What Chain Lube To Use?

[BusyLittleShop]

On 8/8/2016 at 9:48 PM, maxredline said:

Chain wax, apply on warm chain and wipe off excess. It is much cleaner and easier to wipe off the rims with WD40

 

A Chain Wax company representative asked me to try their product... "Sure", I said "but first it must pass my simple test."   I opened my oil filler cap and poked the red tube inside and pretended to squirt the paraffin based product... the rep halted the experiment with a warning "you're going to gum up the engine." He is right... Paraffin based products are good at protecting against rust but the penalty is a gummy chain... 
 

[Cogswell]

On 8/6/2016 at 8:03 AM, tbillyjoe said:

Nobody reads the owners manual? It says 90W gear oil! And it's cheap.

 

It's also what was recommended by DID on the box with the replacement chain I got from them - ZVMX 530.  Using 90 wt gear oil, I never clean the chain except for a brief wipe down when it's oiled. True, the wheel does collect some, but it's removed easily and the chain is spotless.   I find that easier than scrubbing a layer of gooey grit off it every so often and I never need to use solvents.   

[JZH]

I use something called "Würth High Performance Dry Chain Lube".  I have no idea if it works, and I don't care.  It is clean!

 

Gear oil works, but is messy, as is Chain Wax, as is traditional sticky "chain lube"...which all of my bikes' POs always seem to have used for the bike's entire previous life (and they never cleaned any of it off). 

 

Ciao,

[BusyLittleShop]

If you want the most power use 90 wt synthetic gear oil but it's messy...

If you want your chain to smell nice use WD-40 but it's about good as spit as a lubricator...

It you want your chain to look cool use Chain wax but it's gummy and cost horse power...

Sorry no product yet Lubes like 90 synthetic... smells like WD-40 and looks cool like Chain Wax...

 

[vfrnick]

I use escalator chain and pin oil. An industrial chain lubricant. It's pretty similar to gear oil I guess. I can't believe how much easier it is to wipe off the bike than horrible gooey spray. My mates XJR has 23000 on the clock and this oil is all he's ever used.His chain and sprockets have plenty of life left. I apply it with an oil can and let it soak in, then wipe the excess off. 

[vfrnick]

On 14/08/2016 at 6:36 AM, Cogswell said:

 

It's also what was recommended by DID on the box with the replacement chain I got from them - ZVMX 530.  Using 90 wt gear oil, I never clean the chain except for a brief wipe down when it's oiled. True, the wheel does collect some, but it's removed easily and the chain is spotless.   I find that easier than scrubbing a layer of gooey grit off it every so often and I never need to use solvents.   

I agree completely. Chain wax is horrible stuff, it's all I used to use, but now I use an industrial lubricant from work similar to gear oil, much better. Chain is like new! 

[Aegisranger]

I'm a Scottoiler guy.  My first ZX14 had 22k miles on the chain and it still looked new.  My VFR has the newer style scottoiler with the handlebar mounted display/controller, and it's worked great.  Easier to carry some wipes to keep your wheels clean than carrying chain lube everywhere.  It's great in bad weather where lots of rain will wash your chain lube off, you just dial in a higher lube rate for a while and keep riding.

[Auspanglish]

Nobody reads the owners manual? It says 90W gear oil! And it's cheap.

Friend of mine is chief mechanic at a refuse treatment plant and has always sworn on 90w gear oil. Used to carry a small bottle and brush. Now uses Scott oiler. He knows all the tricks. Spends the least and gets the most out of everything.

[BusyLittleShop]

21 hours ago, Aegisranger said:

I'm a Scottoiler guy.  My first ZX14 had 22k miles on the chain and it still looked new.

 

Mr.Scott may have found a way to make your chain to look new on the
outside but it still goes all rotten in the inside... the only worth one can
expect is the fact that if you coat the chain in enough oil the running temp
is lower where the factory grease has a chance to live longer but oh the price
one pays for that single benefit...

 

Auto chain oilers where designed for non O ring standard chains back
in the 60s for London Motorcycle Curriers... they were never designed
for O ring chains...

 

Auto oiler *will not* replenish the factory lube (gray lines) at this critical
junction...  because no amount of external oil (RED) can reach the critical pin

and roller junction behind the X ring to extend its service life... the 4 points

of an X ring are as effective as your fork seals in separating external and internal fluids...

 

 

A modern X ring chains sports 4 low drag contact points which are as
effective as your fork seals in separating external and internal
fluids... that means no amount of external oil (RED) can reach the
critical pin and roller junction behind the X ring to extend its
service life... consequently my definition of a worn out chain is
after the 3rd adjustment because that is undeniable evidence that the
factory installed grease is beginning to fail to lube the critical pin
roller junction hidden behind the X ring... the length of the chain is
growing because of this metal to metal wear... I can not call a chain
serviceable that is grinding metal... it's like saying that a dry
bearing that runs ruff is acceptable... the net result is another 2 to
3% drop in RWHP as more energy is lost grinding metal behind the X
ring...

