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Route Builder - Please Test!


Guest MotoGoLoco

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Guest MotoGoLoco
Hi All,
I did put a post in asking for permission but nobody's got back to me - I can only assume it's Ok, as I'm not selling anything!
:wink:
So, we've been working on building a new, bike specific route builder over the past few months. The BETA version went live a week or so ago, and we'd very much like some testers and guinea pigs to try it out, break it and generally let us know how you got on with it please.

motorcycle-maps-header.png

Any volunteers?

> MotogoLoco route builder is here

> Feedback / comments link is here


There are a couple of bugs we already know about and are working on fixes for, but we really want 'this worked, this didn't, I liked this, I hated that' stuff from guys who are used to working with the other tools that are out there (Google/MapSource/Basecamp etc).

Over to you!
Cheers
James @ MotoGoLoco
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I might give it a try later, but I'm having a hard time finding a good route from the UK to the US :goofy: Just messing with you.

Cheers!

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Once you trade in that F'blade, we'll talk. :goofy:


Ok, all kidding aside, I don't think I'm smart enough to use this thing. I entered my start and end points, but I can't figure out how to make it create the route. I tried enter, I tried "create route" (main screen just goes black), I tried voice command . . . nothing.

Can anyone help me out? Maybe it's a work computer thing?

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I posted my comment on your 'Feedback' page, but I figured I would post here as well.

"I'd like to see the option to export routes to CoPilot. Right now, I can export the route as a .kml file and then use ITN Converter to convert the .kml file to a .trp file."

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I like it... much easier to use than Base Camp. Will try out the export capabilities...

  1. need a legend key on the map for distances.
  2. Occasionally double enters waypoints and need to be deleted manually
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It just does a direct route. It would be better if it chose "motorcycle friendly" roads instead of the most direct path. I can do that on Google maps.

I know you can choose waypoints, but I just don't see the utility over anything else.

Edited by TNRabbit
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I posted my comment on your 'Feedback' page, but I figured I would post here as well.

"I'd like to see the option to export routes to CoPilot. Right now, I can export the route as a .kml file and then use ITN Converter to convert the .kml file to a .trp file."

I use copilot too with my phone and a sena smh10. Do you know of anywhere that explains how to do custom routes for copilot and how

to convert and import them, I love copilot but that is the one thing that would make it perfect. I had no idea you could do that. For instance all the routes on bestbikingroads.com are useless to me since they are gpx files. Thanks

Edited by njride
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Guest MotoGoLoco

Once you trade in that F'blade, we'll talk. :goofy:

Ok, all kidding aside, I don't think I'm smart enough to use this thing. I entered my start and end points, but I can't figure out how to make it create the route. I tried enter, I tried "create route" (main screen just goes black), I tried voice command . . . nothing.

Can anyone help me out? Maybe it's a work computer thing?

You're not doing anything silly at all - I did the same thing.

When you type in your start point, you'll get a drop-down of places that match your search - pick yours from the list, then do the same for End/POI's.

It's a bit of an annoyance this one (I typed in my Start, hit the 'tab' key, typed in my End and hit Enter and it didn't work).

We're working on something for this one, but thanks for highlighting it!

Mapping seems much more responsive than Google maps...I'm sure it's because of the user load difference...

Is that a good or bad thing in your opinion?

I posted my comment on your 'Feedback' page, but I figured I would post here as well.

"I'd like to see the option to export routes to CoPilot. Right now, I can export the route as a .kml file and then use ITN Converter to convert the .kml file to a .trp file."

Co-pilot's file format is .trp, is that correct? If there's a conversion process that already exists, i.e. to go from KML/GPX into TRP then I can't see why we shouldn't be able to incorporate that as a simple 'Export to CoPilot' option.

Nice request, and noted - thanks!

I like it... much easier to use than Base Camp. Will try out the export capabilities...

  1. need a legend key on the map for distances.
  2. Occasionally double enters waypoints and need to be deleted manually

Thanks - that was very much one of our objectives so nice to hear we're on the right track.

1 - we've got a distance summary on the bottom-right of the screen which appears as soon as you've started creating a route (i.e. once you've got at least a Start & End point created). Is this the sort of thing you're looking for or something like a 1" = 35 miles at this Zoom level" kinda thing?

2 - Noted, thanks - looks like a little bug somewhere, I'll make sure the developers are suitably flogged for it... :wink:

It just does a direct route. It would be better if it chose "motorcycle friendly" roads instead of the most direct path. I can do that on Google maps.

I know you can choose waypoints, but I just don't see the utility over anything else.

