Member Contributer Q-Dawg Posted February 17, 2015 Member Contributer Share Posted February 17, 2015 Well, I am looking to embrace intercom technology again and get rid of my old wired Starcom1 for something modern. Right now I am not happy with the choices available. A few look decent on paper, but here's where I am at with my choices for now: - Sena 20S - Sena SMH10 - Sena 10C (not released yet) - Scala G9X - Scala Pack Talk (not released yet, due Q1 of 2015?) - Interphone F5MC The 2014 model Sena 20S should be easily my first choice (and it was), but the execution has left a lot of people pissed off with Sena and their product being rolled out with design flaws and usability issues. Issues with base / intercom latch, or housing breaking, water resistancy, and lack of FM reception top the list of issues that firmware updates cannot fix. I thought they would have had this thing working well by now, but it sounds like it keeps giving people problems. It does have a decent warranty, and product support seems decent. Do I wait for a few more usability bugs to be worked out, risk having issues and get it anyway? If the latch breaks, people have had success keeping them together with zip ties, which sounds like it could keep things rolling until one gets home to do warranty call. The latch issue is my single biggest concern, but I am not that familiar with the dropped pairings or audio switching problems. The Sena SMH10 is the older tried-and-true Sena product. It works well from all accounts, but is the older technology, soon to be eclipsed with newer products. It does not have smartphone apps like the Scala G9X or Sena 20S to manage user settings and pairing to devices. With today's complex systems, having the smart phone app makes device management more intuitive, instead of using VOX commands or pushing a lot of buttons. I kind of wanted the smartphone app feature. The unreleased 2015 model Sena 10C promises to take the Bluetooth 4.0 functionality to the next level with addition of HD camera (I have no action camera yet, so this interests me), but i can't be enthusiastic about a product that looks so similar to the 20S and might have some of the same issues. I certainly don't want to be a guinea pig on my trip this summer, after seeing how many 20S users got left stranded with delays and broken equipment that didn't function properly (sometimes right out of the box.) The 2014 model Scala G9X (refreshed G9) looks promising with smartphone app, but still lacks Bluetooth 4.0 and universal pairing options. The lack of universal pairing is a major drawback, as several of my other rider friends use Sena sets. I don't know how well it pairs to other Scala intercom equipment. The unreleased 2015 model Scala Pack Talk offers better network performance (from what I know of R/C toy radio transmitters, this new Scala follows same newer standards of signal management) and sounds like it will be more seamless with separated riders that are paired to the group able to drop off or rejoin the group with less issues. Bluetooth 4.0 and full backward compatibility with older Scala models, FM tuner, roller wheel interface, IP67 dust/water resistant, and smartphone app. Again no mention of universal pairing. Cardo has commented that there is no need for universal pairing "since other manufacturers take care of this for them", which is frustrating for an otherwise very promising product. Interphone F5MC is the red herring. It seems to do many things well on paper, but it doesn't have smart phone app. I can't find a lot of information on how well the universal pairing feature works, or what other faults it might have. Doesn't appear to be friendly towards earbuds, which is kind of important to me. So, which of these flawed choices would you make? I really didn't want to settle, the 20S had everything I wanted, except dependability, but that is kind of a deal breaker for most people. I don't take the advice "to buy something else, due to the problems they are having" lightly from vendor that distributes them and other brands. My primary use is going to be rider / passenger converstations. The bike to bike communication is a bonus, and as long as I can talk to one or two other people in the group, I would be happy being able to tell them to "keep going, i just need to stop for a second to fix my jacket" or something. My wife and I have very different music tastes, and we will want to each be able to stereo stream our music via Bluetooth. My main MP3 is integrated into the GPS, but I also wish to have my radar detector mix into there as well. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wera803 Posted February 18, 2015 Share Posted February 18, 2015 I used to have the SMH10, but exclusively wear custom molded stereo plugs and would go through the cradle every 6-12 months. I upgraded to the 20S last Aug and had many of the problems you described. I think they are all fixed now, but wasn't happy when struggling through them when getting ready for a big trip. I don't have any experience with the Scala's. I have been through the older Chatterbox, Nady, and Autocom units. I can say using Bluetooth and not being tethered to the bike is the way to go. Next thing to add for me is a SR10 so I can add my Valentine One radar detector. I can also pipe my GPS through that and still have my iPhone connected for music. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WGREGT Posted February 18, 2015 Share Posted February 18, 2015 My riding friends and I still use the Chatterbox X1 and I'm very happy with that. It's bigger than most, but I don't care. It's stuck to the side of my helmet, so not tethered to the bike. I'd be interested to hear what you end up going with. My GPS is mounted in front of me, so I don't need audio for that. My radar detector is in view as well, so I rely on the visual alert for that just fine. