crakerjac Posted May 30, 2014 Share Posted May 30, 2014 Took the bike to work today and on the way home, the bike did something strange. I rode the bike 10-15 miles in 90 degree F heat, not terribly hot but noteworthy nevertheless, and pull up to a stop light. I wait for the light to turn green and make a right hand turn. Another car in front of me was making a right as well, so I was easy on the throttle in 1st gear. Got to 3k RPM or so and I lost almost all my power (almost like the bike decided to go too rich/lean). Gave the bike a little more throttle to see if I could ride it out, and about 5 seconds later, the bike started running just fine again. I pull up to another stoplight shortly after the bike recovers and the bike was idling at 1500 RPMs... And very steady at that RPM. This is a short light so I had just enough time to go huh... That's odd... Next light idle is fine. I know I have too many stupid stop lights on my commute, but that a problem for another day. Does anybody have any idea what is going on? I've the bike so something similar, but only when it was cold. Do I have a bad O2 sensor or MAP sensor? I'm not running a PCV, but could I just remove the O2 sensor and replace it with one of those dummy units? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Recalcitrance Posted May 30, 2014 Share Posted May 30, 2014 Dirty fuel? Did you recently fill your tank? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
crakerjac Posted May 30, 2014 Author Share Posted May 30, 2014 I've got about 100 miles on this tank of gas. Fuel gage indicates about half a tank. I filled up last at the same place I usually go... What worries me is this looks just like the stumbling and surging issue that never got resolved a while back. I've had something similar happen when the bike was cold, but never at operating temperature. Sent from my SAMSUNG Galaxy SIII using Tapatalk 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Recalcitrance Posted May 31, 2014 Share Posted May 31, 2014 I had similar issues once and my tank was nearly empty. Ran fine until then. It was also cold in the mornings but very warm in the afternoons. Usual gas station but might have gotten there right after the tanker left and didn't see it. 100+ on the freeway in VTEC for a couple seconds and problem solved. Sediment was my problem but if you're having a repeat performance, then maybe it's a good place to start. Simple options first before entertaining anything complicated and expensive. Good luck. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Taycio Posted May 31, 2014 Share Posted May 31, 2014 I have experienced a similar feeling with my VFR1200. The "stumbling" has happened twice to me. Both on very long two-up rides when it was pretty hot out. Both accelerating in traffic. Not sure what to attribute it too yet. And then there is the intermittent high idle... this again is something that was experienced after coming to a stop on a longer ride when it was hot out. I don't think it was much over 90 out. Really all seems to be centered around hot air temps and the FI system... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
crakerjac Posted May 31, 2014 Author Share Posted May 31, 2014 I've heard claims that a PCV fixes the problem, so I wonder if it has something to do with the O2 sensor. If it's sediment in my tank, how would I figure that out and/or clear out the tank? Sent from my SAMSUNG Galaxy SIII using Tapatalk 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Member Contributer Yokel Posted May 31, 2014 Member Contributer Share Posted May 31, 2014 Turning your O2 bung into a "fake" one will screw with your fueling a bit I would think. I have experienced this too... but as you said rarely and primarily only when cold. Check for an ECU update at the dealer perhaps? Could be the throttle by wire too... or a stuffy injector. *Edit* or a failing fuel pump? System pressure good? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
crakerjac Posted May 31, 2014 Author Share Posted May 31, 2014 I'm not throwing any fault codes. How would I check for system pressure or a failing fuel pump? Sent from my SAMSUNG Galaxy SIII using Tapatalk 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Member Contributer Yokel Posted May 31, 2014 Member Contributer Share Posted May 31, 2014 I don't know if the fuel pump would trip a fault code if it's under-pressure... Does it sound different? I would guess throw a pressure gauge on a line and see. There should be an attached filter as well... I would think if it was fuel pump (after further reflection) that you'd see this issue more commonly. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
crakerjac Posted May 31, 2014 Author Share Posted May 31, 2014 I'm thinking that either the O2 sensor or MAP sensor is fouling out causing the bike to run rich until the condition clears itself. Almost makes me miss my 9er where there ECU did no A/F adjustments on the fly. Sent from my SAMSUNG Galaxy SIII using Tapatalk 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Taycio Posted May 31, 2014 Share Posted May 31, 2014 Usually a fuel pump failing is not something that gets better after it gets worse (ie. It shouldn't stumble then recover like nothing happened). And if It does show a symptom of a hesitation then the problem should happen more frequently as it gets worse. Not a stumble once in every 5k miles. Now this does remind me of an intermittent stumble that the early 05 mustang GT's would have. Ford used what is called a saddle type fuel tank which needed a lift pump to push fuel from one dip in the tank over to where the actual fuel pump was. It turned out that in some situations that air bubbles would accumulate around the main fuel pump during sustained driving and then be knocked loose when the car came to a stop then accelerated. Creating a stumble feeling... My feelings on the 7th gen VFR is more of an O2 sensor problem. It would make sense that it would go away with a PCV (I personally prefer Bazzaz but to each his own) because it sends a fake constant perfect signal to the ECU tricking it into never making any A/F ratio changes from the exhaust burn. It is also possible that it just hasn't happened to anyone who uses a tuning box because they haven't put enough ride time yet. Anyone with a PCV or Bazzaz care to chime in with their testing miles? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dynajohn Posted June 1, 2014 Share Posted June 1, 2014 Took the bike to work today and on the way home, the bike did something strange. I rode the bike 10-15 miles in 90 degree F heat, not terribly hot but noteworthy nevertheless, and pull up to a stop light. I wait for the light to turn green and make a right hand turn. Another car in front of me was making a right as well, so I was easy on the throttle in 1st gear. Got to 3k RPM or so and I lost almost all my power (almost like the bike decided to go too rich/lean). Gave the bike a little more throttle to see if I could ride it out, and about 5 seconds later, the bike started running just fine again. I pull up to another stoplight shortly after the bike recovers and the bike was idling at 1500 RPMs... And very steady at that RPM. This is a short light so I had just enough time to go huh... That's odd... Next light idle is fine. I know I have too many stupid stop lights on my commute, but that a problem for another day. Does anybody have any idea what is going on? I've the bike so something similar, but only when it was cold. Do I have a bad O2 sensor or MAP sensor? I'm not running a PCV, but could I just remove the O2 sensor and replace it with one of those dummy units? I doubt this is a 02 sensor problem. They are normally either good or bad, not intermittent. You were in a congested area with many traffic lights in 90+ degree weather. How hot was the bike? My guess at least 4 bars on the temp indicator. I suspect nothing is wrong, just the ECU going into a protection mode when the coolant temp got hot enough. The higher idle speed would move more coolant through the engine than at the normal idle RPM. The ECU may also have richened the A/F mixture to help cool the engine. I have never experienced this on my 2013 but the temp never has stayed at 4 bars longer than a minute. Now that my ECU has been re-flashed and the coolant temp setting for the fan lowered to 203F from the stock setting of 223F the coolant temp indicator never goes past 3 bars. One suggestion is to check the coolant level in the radiator after the bike cools off. Mine was low from the dealer after delivery and I added nearly a pint of coolant to top it off. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Member Contributer YTvfr Posted June 3, 2014 Member Contributer Share Posted June 3, 2014 This is the stumbling/surging issue that has plagued some number of 2010 VFR riders (myself included) Honda Canada had my bike for about a month attempting to diagnose the issue. In the end they explained that a software upgrade was applied and they were confident this would solve the issue. I got my bike back in October of last year and didn't get a chance to put any real kms on the bike before the snow arrived. So far this year i've put on 3300kms give or take and have not have the issue re-occur. It truly is intermittent, and scary when it happens, so until I go through an entire riding season without the issue re-occurring I can't say for sure if it has been rectified. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Member Contributer eastbowl2 Posted June 3, 2014 Member Contributer Share Posted June 3, 2014 YT - did Honda warranty that work? Just curious (and did you have an extended warranty?). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Member Contributer YTvfr Posted June 4, 2014 Member Contributer Share Posted June 4, 2014 Hey Eastbowl2 My bike was still under warranty when I reported the problem, and because of that it was covered under normal warranty work. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mscott73racing Posted June 7, 2014 Share Posted June 7, 2014 I am also having this issue. in traffic, lots of starts and stops, bike will surge down and has also stalled out a few times coming to a stop. to top it off it is getting crap mileage, i have yet to pass 130 miles (190kms) without the reserve light coming on. a fill up will allow 15 litres into the tank after 185-195 kms. i wonder if the bad fueling somehow connects all this and am looking for a fix. I have called honda canada and they simply say take it in for diagnosis. which i will, but it is intermittent (other than the bad mileage). there is 8000 kms on the bike so far. I've got over 80000 kms on my 2000 vfr with no problems. right now i'm glad i havent sold my old bike yet.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Member Contributer Switchblade Posted June 7, 2014 Member Contributer Share Posted June 7, 2014 What is the temp of the bike . Wonder if the t-stat is sticking .. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ststrada Posted June 7, 2014 Share Posted June 7, 2014 You didn't say what year your bike was but my guess is you have a pre 13 bike. Stumbling and surging is a well know problem on these bike. I went to Lemon Law route and had American Honda put in a new ECU…no problem since. the is very much a safety issue. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Member Contributer Switchblade Posted June 7, 2014 Member Contributer Share Posted June 7, 2014 You didn't say what year your bike was but my guess is you have a pre 13 bike. Stumbling and surging is a well know problem on these bike. I went to Lemon Law route and had American Honda put in a new ECU…no problem since. the is very much a safety issue. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mscott73racing Posted June 7, 2014 Share Posted June 7, 2014 Yes, my bike is a 2010 1200F, the surging has occurred atoutdoor air temperatures ranging from quite cool ie 45'F up to warm 80'F, but the bike does seem to run hot, I wish it would show the actual engine temp, but all i seem to get is a sad little bar graph. It is almost always at 3 bars after a fast warm up, sometimes 4 bars and the fan seems to rarely be off, most of my riding has been in city this year so far, with lots of stops. I will be taking the bike in and starting the fight to get it resolved, I'm prepared to go back to my 2000 vfr while they have this one. I will be documenting and reporting every step of the way. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Member Contributer Switchblade Posted June 7, 2014 Member Contributer Share Posted June 7, 2014 Wait for some more replies but the fan thing is not right .. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Member Contributer EhViffer Posted June 7, 2014 Member Contributer Share Posted June 7, 2014 Agree fan thing not right. My 2010 runs at about three bars consistently. I'm in Toronto to so same weather conditions. My fan certainly is not running a lot. Usually only when stuck on DVP barely moving. Curious to see your outcome. Sent from my cerebellum using Tapatalk Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Member Contributer Switchblade Posted June 7, 2014 Member Contributer Share Posted June 7, 2014 The t-stat is not opening .. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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