dbondar Posted March 31, 2016 Share Posted March 31, 2016 Hi Guys, Got a VFR 1200 FA and it keeps burning out fuel pumps! Tried both Honda OEM, very expensive and cheap replacements. I have replaced rectifier, relays and check cabling for voltage drop, continuity and any signs of damage and see nothing wrong. There is no water or gunk in the tank and the fuel is standard unlead 95 or 98. I am about to replace the COPs (Coil Over Plug), in case these cause any issues and will remove the fuel filter with a tank filler sock filter. The problem typically happens after a straight run on the motorway, I am getting quite good at replacing these and don't go anywhere without a spare. They can last from 500 km to 5000 km, but would expect about 25000 km min... What happens is the carbon brushes seem to ware out... I have read that in tank fuel pumps do have a trigger signal that is used to clear the surface of these, but this is in micro seconds, not sure if this has something to do with it. Spoke to a Honda dealer and he thinks the COPs are at fault, we will see.. Otherwise I love the bike... Anyone else had this issue? dave Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
andy Posted March 31, 2016 Share Posted March 31, 2016 Do you run the tank down to the last couple of drops? I believe the fuel keeps the pump cool. Also "sucking" the very last drops causes the pump to cavitate. Could you also be fueling from a private, i.e., not a high volume fuel outlet? Many small tanks have very fine dirt/rust, invisible to the eye. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Member Contributer swimmer Posted March 31, 2016 Member Contributer Share Posted March 31, 2016 Hi Guys, Got a VFR 1200 FA and it keeps burning out fuel pumps! Tried both Honda OEM, very expensive and cheap replacements. I have replaced rectifier, relays and check cabling for voltage drop, continuity and any signs of damage and see nothing wrong. There is no water or gunk in the tank and the fuel is standard unlead 95 or 98. I am about to replace the COPs (Coil Over Plug), in case these cause any issues and will remove the fuel filter with a tank filler sock filter. The problem typically happens after a straight run on the motorway, I am getting quite good at replacing these and don't go anywhere without a spare. They can last from 500 km to 5000 km, but would expect about 25000 km min... What happens is the carbon brushes seem to ware out... I have read that in tank fuel pumps do have a trigger signal that is used to clear the surface of these, but this is in micro seconds, not sure if this has something to do with it. Spoke to a Honda dealer and he thinks the COPs are at fault, we will see.. Otherwise I love the bike... Anyone else had this issue? dave Not that this helps but, I've never heard of a fuel pump failure on a VFR1200. Something electrical exterior to the fuel pump is causing the failures I believe since it keeps occurring. There is an electrical issue somewhere on your bike. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dbondar Posted March 31, 2016 Author Share Posted March 31, 2016 Hi Andy, Yeah I tested all that, but actually have another theory, one of many. After ready about another vfr and vacuum issues in the tank due to blocked air vent. I have noticed that its been tough to open the filler cap. Could be this that is causing the pumps to run hot and burn out the carbon brushes... who knows. but another thing to check.. Kinda makes sense to me... When I get the parts I will go through it all again and let people know.. I will also do the MIL test, brown and green wires I believe, will check online for the correct info.. Still crappy winter weather here, so I got time to get prepared... Thanks Dave Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lshark Posted April 1, 2016 Share Posted April 1, 2016 i put 45,000 miles on my 2010 without and issues Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Knight Posted April 1, 2016 Share Posted April 1, 2016 After ready about another vfr and vacuum issues in the tank due to blocked air vent. I have noticed that its been tough to open the filler cap. Could be this that is causing the pumps to run hot and burn out the carbon brushes... who knows. but another thing to check.. Kinda makes sense to me... Yes. The pump is fighting the vacuum in the tank. It is working significantly harder than it should 100% of the time that it is running, getting ever slower as the tank vacuum builds. An electric motor that is physically restricted from turning heats up the coils or magnets on the rotor. (I am somewhat guessing because I do not know the design of these fuel pumps.) I think that these brushes are an innocent bystander that get fried secondarily from touching the super-heated rotor. If you see a differing degree of damage along the brushes, the damage would be worst at the rotor and the least damage would occur away from the rotor, if my guess on this particular design is correct. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Member Contributer RC1237V Posted April 2, 2016 Member Contributer Share Posted April 2, 2016 Hi Andy, Yeah I tested all that, but actually have another theory, one of many. After ready about another vfr and vacuum issues in the tank due to blocked air vent. I have noticed that its been tough to open the filler cap. Could be this that is causing the pumps to run hot and burn out the carbon brushes... who knows. but another thing to check.. Kinda makes sense to me... When I get the parts I will go through it all again and let people know.. I will also do the MIL test, brown and green wires I believe, will check online for the correct info.. Still crappy winter weather here, so I got time to get prepared... Thanks Dave That sounds like a good theory - check the charcoal canister and all the vent lines. I had an old Pontiac Firebird that had that problem, and the mechanical fuel pump collapsed the tank - went from 20 down to 5 gallons max. The little pump in your tank cannot collapse the big steel dome that it is, so the pump is taking all the wear. I hope you get it sorted! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dbondar Posted April 6, 2016 Author Share Posted April 6, 2016 Hi Guys, the vacuum air vent to tank was kinked and was restricted, so this probably didn't help. Couldn't suck or blow (sure this is a country song).. Also tested the volt drop bothnegative and postive are 0.4 volts, so cabling looks good. Battery charge not running was 13.5-9, seems normally But when running the charge is 17 volts, this seems high, I also tested at the pump and was get the same... was expecting 14.7-9 ish volts.. Should I replace the stator, as I have replaced the regulator already... To me it would make sense, a combination of high voltage and airway rstricted would not be helpful to the pump.. I will probably order one and cross that off my list of parts... Will stick to the elefant for now. cheers dave Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Knight Posted April 6, 2016 Share Posted April 6, 2016 The service manual will have tests for the stator, resistance and also idle and high rpm output voltage. Is this an OEM regulator? A large number of people seem to get bad replacement rectifiers, particularly aftermarket ones. The regulator limits the voltage so your replacement is not looking good. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dbondar Posted April 6, 2016 Author Share Posted April 6, 2016 Ok I read the manual, it states, run engine with full beam at 5000 rpm and check voltage. Battery (not running) < Battery (running) < 15.5 volts. I got 15.15 volts. Also checked the resistance of the three stator cables and got 0.4 ohms. so within the 01-1.0 ohms stated in the manual. so, I can put my wallet away... So I will waiting for my COP to arrive, replace these and the fuel pump with a new one.. check the air vents, clean the earth cables on frame etc.. and fill it with some clean fuel.. thens its fingers crossed... Just a note of interest, the fuel pump cost 50 dollars, from the states, I note big variations with OE honda ones, from 300 - 1400 dollars, the first price is US and the last is the price here in switzerland (1 chf = 1 dollar). How can honda justify these great variation in price and the hugh price for this part, when I can confirm the cheap one for 50 bucks is just the same unit.... If you add the cost of a honda dealer doing the work, could be as much as 2k.... to replace... compared to 50 bucks.... End of rant... ;) thanks Dave Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
andy Posted April 6, 2016 Share Posted April 6, 2016 Ideas on how/why the vent line got that way? These esoteric problems always baffle and I'm glad to know the answer. Thanks for the update. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dbondar Posted April 6, 2016 Author Share Posted April 6, 2016 Hi Andy, There are two rubber hoses, one for the overflow at the filler cap ( this also passes rain water too). The other is the air vent for the tank. I think the air vent one was kinked when I lifted the tank the first time, I guess I didnt think about it at the time and the other times I kept replacing the pumps. Ran through all the usual suspects, dodgy fuel, dirty fuel, water in fuel, faulty electrical part such as rectifier, relays, COPS the pumps themselves, OE or cheap alternative... Each time I would still get a pump that would fail... drove me crazy...(actually didnt drive me anywhere. ).. Thanks to the forum I got the idea of the air vent, if i had done this in the first place I could have saved a few bucks and headache breakdowns... Bent hose pipe and 50 dollar pump... Moral of story, dont look for the most complicated, some times the simple thinks are the ones to check... Roll on sunny weather, German Autobahns here I come.... I got a 265 km bike :) Happy days,, Dave Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Member Contributer RC1237V Posted April 7, 2016 Member Contributer Share Posted April 7, 2016 Awesome! Enjoy your ride! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
smergy Posted April 8, 2016 Share Posted April 8, 2016 glad you found it. I pinched the hose putting the tank back on one evening. Next ride it was studdering a bit. Pull up to the gas station and there was enough vaccum on the tank that you could barely open the thing. Never heard of any 1200 rr issues, even the one in the 08 1kRR has 70,000k on it without issues, similar design. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts
Archived
This topic is now archived and is closed to further replies.