This one's cropped up *a lot* and it's a tricky beast to define. Trying to define the 'perfect' biking road is just too subjective to be able to do it anything like accurately. We've surveyed hundreds of different riders over the last year while we've been working on this, and we've yet to come up with an infallible set of results that everyone agrees with, other than 'I hate motorways/highways'.

What someone riding a Harley describes as perfect (stereotypically long straight roads) is very different to what a sportsbike or Viffer rider wants (fast, sweeping bends) compared to an adventure rider who doesn't mind a bit of gravel if the scenery's good. Hence, we've come up with this:
When creating & saving your routes, you have a series of grading options that help describe & define it for others, namely:
The type(s) of bike you think it's suitable for: (Sports/Tourers/Cruisers/Adventures) -&- a set of sliders to help describe it, being:
  • Straight<----->Twisty
  • Urban<----->Rural
  • Low Traffic<----->Busy Traffic
From here, you can at least get a feel for the road/route based on how it's been described, and you can decide whether it sounds like fun (to you) or not.
Oh, and from the 'Routes' section (it's under the 'Show Routes' menu on the right), you can see a load of routes that both 'Loco staff and site users have submitted', view them and... best still - add them to your route with one click.
So, for example, (we're UK based, so I'll apologise in advance for all my examples being from here!) from London to Edinburgh, but see what looks like an awesome route that someone's submitted half way up, you can click it and it'll add straight into your route.
Hope that helps!?

hard for me to test as I cant choose an Australian map to enter some favourite routes, so cant compare it with mapsource, basecamp etc.

It's based on Google Maps API, so it's global. You should be able to view/create routes from anywhere in the world...

I've just tried it now, and created a simple route from Sydney to Brisbane and it worked Ok?

oz-route-test.jpg

I'd be keen to know if you're having problems though - we're aiming to make this as easy to use and intuitive as possible.

Edited by MotoGoLoco
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hay mate you are right, dunno what I was doing wrong before but its working well, quicker than google maps, will try some export to Garmin zumo...err, clicked save, then clicked export, it asked me to save...

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I checked it out and left feedback, which has now disappeared. Or I just can't find it anymore.

Anyway, I like the way it works and the idea in general.

Here is some of the feedback I left:

- Make Avoid Highways/Tolls option available at the level of a leg and not the whole route. This will be very helpful for those who want to plan the whole trip and not just the fun part of it.

- Arrows meant to reorder the way points did not work for me.

- Undo option to easily revert the last route change would be helpful.

Another general observation is that usually riders are protective of their favorite stomping grounds lest they turn into another Deals Gap, so not sure how much actual sharing is going to occur. Hope I'm wrong on this one though.

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I've been a big fan of TYRE for years, and while Sally (the GPS) was still alive, building and loading routes was a snap.

Now that Sally has left this world I'll be reviewing and searching for a new unit.

That said, and with the riding season drawing to a close here, I'll invest a little time to run your program through it's paces.

I quite enjoy route planning, finding all the little bonus roads and avoiding the "can't tell if it's paved or not' roads.

Review to follow - good on ya for taking on the project.

Now, about that bike of yours . . . . :blink:

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I posted my comment on your 'Feedback' page, but I figured I would post here as well.

"I'd like to see the option to export routes to CoPilot. Right now, I can export the route as a .kml file and then use ITN Converter to convert the .kml file to a .trp file."

I use copilot too with my phone and a sena smh10. Do you know of anywhere that explains how to do custom routes for copilot and how

to convert and import them, I love copilot but that is the one thing that would make it perfect. I had no idea you could do that. For instance all the routes on bestbikingroads.com are useless to me since they are gpx files. Thanks

Right now I use ITN Converter. It will pull in Google Maps so you can create whatever route you want (similar to MotoGoLoco's Route Builder). You can then export the route to a CoPilot 8 file (.trp) and save the file to your phone. On my phone (Android) I save the .trp file on my SD card here: com.alk.copilot.namarket.premiumusa\NA\save. Next time you open CoPilot, you should be able to load the route you created.

The ITN Converter is a little clunky to use, but it gets the job done. The Route Builder is pretty slick. I'm going to keep an eye on it and see where it goes.

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... Is this the sort of thing you're looking for or something like a 1" = 35 miles at this Zoom level" kinda thing?

Yes, this is exactly what I'm looking for... I don't mind taking the time and constructing what appears to be a great route on a map using the waypoints or dragging the route line, but as I zoom in and out it helps to know what the scale is to put things in perspective. Thanks...

FWIW... I plotted out a 430 mile day trip through unknown (to me) territory much quicker than other apps I've used. The computer interface side seems well done... now to go out and test the accuracy of the mapping!

:tour:

PS: Love the terrain view for evaluating potential new roads to try!

