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Timing Retard Eliminator, Z-Bomb Alternative?


Guest justin8571

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Guest justin8571

Hello everyone,

I've got a few of questions that I'm sure someone will be able to help me with.

I've just bought a second hand 2013 vfr1200f and was wondering if it still suffers from the timing retard issue. I've read in some places on the internet that it does and on some that it doesn't. I'm considering baying a Z-bomb and obviously don't want to if it's not necessary.

Also, the only timing retard eliminator I can see available for the vfr1200f is the Bazzaz Z-bomb but from what I can gather the first three gears will all read 3. This isn't the end of the world but it's my first bike with a gear indication and it would be nice if it could still work as normal. So, I take it the gear inductor issue hasn't been solved by Bazzaz or anyone else? I've seen an X-tre that solves the issue but it's not available for the vfr

Thanks for your help.

Justin

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Hi, welcome to the site. I have a 2010, which has the first and second gear issues, but I also am confused about the 2013. Dynajohn thinks it is still an issue, so unless you do an ECM flash, you are stuck with the Bazazz.

Other 7th gen owners should chime in here and clean up my mistakes. :goofy:

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I can only speak for what I have noticed as we have two VFR1200 in our household, a 2010 and a 2012. The 2012 is noticeably smoother on acceleration than the 2010. The bogging we get on the 2010 in the first three gears is not there on the 2012 which has the updated ECU settings.No dyno proof just seat of the pants.

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Hello everyone,

I've got a few of questions that I'm sure someone will be able to help me with.

I've just bought a second hand 2013 vfr1200f and was wondering if it still suffers from the timing retard issue. I've read in some places on the internet that it does and on some that it doesn't. I'm considering baying a Z-bomb and obviously don't want to if it's not necessary.

snip

The best thing would be to ride the bike and see if you find a problem. Don't let internet gossip determine how you feel about the bike

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@luvtoleanit... I think I know what thread you are talking about (over on vfrworld... not sure if I can link to it here). The guy said the ignition module made a difference with everything zeroed out... I call BS... from what I understand, it's like having a PCV with a 0 map and saying it makes a world of difference.

edit: looks like someone already linked to that thread.

http://www.vfrdiscussion.com/forum/index.php/topic/74346-pcv-ignition-module/

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I agree with the above, the only alternative that i'm aware of, is a re-flash of the ECU. There is someone here on the forum from Belgium that is having this done and will report back.

I'm still waiting for mine, as my financial adviser (wife) says not until after Christmas... :mad:

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Thank you all very much for taking the time to reply. It's interesting that the 2012 model feels a little smoother than the 2010, maybe Honda has made some adjustments after all. The ECU flash sounds promising, I'll have to search for that thread and keep an eye on it.

Tamworth, I think you're spot-on there, if I hadn't read there was a problem I'd have never known. Still, if there really is an issue it would be nice to get it corrected, especially if I can keep the gear indicator working normally.

All that aside though it's a lovely bike. Had a CB1000R before which was great but the VFR is a different beast all together, it's an incredible machine.

Thanks again

Justin

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Bazzazz bomb is a TRE. Plenty of other bikes has the same things done to them from the factory. I've got a GPI kit on my SV1000S that has TRE built in. Can't say I could tell much difference before/after. My gixxer600 track bunny also has a TRE. Now track riding it does make the difference apparent. Not sure why others haven't offered one for the VFR1200. But they would all do the same thing and mess up the GPI.

I choose not to have Bazzazz bomb, because I have not found the "problem" apparent enough to warrant messing up the GPI. But that's just me. Plenty of others swear by it, and more power to them... literally.

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ZBOMB, 60 bucks, 15 minutes, done...completely different bike in 1st and 2nd gear....I bought one, lost it, bought another, installed it, then found the first one I bought...so I have an extra....its yours if you want it...

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Hello dadofseven, you've been a busy boy; I take it you don't have TV where you are? I'm only a dad of one, I must watch too much telly!

Would love to buy your Zbomb but I'm in the UK so that might prove a little difficult with posting. Itching to see how much it transforms the first two gears, it's good to hear you think it's a worthwhile upgrade.

Justin

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Hello everyone,

I've got a few of questions that I'm sure someone will be able to help me with.

I've just bought a second hand 2013 vfr1200f and was wondering if it still suffers from the timing retard issue. I've read in some places on the internet that it does and on some that it doesn't. I'm considering baying a Z-bomb and obviously don't want to if it's not necessary.

Also, the only timing retard eliminator I can see available for the vfr1200f is the Bazzaz Z-bomb but from what I can gather the first three gears will all read 3. This isn't the end of the world but it's my first bike with a gear indication and it would be nice if it could still work as normal. So, I take it the gear inductor issue hasn't been solved by Bazzaz or anyone else? I've seen an X-tre that solves the issue but it's not available for the vfr

Thanks for your help.

Justin

The answer is yes Justin the 2013 1200F is still neutered. I had a dyno test done on my bike this week with & without the Z Bomb installed. I had the dyno tuner do two second gear full throttle pulls, one without the Z Bomb installed and the second after installing the Z Bomb. We started both runs at 3,200 RPM's and ran the bike to 10,400 RPM on both runs. My 2013 1200F with the Z Bomb installed made 5 HP more at 3,200 RPM which increased to just under 18 HP at 5,500 RPM and then the difference gradually decreased and the two dyno curves converged again at 7,750 RPM's.