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Member Contributer deltaboxii Posted February 18, 2015 Member Contributer Share Posted February 18, 2015 I have tried Scalas and never had any luck with them. Their customer service is horrible, so bad that if they were the only communicator on the planet I would prefer not to have one than a Scala! My SMH 10 has been reliable and trouble free. It may not be the latest and greatest, but gets the job done. I can listen to music, answer/ make calls, and hear my GPS directions from my Zumo. Not sure that I really need anything more, but someone will think of it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Member Contributer Duc2V4 Posted February 18, 2015 Member Contributer Share Posted February 18, 2015 Contrary to Delta's experience, I have had great results with my Scala units, I have the G9x and the Schuberth SRC system (made by Cardo) and can say both work very well, the extra quietness of the Schuberth helmet really helps out here, I can hear music and phone calls no problem. Note that I don't usually take calls while riding but have done it a few times when I new the call was important. The G9x also has both an Android and Apple App that allows you to change your settings from your phone. Another feature I like is the ability to easily pair the G9x with other Scala units. All you have to do is put it into the pairing mode and then bump the two units together and they are instantly paired. Member Dedofnite and I did this when we had stopped for breakfast. Literally took about 5 minutes from reading the instructions to getting them linked. You can link up to 8 other units and toggle between each user, although I have not done this so cannot speak on how easy/difficult this is to perform. You can however allow for up to 4 people to communicate at the same time. It's a little tricky but once you understand how the setup works it's pretty cool, I saw this demonstration at the IMS show last year. One thing that Scala does not openly support is "universal" connection, BUT you can connect to it from other devices that do. The drawback to this is that the other units, regardless of make (so I'm told) use one of their Bluetooth channels to connect to other units not of the same make, so in a sense you can connect to a Scala but both users lose a Bluetooth channel to do so. What this means is that if you connect to a phone AND a GPS or Radar unit via Bluetooth, you would have to lose connection to one of those devices to connect to another makes comm unit. That being said, all of the units you have listed are probably the same level of quality but the capability and features may need to be researched. I like watching the videos that Revzilla produces but I'm sure there are other places for reviews, webbikeworld.,com is a good one. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Member Contributer MBrane Posted February 18, 2015 Member Contributer Share Posted February 18, 2015 Red Herring (F5MC) user here. Had the system for a few months. Previously using a GMRS system for BTB. Easy to setup with iPhone, and Android. Intercom range is typical for modern BT i.e 1/4 to 1/2 mile max in the canyons. Leaving the intercom open without talking eventually produces what we call the steel drum construction crew. At first it was annoying, but is now a point of humor on our rides. Music streaming has an occasional glitch. Haven't had the opportunity yet to try the universal intercom feature, but the units work as advertised so don't see a problem with that. Volume is not a problem with plugs in. Battery life is good. I miss the extended range of the GMRS, but not the wires. Somebody needs to make a system that can integrate the 2. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WGREGT Posted February 18, 2015 Share Posted February 18, 2015 Wires on the helmet? Bahhhh...not a big deal. Route them out the back of the helmet like I do. I don't even notice them. Bluetooth I suspect is nice, but how long can your phone last with a 100% charge while running bluetooth? Add in music and it's what...3 hours? The range (5 miles) is what I like about the X1. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Member Contributer Skids Posted February 18, 2015 Member Contributer Share Posted February 18, 2015 Wires on the helmet? Bahhhh...not a big deal. Route them out the back of the helmet like I do. I don't even notice them. Bluetooth I suspect is nice, but how long can your phone last with a 100% charge while running bluetooth? Add in music and it's what...3 hours? More than that. I play B/T music through my SMH-10 daily and on an hour+ ride, it uses less than 3% battery. Depends what else you have switched on......wifi? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
zRoYz Posted February 18, 2015 Share Posted February 18, 2015 I have a Sena SMH-10 which has had only minor problems which firmware updates since first buying years ago mostly addressed, the one thing that has failed is the ear bud aux base as the plug connection rubber has failed twice (replaced under warranty). Sena has upgraded the connection I'm told but don't have that newer base yet as not using it so haven't bothered claiming warranty for the 2nd failed base. There very good when it comes to replacing failed parts even if years old so that's a plus. At present I'm using the 20S & agree after purchasing it felt the clip that holds the unit on the slider looks like a weak point, but mine hasn't failed yet. It has allot of features but honestly some don't work well at all like the tap your helmet sensor to enter command menu which is very hit & miss. I don't use FM radio so can't comment on that as use a Zumo for music player & my phone also connects to the Zumo. So the only connection I use is 20S to Zumo which so far works fine. I experience with both the SMH-10 & 20S at times bad connection quality of sound but that can also be a Zumo glitch but it only takes turning off either device & back on again to correct when that happens. The speech recognition seems to work very well so can live with access menu motion sensor being hit & miss. I'm happy enough with the Sena mainly because there warranty replacement of failed parts hasn't been a problem & it does what I require, the big bonus for me with the 20S is ambient mode being able to keep helmet on to talk to people at traffic lights etc as the SMH-10 doesn't have that feature. