Member Contributer shaynus Posted April 13, 2016 Member Contributer Share Posted April 13, 2016 Hi All Does anyone know if you can (easily) use a rear brake setup from a CBR919 on a 5th gen as part of the de-linking process? I have seen mentioned the CBR600 items can be used, but am unsure if the CBR919 has the same mounting spacing. Cheers! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Member Contributer Terry Posted April 13, 2016 Member Contributer Share Posted April 13, 2016 As long as the CBR master uses the 14mm piston then it should work; I think Honda use a standard mount dimension for their rear brake masters. The pushrod will probably need to be shortened in any case. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Member Contributer JZH Posted April 13, 2016 Member Contributer Share Posted April 13, 2016 I think it's more of a question with the caliper than the master. I've long thought about fitting a 1-pot caliper when de-linking, but I haven't got around to actually seeing if it would fit onto the VFR's bracket. I wouldn't be shocked if it did fit, but I'm not expecting it. I know I've got one in the shed somewhere... Ciao, Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Member Contributer shaynus Posted April 14, 2016 Author Member Contributer Share Posted April 14, 2016 You're right JZH, more of a question if the caliper would bolt straight up as I have come across a cheap rear brake setup (master cylinder and caliper) for sale Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Member Contributer Terry Posted April 15, 2016 Member Contributer Share Posted April 15, 2016 I'd be surprised if this would be a straight swap; the CBR caliper is a single piston design and quite short front to back, so the sliding pins will also be closer together than the 3-piston VFR. It does seem like a good idea to swap the heavy 3 piston caliper for a small single piston caliper so I understand your interest. If you are just thinking of a brake delink, you can keep the 3 piston caliper and join the two existing brake hoses together at the brake master so all 3 pistons work as one. If you do that then you do ideally need to go to 14mm master cylinder. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Member Contributer MadScientist Posted April 15, 2016 Member Contributer Share Posted April 15, 2016 I'd be surprised if this would be a straight swap; the CBR caliper is a single piston design and quite short front to back, so the sliding pins will also be closer together than the 3-piston VFR. Right, except the sliding pins on the VFR don't go "around" all 3 pistons. When I was rebuilding my brake system, I did note that the sliding pin spacing was pretty close to that on my 599's little one pot unit. I can check this weekend, but this might not answer the OP's original question. 599's and 919's use the same rear brake pads, but that is no guarantee that the mounting points are the same. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Member Contributer JZH Posted April 15, 2016 Member Contributer Share Posted April 15, 2016 Well, I just dug out my CBR rear caliper (it's gold, so pre-1000RR, I think) and I don't think there's any realistic possibility of using that style of caliper on an RC46. However, as the photo below, posted by Kel in my recent brakeline-through-the-swing-arm thread shows, there are NISSIN rear calipers that might work: Although the caliper looks like the CBR900/Hornet/919 caliper (below), the caliper's orientation and mounting is quite different. But the Hawk GT caliper (top photo) mounts above the swing arm, rather than below (like the RC46 caliper), and it mounts on the opposite side of a flat rotating hanger (unlike the RC46's more sculpted one). Sure, it wouldn't be beyond someone like Larry L's capabilities, but well beyond mine! Ciao, Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Member Contributer mello dude Posted April 15, 2016 Member Contributer Share Posted April 15, 2016 When I did my original delink thing on my ride, I went thru several Honda rear calipers and ebay buys to give a one pot caliper a shot. I didnt find any that looked like it could work out. That's when I came up with the bridge line set up I currently run.--- --- (btw- throwing it out there for grins-- - for the viffer I think I am the first guy to do it and inventor on this...) If I wanted to go to a one pot now, I think I would look hard at the 8th gen hardware - that probably would be the cleanest way to go. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Phantom Posted April 15, 2016 Share Posted April 15, 2016 Why not just fit a 3rd/4th Gen caliper? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Member Contributer MadScientist Posted April 15, 2016 Member Contributer Share Posted April 15, 2016 Why not just fit a 3rd/4th Gen caliper? This is interesting, any details? The mounting bracket looks similar so you might be able to use all 5th+ gen brackets and slap the caliper on. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Member Contributer JZH Posted April 15, 2016 Member Contributer Share Posted April 15, 2016 A 3rd-gen rear caliper isn't much different (and looks no more blingey) than the 5th-gen caliper. I'm using a 6th-gen ABS caliper (gold, as in Mello's pic above) for my de-linking. As for the originator of the clever looped line, I don't know if it was you or not, Mello, but I've always associated it with a (rather annoying...) guy on the Big List with a handle "ManaaByrnn" (or something like that). I'm drilling my caliper and plugging the unused fluid port with a "M10 x 1.25 Pipe Plug" from Stig Fasteners. Ciao, Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Member Contributer Terry Posted April 17, 2016 Member Contributer Share Posted April 17, 2016 Cause I am cheap, I kept both brake lines and joined them at the master with the double banjo bolt from the proportionating valve under the seat. Cost = 0 (with a CBR600F4 master cylinder). I was comparing parts today and I'm confident that the 3 pot front calipers use the same mounts as the 2 pot calipers, at least between my 5th gen and an ST1100 which has come to live with me. If I ever feel the urge I could install my surplus 3-pot calipers on the ST and do the drill and plug option to use a single line. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
keef Posted April 17, 2016 Share Posted April 17, 2016 I'm using a brembo off a ducati. But it goes with my 1098 wheel. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Member Contributer shaynus Posted April 17, 2016 Author Member Contributer Share Posted April 17, 2016 Thanks for all the feed back and info everyone, there is lots of food for thought. I won't go and buy the cbr caliper as I originally intended. All except keef though - that just made me jealous! ;-) Well, I just dug out my CBR rear caliper (it's gold, so pre-1000RR, I think) and I don't think there's any realistic possibility of using that style of caliper on an RC46. However, as the photo below, posted by Kel in my recent brakeline-through-the-swing-arm thread shows, there are NISSIN rear calipers that might work: Although the caliper looks like the CBR900/Hornet/919 caliper (below), the caliper's orientation and mounting is quite different. CBR929RR Rear Caliper and Bracket.JPG But the Hawk GT caliper (top photo) mounts above the swing arm, rather than below (like the RC46 caliper), and it mounts on the opposite side of a flat rotating hanger (unlike the RC46's more sculpted one). Sure, it wouldn't be beyond someone like Larry L's capabilities, but well beyond mine! Ciao, The caliper in the top photo looks like a VFR400 caliper? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Member Contributer JZH Posted April 18, 2016 Member Contributer Share Posted April 18, 2016 Nope, just checked my NC30 and NC35 for you! And then I thought...maybe you meant an NC24... Well, well, well. And guess who has an NC24 swing arm (among other things!) in the shed? The NC24 swing arm assembly was one of those things you see on eBay and think, "that's cheap"... And when it arrived it was so covered in dirt and road spooge I just shoved it under a shelf and forgot about it. But this is very interesting. (And as I have pointed out before, the NC24 had its brake line through the swing arm from the factory.) I will be taking it apart soon, so stay tuned. (Well spotted, btw!) Ciao, Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Member Contributer shaynus Posted April 19, 2016 Author Member Contributer Share Posted April 19, 2016 Keep us posted on what you find :-) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Member Contributer JZH Posted April 19, 2016 Member Contributer Share Posted April 19, 2016 Well, I got down and dirty, and while there were no revelations, I did figure out some things. The NC24 swing arm is quite a little gem. Its design is very similar to the 3rd gen swing arm, which is understandable, but it is not as close a relative to that generation as the NT650 Hawk GT is. The OEM brakeline through the swing arm was clever--strange that Honda dropped it from the later versions. Carnage! Caliper, bracket, axle assembly, filthy tools... The caliper is very similar to the CBR929RR one I had on hand. One was designed to ride above the axle and the other below, but the main dimensions appear to be similar. If it ain't broke... So, what about the bracket? Well, it is marked "ML0", which is the PCN for the NC24, so it was designed for that bike, but in keeping with Honda and NISSIN's apparent design philosophy, it is not wildly different from the RC36 bracket. It mounts up in exactly the correct position...except for one thing. And that appears to have to do with the fact that the NC24 rear brake disc is 240mm OD, while the RC36 is 260mm OD. (And no, the respective discs' PCDs are different, so you cannot swap them.) FWIW, the RC46 rear brake disc is also 260mm OD. Perhaps there is another 240mm OD disc