 

 

 

[RobF]

40 minutes ago, BusyLittleShop said:

Auto chain oilers where designed for non O ring standard chains back in the 60s for London Motorcycle Curriers... they were never designed for O ring chains...

 

Auto oiler *will not* replenish the factory lube (gray lines) at this critical junction...  because no amount of external oil (RED) can reach the critical pin and roller junction behind the X ring to extend its service life... the 4 points of an X ring are as effective as your fork seals in separating external and internal fluids...

 

BLS,

 

I think I understand the point you are making here, but I'm maybe still a little confused.

 

1. What, then, are we lubricating when we perform our scheduled chain maintenance?

 

2. Stipulating that scheduled manual chain lubrication doesn't penetrate the modern o-ring, do we agree that a Scottoiler is a reliable substitute for that prescribed manual lubrication?

[Auspanglish]

If this is so, then the external lube we apply must serve to reduce wear on the sprockets and surfaces of the chain that enter into contact with them?

Or is there more...?

[Aegisranger]

6 hours ago, BusyLittleShop said:

 

 the only worth one can expect is the fact that if you coat the chain in enough oil the running temp is lower where the factory grease has a chance to live longer but oh the price
one pays for that single benefit...

 

 

No, that's not the "only worth one can expect"...   Chains that aren't kept lubed get dirty and rusty.  Dirt and rust eat away at the o-ring or x-ring causing it to fail prematurely, which then compromises the internal "factory" grease.  When the dirt or rust get in or the internal grease leaks out, your chain wears out fast.  The scottoiler continually keeps a small amount of fresh, clean oil on the chain, which prevents rust and flings off taking the dirt with it.  Super sticky chain lubes collect dirt which acts as an abrasive paste on the rollers and sprockets.

 

I've been dealing with chains and sprockets since 1976, over a half-million miles cleaning, lubing, adjusting and replacing them.  My chains and sprockets are lasting longer with the scottoiler than they did before.  YMMV.  Maybe you don't get enough rain in Sacramento to deal with rust, but I'm sure you have dirt there.  Maybe you clean and lube your chains after each trip, but most people don't.  The scottoiler can't extend the life of the chain beyond it's design limits, but it can and does help prevent premature wear due to dirt and rust damage where those issues are prevalent or when the rider doesn't meticulously maintain the chain.

 

[BusyLittleShop]

On 9/20/2016 at 2:58 PM, RobF said:

 

BLS,

 

I think I understand the point you are making here, but I'm maybe still a little confused.

 

1. What, then, are we lubricating when we perform our scheduled chain maintenance?

 

2. Stipulating that scheduled manual chain lubrication doesn't penetrate the modern o-ring, do we agree that a Scottoiler is a reliable substitute for that prescribed manual lubrication?

 

 

We are lubing the external roller and between the roller and the
sprockets (red area in my drawing)... we are not lubing the X rings
nor behind the X rings so any oil applied in that effort is wasted
fling off...

 

Auto oilers reliably coat the chain like an leaky counter shaft seal
but that is a moot point since no amount of external oil will reach
the critical pin and roller junction effectively sealed behind the X
rings to help extend life...

However if you ran a non X ring chain then I would agree Mr. Scott's
oiler is a reliable substitute for that prescribed manual lubrication
because oil would have a chance to migrate to the critical pin and
roller junction...

 

Think about it... we know cam chains don't wear out at all like drive
chains because the cam chain's critical pin and roller junction have
continuous oil supply... now if we install an X ring chain in place of
the non X ring cam chain it would begin wearing at the critical pin
and roller junction about as often as the drive chain even though it
operates in a hail storm of fresh hot oil non of it will migrate
behind the X ring and extend the life of the critical pin and roller
junction... wear will happen and the chain length will grow...

 

 

[BusyLittleShop]

On 9/20/2016 at 8:37 PM, Aegisranger said:

 

No, that's not the "only worth one can expect"...   Chains that aren't kept lubed get dirty and rusty.  Dirt and rust eat away at the o-ring or x-ring causing it to fail prematurely, which then compromises the internal "factory" grease.  When the dirt or rust get in or the internal grease leaks out, your chain wears out fast.  The scottoiler continually keeps a small amount of fresh, clean oil on the chain, which prevents rust and flings off taking the dirt with it.  Super sticky chain lubes collect dirt which acts as an abrasive paste on the rollers and sprockets.

 

 

 

 

Have you noticed that a dry chain attracts less dirt than a oily one??? 

 

Chain manufactures today actually use a highly fluorinated
fluoroelastomer known commercially as Viton or Kalrez... very tough
stuff... It has a excellent resistance to most chemicals including
sulfur... sulfur chloride... sulfur dioxide... sulfur hexaflouride to
name a few... most important it doesn't need special protection from

dirt or few rust spots... they will far out last a chain's life...

 

 

[Auspanglish]

Moral of the story: you still need to lube your chain otherwise your sprockets and the parts of the chain that come into contact with them will suffer premature wear and you'll be swapping them out sooner (spending more money than the cost of lube).

