems to be less concerned about that than owners.  My car and bike run fine with my minimal concern for the three factors listed above.  FWIW.  

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1 hour ago, marbs34 said:

Clutch break in has always been advised to keep at lower rpm.


Thanks, no one has ever put the clutch on my radar. What do you know about the gears, aka tranny break in?

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On my friends BMW S1000R, it had an electronic rev limiter set to 8k (IIRC) when taken off the showroom floor and it takes a reset tool to change it. This happens when you take it into the dealer for its break in service. So you have to wonder, does BMW care more about how much one revs the motor too high or about the money they get doing the service and rev limiter reset? LOL

Its been a real long time since I have had a vehicle that was showroom new, but I know that when I did have a new vehicle I used the entire RPM range. Taking care though not to hit the redline or keep it near the redline for too long, at least not in the 0-600 mile range. After that I used the vehicle the way I intended to when I bought it.

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8 hours ago, Knight said:


Thanks, no one has ever put the clutch on my radar. What do you know about the gears, aka tranny break in?

That's happening at the same time the engine is breaking in if it is even breaking in.  I didn't baby my new VFR and it runs fine today.  Redlining a VFR doesn't do much.  After about 10K rpm, it's just spinning faster but not really going anywhere faster.  Better to shift to the next gear.  

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Low rpm lugging is never good, and high rpm operation is not necessary, but it is fun! I would leave the idle high until the 600, then adjust it as you will be used to the bike and not prone to stalling. Then, ride it like you stole it!

 Modern engines are built so well, the break-in really does not matter much. They are assembled in clean rooms, by computer controlled robots, and every measurement and value is logged. The modern oils and piston ring materials are so good, that most of them last for a long time. If you get the 1% failure engine then it will probably fail regardless.....the 600-1,000 miles is probably overkill, but it doesn't hurt the manufacturer to be conservative. All of the bearing surfaces are new, and tight. I remember the 60K mile CBR900RR article back in the day when it made a few more hp on the same dyno than when it was new. There is probably a time in the engine's life where bearing clearances and ring-wear are at the lowest friction, while sealing well enough to make top horsepower. Everything after that is down hill, and everything before, is uphill.........it's probably different for every motor and every riding style.

At the Porsche shop, we would rebuild an engine, then run it at 1K rpm for 5 minutes, and check for leaks etc....then 2K for 4 minutes, 3K for 3 minutes, and 4K for 2 minutes, and 5K for 1 minute - all on the lift with no load. Then we would drive it around and make sure all was good under the hood. I would usually drive them home ~40 miles, and then to the dyno the next morning for dyno tuning, which is of course full throttle runs, but from 2,000 rpm up - equal to about 4K on a bike. It usually took 8-10 runs to get them dialed in. My boss always said, better it breaks in our hands, than in the customers'.............never had any problems............

 

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I got my bike  with 2300 km on the clock. It was idling high too. But I turned the idle down and its remained stable a 1100 since, now with 10,000 km plus on. No need to worry about lugging on a cold engine. The eight gen cleverly raises revs to abt 2000 rpm as you slip the clutch in. Don't know if it has been designed that way but it happens. I think it's been mentioned in another post previously.

cheers.

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I bought a brand new 2007 Husqvarna SM610 in '08,  I was nowhere near any dealer, and had it delivered.  I knew I was going to ve servicing the bike in my own.

 

At the 600 mile break in oil change, I noticed a lot of thread locker (little yellow bits) in the oil, and was told it came from the flywheel bolts.  

The point I'm trying to make is that clutch break in is likely more important than engine break in.  However, I can't see how it would ve beneficial for the engine to stay below the vtec transition when new.   That's the question about all of thus that names me wonder.

Bottom line is that I didn't help engineer this thing either, so what do I know.

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  • 11 months later...

Hi, My 2003 starts idling at 1700-1800 for a couple of minutes, then sits steadily at 900, where I set it up.

That said, i suppose there' s a starting map stored in the ECU.

I have found that engine heats up quicker with a rather lean idle, say  14.7 or 15,  putting out  50 C°  in about two minutes. Which is very important to me.

That said, I prefer the low/middle throttling and I have finely tuned the bike in that region. Keep in mind that cinematic equilibre, and smooth erogation in this V4  starts at 4000 rpms....

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