New Issue:

  1. Unable to print turn by turn directions.
  • Nice option would be to export to a table instead of print. I like to have line by line directions for roads, turns (L/R), headings with distances to be traveled before next turn. I keep this in my map window on my tank bag. I usually export these to Excel and edit for brevity.

I.e.

L (MO-94) W => 34 miles

R (MO-D) N => 5 miles

It's not fancy, but it is functional and clear for quick glances while riding... if you could export or print something like that you would have something unique... and I would be a very happy camper!

Edited by Rush2112
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Guest MotoGoLoco

Here is some of the feedback I left:

- Make Avoid Highways/Tolls option available at the level of a leg and not the whole route. This will be very helpful for those who want to plan the whole trip and not just the fun part of it.

That's a nice idea, not sure how it'd work from a programming perspective, but I like your thinking

- Arrows meant to reorder the way points did not work for me.

Yeah, you're by no means the first person that's mentioned this one, they're click and drag'able as opposed to just click - we've tried a few different arrows / icons here but still haven't quite cracked the right one yet. Thanks for pointing it out, we need a fix on this one. Out of curiosity, what sort of thing would you think 'I can drag that' if you saw it?

- Undo option to easily revert the last route change would be helpful.

Yeah, just now you have to delete the previous / offending POI but a simple undo button would be handy.

Thank you!!


... Is this the sort of thing you're looking for or something like a 1" = 35 miles at this Zoom level" kinda thing?

Yes, this is exactly what I'm looking for... I don't mind taking the time and constructing what appears to be a great route on a map using the waypoints or dragging the route line, but as I zoom in and out it helps to know what the scale is to put things in perspective. Thanks...

No worries - I can see how that would be useful - added to the list!

FWIW... I plotted out a 430 mile day trip through unknown (to me) territory much quicker than other apps I've used. The computer interface side seems well done... now to go out and test the accuracy of the mapping!

:tour:

Thanks - the accuracy will be just as good as Google Maps, as that's where all the data for ours comes from.

PS: Love the terrain view for evaluating potential new roads to try!

Ha - Dave (our MD) will be very pleased to hear that - he's the one who pushed for that and it looks like he was right (dammit!! :wink: )

New Issue:

  1. Unable to print turn by turn directions.

Noted, thanks

  • Nice option would be to export to a table instead of print. I like to have line by line directions for roads, turns (L/R), headings with distances to be traveled before next turn. I keep this in my map window on my tank bag. I usually export these to Excel and edit for brevity.

I.e.

L (MO-94) W => 34 miles

R (MO-D) N => 5 miles

It's not fancy, but it is functional and clear for quick glances while riding... if you could export or print something like that you would have something unique... and I would be a very happy camper!

Ah, yes - I can see where you're going with that - that's a really nice, clean and simple way of marking out a route and, I have to admit, a LOT easier to follow at a glance than a big full on list. Excellent idea, and noted - thank you!

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- Arrows meant to reorder the way points did not work for me.

Yeah, you're by no means the first person that's mentioned this one, they're click and drag'able as opposed to just click - we've tried a few different arrows / icons here but still haven't quite cracked the right one yet. Thanks for pointing it out, we need a fix on this one. Out of curiosity, what sort of thing would you think 'I can drag that' if you saw it?

I.e.

L (MO-94) W => 34 miles

R (MO-D) N => 5 miles

It's not fancy, but it is functional and clear for quick glances while riding... if you could export or print something like that you would have something unique... and I would be a very happy camper!

Ah, yes - I can see where you're going with that - that's a really nice, clean and simple way of marking out a route and, I have to admit, a LOT easier to follow at a glance than a big full on list. Excellent idea, and noted - thank you!

On point number 1, when I see the cursor with 4 arrows pointing away from each other I think I can drag that.

On the printout for directions, I like that but will there be any text to speech options for those connected via blue tooth.

I have been working on (what I feel) are some patentable ideas for motorcycle specific routing but have yet to find anyone at Garmin that cares enough to bump me up to someone who can talk about specifics. They just say leave it in your comments and we will look at it eventually.

I am now doubting that anyone at Garmin rides for pleasure, perhaps they commute on motorcycles (in the summer in Kansas City - not the fall, winter or spring?) but I feel that the concept of going out to ride a sporting motorcycle for the fun of riding a sporting motorcycle is a foreign concept to them.

I will play with some route layouts and provide more useful feedback in the coming weeks.

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Here is some of the feedback I left:

- Make Avoid Highways/Tolls option available at the level of a leg and not the whole route. This will be very helpful for those who want to plan the whole trip and not just the fun part of it.

That's a nice idea, not sure how it'd work from a programming perspective, but I like your thinking

- Arrows meant to reorder the way points did not work for me.

