Member Contributer RedShed Posted February 7, 2014 Member Contributer Share Posted February 7, 2014 First off, thanks for this great forum! For those that may recall really old postings from "redshed", I was on a "No VFR" diet, and shooting to get under 200#. Well... I'm still here, mostly lurking, and I have accepted that I am going to ride more often at ~225# than at 190#, so I had better get the bike adjusted to my [ahem] profile.. The bike: 99 VFR with 5,250 miles (garage queen). Stock suspension, No bags, and never ride 2up. My Riding style: Never on the track, I ride for fun, mostly follow the speed limits, and don't push the bike to its limits. I do enjoy spirited riding on rare occasion. I plan trailer the bike to NC this spring, so I will get to see some twisty roads. The problem that I want to solve: At ~240# with gear, the suspension is SOFT and the front dives even under light braking At 15 years old, the suspension needs a refresh, and I want to "do it right" before the NC trip The approach - big bang Since the suspension is 100% untouched and needs to be gone through based on age alone, I figured it is time to do a blitz and rework it all at once. (thanks to BR who's posts educated me that doing front springs alone will leave you unbalanced). I want to catch the mythical beast of correct free sag AND correct rider sag. The plan below was developed based on reading tons of great real world posts from experts here (BaileyRock, Pete McCrary, etc), and reading books. Suggestions / questions welcome. The parts: Rear = picked up a Penske 8983 shock with an 1100# spring. It is used, so l plan to send to Penske for "refresh" Front = Picked up an all balls taper bearing kit for the steering stem (no issue, but while I am "at it" might as well do it all. Not ordered - advice welcome .95 front fork springs (I have no brand loyalty. racetech seems common use, but I'm open to alternatives) Fork re-valve - Race tech type 1 compression - (FMGV S2040) Factory fork seals redline 10wt fork oil While I am at it, I am going to replace the dunlops with the PP2, PR2 combo so loved on this site. If this setup looks good, feel free to add my weight / use case to the "wow" thread as another reference point. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Member Contributer Duc2V4 Posted February 7, 2014 Member Contributer Share Posted February 7, 2014 As with most suspension queries, I always recommend talking to Jamie Daugherty of Daugherty Motorsports ( http://www.daughertymotorsports.com/ ). He recently setup my 5 Gen with new fork internals to the stock forks (springs, valving, adjustable rebound internals) and rebuilt my Penske shock to suit my weight and riding type (i.e. Sport/Track riding) and was very affordable and did a top notch job. He is also a member of the forum and is very approachable. As far as tire choices, things have changed quite a bit in the past few months and there are newer versions of the Michelin PR series, they are now on the PR4. I went with the PP3 and PR2 on my commuter/tourer (6 Gen) and with the PP3/PP3 on my 5 Gen. Cheers and congrats on your newly acquired ride! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Member Contributer Switchblade Posted February 7, 2014 Member Contributer Share Posted February 7, 2014 As with most suspension queries, I always recommend talking to Jamie Daugherty of Daugherty Motorsports ( http://www.daughertymotorsports.com/ ). He recently setup my 5 Gen with new fork internals to the stock forks (springs, valving, adjustable rebound internals) and rebuilt my Penske shock to suit my weight and riding type (i.e. Sport/Track riding) and was very affordable and did a top notch job. He is also a member of the forum and is very approachable. As far as tire choices, things have changed quite a bit in the past few months and there are newer versions of the Michelin PR series, they are now on the PR4. I went with the PP3 and PR2 on my commuter/tourer (6 Gen) and with the PP3/PP3 on my 5 Gen. Cheers and congrats on your newly acquired ride! +1 on Jamie he does excellent work .. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Member Contributer Rush2112 Posted February 7, 2014 Member Contributer Share Posted February 7, 2014 As with most suspension queries, I always recommend talking to Jamie Daugherty of Daugherty Motorsports ( http://www.daughertymotorsports.com/ ). He recently setup my 5 Gen with new fork internals to the stock forks (springs, valving, adjustable rebound internals) and rebuilt my Penske shock to suit my weight and riding type (i.e. Sport/Track riding) and was very affordable and did a top notch job. He is also a member of the forum and is very approachable. As far as tire choices, things have changed quite a bit in the past few months and there are newer versions of the Michelin PR series, they are now on the PR4. I went with the PP3 and PR2 on my commuter/tourer (6 Gen) and with the PP3/PP3 on my 5 Gen. Cheers and congrats on your newly acquired ride! +1 on Jamie he does excellent work .. +1 on your +1... call or email Jamie... his work, prices, and customer service are excellent! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wera803 Posted February 7, 2014 Share Posted February 7, 2014 At 240, you may need to go up to 1.0 front springs. If you plan to still drop more weight, the .95's might be good enough. You will probably have to go up from the 1100 lb rear spring either way though. Probably more like a 1200 or 1250. Jamie put a 1.1 springs in the front and 1200 lb spring on the rear on my 5th gen a year ago and while the sag numbers is very close, it still feels like I could go up to a 1300 or 1350 on the rear......and/or drop the front to 1.05. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Member Contributer JamieDaugherty Posted February 7, 2014 Member Contributer Share Posted February 7, 2014 As mentioned above, I think the springs you are considering are a little soft. I'd probably go with 1.0's and 1200 respectively. You are a little out in the weeds with your proposed front end valving. Either with my valving parts or RT you will NOT want to use 10w fluid. Probably best not to source info online but rather have someone who understands suspension work with you. I'm often amazed at how much bad info there is on the topic of suspension, and how rare it is to find something that is even close to correct. Working with an experienced person will always be your best bet. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Member Contributer Switchblade Posted February 7, 2014 Member Contributer Share Posted February 7, 2014 As with most suspension queries, I always recommend talking to Jamie Daugherty of Daugherty Motorsports ( http://www.daughertymotorsports.com/ ). He recently setup my 5 Gen with new fork internals to the stock forks (springs, valving, adjustable rebound internals) and rebuilt my Penske shock to suit my weight and riding type (i.e. Sport/Track riding) and was very affordable and did a top notch job. He is also a member of the forum and is very approachable. As far as tire choices, things have changed quite a bit in the past few months and there are newer versions of the Michelin PR series, they are now on the PR4. I went with the PP3 and PR2 on my commuter/tourer (6 Gen) and with the PP3/PP3 on my 5 Gen. Cheers and congrats on your newly acquired ride! +1 on Jamie he does excellent work .. And it's his stuff !!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Member Contributer RedShed Posted February 7, 2014 Author Member Contributer Share Posted February 7, 2014 Thanks all. So I ordered a PP3 / PR3 tire set a few minutes ago, I am set there. Now it is down to what to do up front and the spring in back.. Also spoke to Jamie for about 20 minutes about his thoughts. Sounds like 1.0 / 1200 would be his vote for my 225 dry weight. He offers his own valve solutions, and can do the springs as well. I'm still thinking about all I have read and heard, but would love to hear from more of you experienced hands on types who have been there, done that. I really want to get it right! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Member Contributer BonusVFR Posted February 7, 2014 Member Contributer Share Posted February 7, 2014 I am about the same mass and ride for fun as well! I tour with serious lbs but no two up stuff for this bike. I will dig out my Racetech setup which was done at their shop in LA. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Member Contributer Rush2112 Posted February 7, 2014 Member Contributer Share Posted February 7, 2014 I'm about your size (220) and I have 0.95 and 1150 springs revalved to match with Jamie's pistons and valve stacks with Honda 5w fork oil and I love it... I ride aggressive and a little heavier spring probably would've been better for me but I was heavier in the past and I'm on the right path... losing weight is a goal of mine so I kept the springs lighter as a motivator Go Gators! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Member Contributer MBrane Posted February 8, 2014 Member Contributer Share Posted February 8, 2014 205-210 here out of the shower. .975 in front, and 1300lb on the shock. Bike feels great. Race sag unladen (rider only) street sag with luggage. Minimal preload. No adjustment required unless carrying a pillion, and even then it's optional. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Member Contributer RedShed Posted February 11, 2014 Author Member Contributer Share Posted February 11, 2014 Thanks all, based on the feedback here I am almost sold on the 1.0 font / 1200 lbs rear spring combo. At 225 no gear, it seems to be the setup most often quoted. Wera803, may I ask your weight? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wera803 Posted February 11, 2014 Share Posted February 11, 2014 Wera803, may I ask your weight?I'm trying to lose, but currently about 265-270. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Member Contributer CornerCarver Posted February 11, 2014 Member Contributer Share Posted February 11, 2014 Thanks all. So I ordered a PP3 / PR3 tire set a few minutes ago, I am set there. Now it is down to what to do up front and the spring in back.. Also spoke to Jamie for about 20 minutes about his thoughts. Sounds like 1.0 / 1200 would be his vote for my 225 dry weight. He offers his own valve solutions, and can do the springs as well. I'm still thinking about all I have read and heard, but would love to hear from more of you experienced hands on types who have been there, done that. I really want to get it right! If you are not double dog positive SURE of your abilities send your shock and forks off to Jamie. Most people try to increase the fork oil weight and that just makes the damping harsh. It all has to work together. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Member Contributer RedShed Posted February 12, 2014 Author Member Contributer Share Posted February 12, 2014 If you are not double dog positive SURE of your abilities send your shock and forks off to Jamie. Most people try to increase the fork oil weight and that just makes the damping harsh. It all has to work together. Thanks corner carver, great point! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Baileyrock Posted February 14, 2014 Share Posted February 14, 2014 Hey Red, finally getting around to your post!!! I'm at 195 lbs no gear and am running .95's & 1200 lb rear and have what I consider very good numbers. Based on that, lots of playing and your weight I would agree with others here that stiffer springs are needed. IMO a 1200 lb rear would be good for a softer side and 1300 lb would probably dial the rear real close and I would run 1.o kg front as a min. using these suggested rear springs. JD has a nice shim pac for the forks using large port Showa valve bodies if he wants to share it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Member Contributer RedShed Posted February 16, 2014 Author Member Contributer Share Posted February 16, 2014 Thanks BR. Ok so I've decided that I will send the Penske off, and am going to tackle the forks with a buddy who has done several sets already. Here's where I landed, thanks to all for the advice Rear = Penske 8983 shock will send to Penske for "refresh" and have a 1200# spring installed. Front = Picked up an all balls taper bearing kit for the steering stem (no issue, but while I am "at it" might as well do it all. PP3 / PR3 tires in stock sizes Bridgeport 83 deb valve stems 1.0 kg front springs Race tech g2-r compression valves Factory fork seals Maxima 5wt oil Motion pro seal driver I should start the work in 2 or three weekends, I will try to post updates as I go. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Member Contributer RedShed Posted April 1, 2014 Author Member Contributer Share Posted April 1, 2014 According to my better half, I spend lots time on this site and all too often want to duplicate all the cool ideas I see here. She calls it having 'tunnel vision on the motorcycle'. This effort is not much different - She really is a wonderful and supporting wife! And so it begins. What started as "need new tires" has turned into a blitz of refresh / renew. Step 1 - start disassembly prior to vacation. Check. - Step one gotcha - After seeing his 8 spoke and chatting with Marriedman via PM I found I just had to powder coat the wheels The silver wheels look so good - and it would be wasteful not to do it while I am already off the road, right?! So - Here is the first bit of work completed on the 99 VFR. Wheels powder coated in "silver metallic urethane" by a great local shop in Orlando. A look at the back wheel. Yes I had to do the Bridgeport stems, wouldn't you? A look at the front. Yes - the rotors would have looked out of place in gold. IMHO Black is what was needed. A Look at the sparkle of the powder, crummy camera doesn't do it justice! More to follow as work continues. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Member Contributer dgordon Posted April 1, 2014 Member Contributer Share Posted April 1, 2014 This whole thread is just bitchin. Those wheels, valve stems, the full gazoogas = priceless. Wow. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
number9 Posted July 30, 2015 Share Posted July 30, 2015 How much adjustability - if any - are in the stock front forks? I think I've seen conflicting stuff online. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Member Contributer CornerCarver Posted July 31, 2015 Member Contributer Share Posted July 31, 2015 How much adjustability - if any - are in the stock front forks? I think I've seen conflicting stuff online. Depends on what you are trying to adjust. Preload can be adjusted and depending on your weight you may be able to get a good static sag setting with stock spring rates and stock spacer lengths. Compression damping cannot be adjusted but you can play with oil levels and reducing the air spring above the oil to increase compression damping. Rebound is not adjustable. All can be changed/upgraded to fully adjustable with the right combination of Honda parts bin parts or professional help. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Member Contributer zupatun Posted July 31, 2015 Member Contributer Share Posted July 31, 2015 If you've never spoken to Racetech guys OR to Traxxion Dynamics, give them both a call...I don't think they will be too far off of what Jamie says, but they may give you some other options or drive you right back to Jamie. However you will benefit from the discussions IMO... both places are great. http://www.traxxion.com/ http://www.racetech.com/ I love your choice of Penske. I have an Ohlins on th erear currently and I weight 233...The Penske is a GREAT shock. Ohlins is equally nice. I run 0.95's and with the correct damping in my F4i front end it is great for the street, though on trackdays I'd probably move to 1.0 or 1.1 front springs... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Member Contributer VFROZ Posted July 31, 2015 Member Contributer Share Posted July 31, 2015 Just finished doing my front forks and we did a thread about this on OzVFR.It will help you with some ideas.http://www.ozvfr.net/showthread.php?5076-Suspension-what-have-you-doneRead it all if you want to tackle doing it yourself. It's not that hard as long as you are methodical, super clean and start with a good idea of what you want to do. Wow, just realised how long ago this thread was started, Oh well, it will help anyone starting down this road. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
number9 Posted August 1, 2015 Share Posted August 1, 2015 Just finished doing my front forks and we did a thread about this on OzVFR. It will help you with some ideas. http://www.ozvfr.net/showthread.php?5076-Suspension-what-have-you-done Read it all if you want to tackle doing it yourself. It's not that hard as long as you are methodical, super clean and start with a good idea of what you want to do. Wow, just realised how long ago this thread was started, Oh well, it will help anyone starting down this road. Can't view that without logging in. Guess I'll create an account.. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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