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wera803 Posted February 18, 2015 Share Posted February 18, 2015 I miss the extended range of the GMRS, but not the wires. Somebody needs to make a system that can integrate the 2.Sena make the SR10 which a 2-way radio plugs into, then bluetooths to your headset (put the SR10 and radio in your tank bag or under the seat). They make adapter cables for the different radios, but I'm not sure if any are GMRS or all are FRS. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DriverDave Posted February 18, 2015 Share Posted February 18, 2015 I've had an SMH10 for over 3 years now and it's still going strong. With the current firmware, it now has universal pairing just like the 20s. One feature I really like is the fairly cheap helmet clamp kits. Each time I get a new helmet, I can just spend an extra $30 on a new clamp kit and continue to use the Sena on every helmet I own. I've also found it has much better battery life than my friend's Scala. I can get close to 10 hours of music on an all day ride. If I were recommending one, I'd have to still go with the SMH10 over the 20s. Between the higher cost and continued problems, I think it's the better buy. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WGREGT Posted February 18, 2015 Share Posted February 18, 2015 Man, it seems like this category is ripe for some company (perhaps a new one?) to come along with a better design that has their sh*t together and run away with it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Member Contributer didit Posted February 18, 2015 Member Contributer Share Posted February 18, 2015 I've already PM'd Qdawg with comments. I use a Scala, integrated into a Shoie GT Air. Audio is great at low/ in town speeds. Acceptable at higher/ back road & highway speeds. Using a Ampli-rider with 3 inputs to take in the GPS (built in MP3) and radar detector, then have a bluetooth transmitter on the output. This set up works very nicely, getting audio warning from the radar detector over top music and/ or GPS turn notification. I don't use my phone for music or calls when riding. The charge on the scala and the BT transmitter both last for a full day (8-10 hrs) of riding easily. When I'm not using the radar, the scala connects directly to my GPS unit via Bluetooth quickly and easily. The only caveat, is when another rider calls me via intercom, it overrides everything so if the radar goes off while chatting, I won't hear it. Not a problem, as typically not chatting whilst moving at non-compliant speeds. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
enzed_viffer Posted February 18, 2015 Share Posted February 18, 2015 I've had a Sena SMH10 for nearly as long as DriverDave, and use it every time I ride the bike (so that's at least twice every weekday, plus whatever weekend rides I do). I really like it, and hav e no intentions of changing or upgrading it. The only wee niggles I have with it is it very occasionally cuts out for a second, and I don't know why; don't think it's a fault or glitch, just reacting to a strong nearby Bluetooth signal (such as a pairing request) then rejecting it (?). Even though my ShoeiXR1100's not particularly noisy, I've found that wearing Howard Leight earplugs pulled out very slightly works well to block out most ambient noise such as wind, while allowing me to hear traffic, the engine, and clear music streamed from my cellphone. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Member Contributer MBrane Posted February 19, 2015 Member Contributer Share Posted February 19, 2015 I miss the extended range of the GMRS, but not the wires. Somebody needs to make a system that can integrate the 2.Sena make the SR10 which a 2-way radio plugs into, then bluetooths to your headset (put the SR10 and radio in your tank bag or under the seat). They make adapter cables for the different radios, but I'm not sure if any are GMRS or all are FRS. The problem with the adaptors is they cost more than both radios, and you need 2. Pushes the cost up to where it's not really worth it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wera803 Posted February 19, 2015 Share Posted February 19, 2015 I miss the extended range of the GMRS, but not the wires. Somebody needs to make a system that can integrate the 2.Sena make the SR10 which a 2-way radio plugs into, then bluetooths to your headset (put the SR10 and radio in your tank bag or under the seat). They make adapter cables for the different radios, but I'm not sure if any are GMRS or all are FRS. The problem with the adaptors is they cost more than both radios, and you need 2. Pushes the cost up to where it's not really worth it.Can't disagree with you on that point! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Member Contributer Marsman99 Posted February 19, 2015 Member Contributer Share Posted February 19, 2015 I have have the Sena 20S and can't really recommend it. Paper features sounded great, but in reality they aren't. It performs like a product rushed to market without proper beta testing. Examples: piss poor Bluetooth audio from smartphone (yes, phone volume is max), yet the voice prompts are painfully loud. FM reception is a joke, not even functional. The button mic is easily damaged when picking up your helmet. Mics need to be exactly positioned or voice is garbled. Was never able to link to a Scala G9X unit despite following "instructions" exactly, and this was the main reason I bought it! Haven't ridden in rain, but works fine in heavy mist. In general, controls are awkward. For me, it really is only good for BT music (at low volume), phone calls, and comm with another 20S. Pluses: great battery life, no issue with latch (works fine on mine), works great with other Sena 20S unit communication. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Member Contributer JZH Posted February 19, 2015 Member Contributer Share Posted February 19, 2015 I had long been an Autocom user (since the Pro-M1) until I decided last year to go Bluetooth. After much research, I decided to give the Sena 20S a miss (it had been my first choice) and bought a pair of SMH-10s. Reading these comments, I'm glad I did! Priorities of the various inputs is a big issue with BT headsets, and AFAIK wired intercom systems are much more flexible in that regard. But BT does work fairly well, based on my limited usage so far. I won't be going back to wired systems, but I expect I will upgrade to another BT system once the features they have are sorted and maybe a few more features are added. Until then, I'm happy with the SMH-10. Ciao, Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Member Contributer Axel_7 Posted February 19, 2015 Member Contributer Share Posted February 19, 2015 http://www.sena.com/product/intercoms/10u/ Sena just sent this to me... I have had my sena set since the first run of the SMH10 dual first came out (the first run of them didnt have a option to do an firmware upgrade)... And it has run great... We ride 2 up lots so lots of helmet to helmet bluetooth.. And some limited 3rd set mixed... with mixed results... As i think my helmet is too loud as other riders always say we are clear and loud. Maybe im going def. Will be sticking with sena for the next set. But helmet upgrade first ... Love the GT Air but i hear its still a loud lid.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Member Contributer Duc2V4 Posted February 20, 2015 Member Contributer Share Posted February 20, 2015 ... Love the GT Air but i hear its still a loud lid.... A lot quieter than my old RF-1100 but still louder than my Schuberth. Good lid and I can still use it with my Scala no problem, although when going at high speeds, the wind noise does cause a bit of interference, but street/cruising speeds it's fine. Have to say overall it's a good lid. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Member Contributer Duc2V4 Posted February 20, 2015 Member Contributer Share Posted February 20, 2015 Now this is a bit timely, don't you think? http://www.revzilla.com/2015-best-motorcycle-bluetooth-communicators-buyers-guide Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WGREGT Posted February 20, 2015 Share Posted February 20, 2015 MOTORCYCLIST mag had a comparison a bit ago as well. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Member Contributer luvtoleanit Posted February 20, 2015 Member Contributer Share Posted February 20, 2015 Still using the SMH10R. Great little unit, minimal design. Until they have something that is a clear step better no desire to change anything. I would love an app on the phone to control it and better speakers but I'm sure both will come in time. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Member Contributer digitallyhip Posted February 21, 2015 Member Contributer Share Posted February 21, 2015 http://www.sena.com/product/intercoms/10u/ Sena just sent this to me... I have had my sena set since the first run of the SMH10 dual first came out (the first run of them didnt have a option to do an firmware upgrade)... And it has run great... We ride 2 up lots so lots of helmet to helmet bluetooth.. And some limited 3rd set mixed... with mixed results... As i think my helmet is too loud as other riders always say we are clear and loud. Maybe im going def. Will be sticking with sena for the next set. But helmet upgrade first ... Love the GT Air but i hear its still a loud lid.... This looks really cool! Not "buy a new helmet" cool, but cool nonetheless I've been running the SMH10 for three years now and have fixed my two gripes: Audio volume. Simply put: the only person I know who is satisfied with the base system's speaker volume is my wife. And she positions the speaker perfectly on top of her hearing aid! This is fixed by buying the helmet clamp kit for earbuds. Plenty of volume and I combined that with a set of S Plug earbuds to make a really effective noise-isolating solution. But this introduces... As several people have mentioned, the plug for your earbuds is flimsy and terribly designed. The issue is that any tension on the earbud cable pulls on moves the unsupported plug around. At least once a year (with six month, two hour daily commuting use) this resulted in failure of the wires running to the plug. Sena swore that they were fixing the issue, but I eventually worked around it by using the supplied 3.5mm extension cable. I've thrown away a few of these in the two years since I started using them, but the jack on the clamp has survived! I have also considered using Sugru to bond the jack on the clamp to the body of the clamp itself. One day... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Member Contributer Axel_7 Posted February 21, 2015 Member Contributer Share Posted February 21, 2015 After watching the Revzilla video im not thinking of the 20 love the idea of the app to control pairing :) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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