that would fit the RC36's or RC46's axle PCDs? Hawk GT would be an obvious suggestion. [EDIT: I just checked the part number, and the Hawk GT uses the NC24 rear disc!] (Or the OEM disc could be cut down, but then the pads would have to be modified.) (One of the holes on the hanger bracket on my bike has been countersunk and a titanium fastener used, which allows the eccentric to be "flipped" and the rear ride height increased, in case you were wondering...) You can see that the caliper would probably be aligned correctly if the hanger bracket were just a bit longer. On the RC36, the caliper hanger bracket is a simple steel affair, so a larger one could be made quite easily (or an old one welded into shape), but the RC46 bracket is cast or forged alloy, and would not be so easily modified. So, the bottom line is that the NC24-type rear caliper (which appears to be the same or very similar to the Hawk GT caliper) could probably be made to fit a 3rd or 4th gen VFR fairly easily, but it is not a straight swap (unless the Hawk GT bracket is designed for a 260mm OD disc--its axle bearing carrier/eccentric is the same OD as the RC36, so the hangers should be interchangeable). [EDIT: It isn't, unfortunately; it also has a 240mm OD disc.] As for the 5th gen, I haven't tried fitting the parts, but given the different caliper bracket hanger, I would not expect this caliper swap to be an easy one. Ciao, Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Member Contributer JZH Posted April 19, 2016 Member Contributer Share Posted April 19, 2016 If I wanted to go to a one pot now, I think I would look hard at the 8th gen hardware - that probably would be the cleanest way to go. The 8th gen uses a two-piston rear caliper, as does the Crossrunner, but either one would look slightly "cleaner" than the three-piston RC46 rear caliper. What looks like it might work to mount one of these 2-pot calipers directly would be the caliper bracket from the Crossrunner: 43190-MGY-641 (which I see is also used on the 8th gen!) That bracket could also work with a one-piston caliper, but... It's impossible to say for sure without having parts in hand. Ciao, Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Member Contributer shaynus Posted April 20, 2016 Author Member Contributer Share Posted April 20, 2016 I was just about to post how I stumbled across a photo of a NTV Revere 650 (I assume a Hawk GT in the USA) rear caliper only to see JZH has bet me to it! Good to know about the disc size differential. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Member Contributer JZH Posted April 25, 2016 Member Contributer Share Posted April 25, 2016 Where were we? Prior to the server hiccough I had spent some time playing around with various axles, bearing carriers, discs and caliper brackets. Btw, there's a Hawk GT caliper and bracket on US eBay for $100 (together). That's more of a 3rd-4th gen solution, though, and wouldn't work on a 5th-6th gen. Ciao, Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
artpongs Posted February 11, 2017 Share Posted February 11, 2017 JZH, Any more findings? I really do want to clean and lighten up the rear brake setup on my 5th gen. Art Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Member Contributer JZH Posted February 11, 2017 Member Contributer Share Posted February 11, 2017 No, I haven't made any progress on the 5th gen. I still plan on using a drilled 6th gen caliper on mine. Last time I checked, that Hawk GT caliper and bracket were still on eBay US. Ciao, Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
artpongs Posted February 11, 2017 Share Posted February 11, 2017 JZH, Some of the pictures are missing - can you summarize what you have found with the Hawk GT caliper/bracket setup then? I got a little confused with the posts leading up to that. Art Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Member Contributer JZH Posted February 11, 2017 Member Contributer Share Posted February 11, 2017 Okay, I put all of the pics back into the earlier posts. I didn't progress this any further than my educated guess that a Hawk GT caliper bracket and caliper would work on a 3rd-4th gen. My 3rd gen is using an RC30 swing arm and rear brake set-up, so I don't need to buy the parts and check for sure. I think the 5th gen could still use a nicer, lighter rear caliper than the one I'm going to use (drilled 6th gen), but it would require machining and/or welding (so, no easy solution). But, that's a project beyond for me. Good luck. Ciao, Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
artpongs Posted February 11, 2017 Share Posted February 11, 2017 On 4/17/2016 at 3:11 AM, keef said: I'm using a brembo off a ducati. But it goes with my 1098 wheel. Keef, Do you know the model Brembo and Ducati it came off of? How about mounting bracket and could you snap some pictures? Also, what master cylinder? Art Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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