[sfdownhill]

Great thread! Too many interesting and educational points made and links shared to quote them all. Bottom line after reading the entire thread and reading/viewing all the links - I'm going to switch from WD40 and try Motul Chain Paste applied after a not-yet-specified chain cleaner used after a chain brush after a bike wash.

 

I haven't ridden street or track since 2010, but since this past March I have been doing some in-depth mechanical work and maintenance on two 2002 VFRs and one 2001 VFR. I put new chains on the 2002's before selling them, so my chain maintenance experience is limited to the 2001, which I purchased in early July 2016 with 36000 miles on the clock. It had an RK chain that was correctly adjusted [1.125" of free play]. The RK didn't bind and held tight to the rear [driven] sprocket when I pulled on the chain to see if it was worn [I pulled on the chain at the rearmost point on the sprocket while the wheel was suspended] . I rode the VFR locally during July and used only WD40 for the purpose of dispersing water, inhibiting rust, and conditioning the o-rings - I don't count on WD40 for lubrication. I took a 3400 mile trip from Socal through the pac NW in August, applying WD40 and wiping down the chain every 500 miles or so. After the trip, there was no noticeable chain stretch or looseness when I pulled the chain at the rear sprocket. Sep 9-12 I joined BrianF's amazing Kernville/sierras ride. The sierras riding was vastly more spirited than the pac NW ride. I treated the chain with WD-40 twice on the 1500 mile sierras trip. On the last day's return to Socal, I noticed the chain rattling - it had stretched noticeably. I tightened the chain when I got home and even with only 1.25" of free play in the chain, it pulled away from the rear sprocket about 1/8". I'm not sure if the hard riding of the sierras trip is the cause of the seemingly sudden chain wear, but I am going to change my maintenance practice to include serious chain lube. I hope to find better chain longevity. I'm considering investing in an identical RK o-ring chain immediately [And maybe ripping through the sierras routes] to see if proper lube stops sudden stretch of my road chain.

 

Frame of reference - I used to feel confident about WD-40 because I had been riding only dirtbikes since 2011, and I had been using only WD40 on my CRF450R's DID VX2 chain since I bought the chain 2 years ago. I ride twice a month on motocross tracks [which always have at least some mud], desert, or goat trails, etc. After the first ride on the VX2 [with two new sprockets], I adjusted the chain to compensate for initial stretch, and since then all 'normal' dirtbike chain wear has seemed to stop. I use a chain brush, then wash the bike after every ride, then soak the chain in WD40, then wipe the chain dry with a rag. That's it.

[jeffyjeff]

every afternoon when I get home from work, (65-125 miles depending on the day), I put the bike on the center stand and give the chain one or two oil can squirts of 90 wt gear oil. In the morning before leaving for work, I squirt a dab of wd40 on a rag and wipe the chain down (reduces splatter onto the rear wheel).  Using this regimen, my bike had 48,800 miles on the chain when I sold it, and the chain was still serviceable (tight on the rear sprocket).

 

Most riders won't be so anal about chain maintenance, but if you're still reading this thread after three pages of posts, you might qualify.

[sfdownhill]

El Jefe - I'll try your regimen. I like its 48,800 mile empirical result. Someone else mentioned using synthetic 90wt gear oil - do you think synthetic has any advantage? Which brand/model 90w do you use?

[jeffyjeff]

I personally use Valvoline, but I don't think it matters much.  I put synthetic in my Aerostar's differential, and had the Valvoline dino oil left on the shelf.  Man, I've had that bottle for something like 6 years now and it's still almost half full.

[sfdownhill]

Sounds good - thanks for the input.

[Cogswell]

This is the box from my last D.I.D. chain with their recommended maintenance practice, replacement criteria and note on master link selection.  I have never seen 80w-90 oil in a spray can, but maybe they do sell it. 

 

 

[BusyLittleShop]

3 hours ago, Cogswell said:

 

 

 

DID says "External lube every 300 miles to prevent rust and ensure performance" I gather "ensure performance" is HP related because there is no mention of lube to ensure longevity or arrest premature wear...

 

 

 

[thx113]

I have 28,000km on my CBR1100 chain, it has no tight spots and is only about a third of the way along the wear indicator green section.

Chain has been lubed regularly with Maxima chain wax with occasional cleanings with kero.

I have 2 NOS genuine Honda chain and sprocket kits on the shelf waiting for this one to wear out (I thought I might get 10k originally).

[BusyLittleShop]

8 hours ago, thx113 said:

I have 28,000km on my CBR1100 chain, it has no tight spots and is only about a third of the way along the wear indicator green section.

 

 

Its a a third of the way along the wear indicator green section because of metal to metal wear at the critical pin and roller junction behind the X rings...

[Bent]

BLS, I hereby nominate you to develop and patent a chain requiring minimal lubrication that doesn't wear out .  I suspect metallurgy will be the key.  I wonder what a titanium chain would cost and if that would wear any less.  I would pay more for a chain requiring less lubrication that doesn't wear.  Chains are due a technology leap.