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The Z-Bomb is not a Time Retard Eliminator, it is only an escamotage to fool the ECU that sees always the 3rd gear even when you are in 1st or 2nd gear. Full stop.

The T.R.E. doesn't work with the VFR 1200 that has the ride by wire.

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The Z-Bomb is not a Time Retard Eliminator, it is only an escamotage to fool the ECU that sees always the 3rd gear even when you are in 1st or 2nd gear. Full stop.

The T.R.E. doesn't work with the VFR 1200 that has the ride by wire.

That's exactly what the TRE's on my SV and Gixxer do. They are plugged in between the gear position sensor and the ECU and does basically the same thing as the Z-Bomb.

Kawi did the same timing retard on lower gears on the '08 ZX10R I had. Riding that bike on the road was already like walking an angry Doberman, I did not want to put a TRE on it and make it yank any harder than it already did.

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Kawi did the same timing retard on lower gears on the '08 ZX10R I had. Riding that bike on the road was already like walking an angry Doberman, I did not want to put a TRE on it and make it yank any harder than it already did.

C'mon, live a little :goofy:

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C'mon, live a little :goofy:

lol, I did. I got rid of the Doberman and traded it for an '08 RSVR Factory Red Lion. It was like a well-trained Italian Greyhound, compared to the Kwaker. Nothing like a well-sorted litre twin for usable power. Wheelie on demand in 1st and 2nd. Plus full Ohlins and monobloc Brembos to make dipping into that fat torque curve such a joy.

That's the thing with the VFR1200... unlike the ape, it isn't a bike that I care to crack the throttle in 1st and 2nd gear. I enjoy it immensely, but in different ways. To me, a big bird like this is about Grace at Speed. Even if the power were buttery smooth in lower gears, the mass and inertia of the machine still conspire against any funny business down low.

I do miss the ape, but the Speed Triple does a good job of keeping me from trying to ride the VFR1200 in ways Honda didn't intended it for.

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Well said, Voify! Although due to the lack of a Speed Triple, I make my VFR12 do plenty of funny business down low. It's all possible, though maybe not always pleasing to the mechanical ear.

I got my Z-Bomb via a buddy in the USA. He packaged it even smaller (size matters in the USA) and sent it marked 'gift' and customs never gave it a second look. I buy stuff like that all the time via him and it's never failed.

Well worth the money. The bike without it is to me more dangerous to ride. What Honda did there is just nuts IMHO.

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Thanks to you all for your help with this. Thank you Dynajohn for posting your dyno results, 18 bhp is a big difference and I'd love to know Honda's reasoning behind it.

A huge thanks also to Dadofseven who's sent me his spare Zbomb in the post all the way across the pond from the US to England.

Justin

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  • 1 month later...

Just to clarify how Honda has restricted engine output in 1st & 2nd gear on the VFR 1200F. First this is a throttle by wire bike and your right hand controls an input to the ECU. You do not control the throttle plates directly with your right hand. The programming in the ECU decides how much to open the throttle plates based on demand from you as well as what gear the bike is in. There are seven seperate maps in the VFR ECU (one for each gear and the 7th for neutral). Honda is using the same TBW ECU throttle control to restrict output when traction control kicks in on the 2012 & 2013 models. Honda is restricting throttle plate opening to restrict engine output in 1st & 2nd gear.

When I dyno tested my 2013 VFR1200F with & without a ZBomb the result was about the same as the dyno graph posted online by Bazzaz for the 2010 model. Honda apparently made some mapping changes starting with the 2012 traction control bike but they did not remove the power restriction in 1st & 2nd gear.

TRE has become a generic term to describe a device that bypasses the lower gear inputs into the ECU and substitutes gear inputs that are not power restricted. A cheap & effective way to get around the restriction but the downside is you lose some functionality of the gear indicator.

My 2006 & 2013 Kawasaki ZX14's restricted power the same way. Kawasaki also uses a fly by wire which uses two sets of throttle plates in the intake instead of one set like Honda. On the Kawasaki you directly control the throttle plates closest to the intake port. The secondary throttle plates which are upstream are controlled by the ECU. I used a TRE to remove the restriction on the 2006 ZX14 but had Don Guhl (Guhl Motors) do a ECU re-flash to remove the restriction on the 2013 ZX14.

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C'mon, live a little :goofy:

lol, I did. I got rid of the Doberman and traded it for an '08 RSVR Factory Red Lion. It was like a well-trained Italian Greyhound, compared to the Kwaker. Nothing like a well-sorted litre twin for usable power. Wheelie on demand in 1st and 2nd. Plus full Ohlins and monobloc Brembos to make dipping into that fat torque curve such a joy.

That's the thing with the VFR1200... unlike the ape, it isn't a bike that I care to crack the throttle in 1st and 2nd gear. I enjoy it immensely, but in different ways. To me, a big bird like this is about Grace at Speed. Even if the power were buttery smooth in lower gears, the mass and inertia of the machine still conspire against any funny business down low.

I do miss the ape, but the Speed Triple does a good job of keeping me from trying to ride the VFR1200 in ways Honda didn't intended it for.

i wheelie my VFR12 all day long...no conspiracy here...she does nice ones for a big bike

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