Yeah, you're by no means the first person that's mentioned this one, they're click and drag'able as opposed to just click - we've tried a few different arrows / icons here but still haven't quite cracked the right one yet. Thanks for pointing it out, we need a fix on this one. Out of curiosity, what sort of thing would you think 'I can drag that' if you saw it?

- Undo option to easily revert the last route change would be helpful.

Yeah, just now you have to delete the previous / offending POI but a simple undo button would be handy.

Thank you!!

Regarding arrows - I would have drag and drop circular objects, e.g.dots. If you want to get fancy, then a solid dot surrounded by a circle. When you drag it, a dot appears to shift in the opposite direction relative to the circle and to the direction of drag. Not sure if it makes sense... I saw this type of object somewhere before and it was pretty cool. Maybe you can find it in the open source world.

One other suggestion that may have been lost is to grab location from the incoming browser session and center the map accordingly.

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I just played with it to recreate a route I took home from Franklin, NC on Saturday and then tried to build a loop ride that we normally take on VFR meets.

A few observations:

1. after you exceed 4 or 5 via points the interface gets really clunky, I had to wait an incredibly long time for the program to digest what was being asked of it.

2. if you know your start point and end point in a generic sense (as your earlier example - London to Glasgow IIRC) then later add a specific address to either end of your already created route, it seems to play havoc with the program as well. For example I put in Franklin, NC to Peachtree City, GA and later - once I saw map took me to city center of PTC - I plugged in the actual address of the termination point it became unwieldy. It did not want me to delete the former termination point, once it finished throwing it little fit and allowed the termination to be deleted and eh last way point to be destination it resized the map up and down 12-15 times...like it was mocking me with bug eyes. :blink: lol

3. I also tried to edit to original destination by placing the cursor in the destination text box and typing the address in front of the destination city. it did not appreciate this either.

4. In the middle my route and adding the 11 or so via points to get me routed through my preferred area, when the interface became nonresponsive, I clicked on the "mapping" tab at the top thinking that perhaps there were some settings here that I could adjust and make the map more responsive. I bet you are already laughing because that just erased 20 minutes of work to get to the point where I had invested enough time to make the user interface clunky. I see now that the only settings per se are avoid highways - avoid tolls - miles - km below the route building screen in plain view and you may not want to clutter your main screen but perhaps a redundant tab with settings that would not erase your work but just bring open a drop down window or a quick menu box that allows you to return to route building without erasing all of your efforts would be handy.

5. How do you build a loop? Say you are meeting with group of riders for a week and want to build several loops out and back with a common start and stop point for each route. I tried but it seems to select one of my via points when building such a route as either the start point or the destination...what did do wrong here?

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Guest MotoGoLoco

Just a quick note to say thanks guys - you've all been a massive help on this, and I've gathered a load of really useful feedback - every bit of which hugely appreciated.

Please keep any more ideas or bugs coming in as/when you think of / spot them - they all help

Cheers all!

James @ MotoGoLoco

Edited by MotoGoLoco
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  • 7 months later...

Thanks for posting this. It works just fine for me - Mac, Safari 7.0.3. I'm particularly happy to see that it exports to my Garmin Zumo 550 since Google removed this feature this year. I've exported routes to the GPS and it works great. Is this going to be a paid service?

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I tried for a trip I'm taking in July and ended up with a waypoint that was unexpected and not on the route. For example, my route goes from Lincoln, NE to Fremont, NE and goes up to South Sioux City all on US Highway 77. At no point can you reach Omaha on this route. Also have a reference to Baker-Annapolis, instead of Minneapolis when approaching the Minneapolis-St.Paul, MN area. The final destination for this route is International Falls, MN for the CMA "No Boarders" Rally.

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I love it. On a side note, this would be even more awesome if there were a smartphone app for it, along with adding navigation functionality. I recommend going Android first so I can use it. :fing02:

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  • 5 months later...
Guest MotoGoLoco
Afternoon dudes & dudettes,


Well, that's been a quick 12 months! After several rounds of scrutinous testing and tweaking, we recently launched the latest update to MotoGoLoco Maps - our free journey planning tool and online routes library.


MGL-Route-Creator-V3-750px.jpg


I could fill a thread up listing everything we've added, changed, tweaked, twiddled and removed (if you're really interested, I did just that in this blog post), but ultimately the aim of the game was to make things easier, smoother and less clunky. We think we've nailed it, and so far the feedback has been fantastically positive.


If anyone here fancies giving it a wee go and letting me know your thoughts, I'd be eternally and continually grateful as ever. Much of what's been worked on so far came about via feedback from folks on bike forums - including this one - so I hope you believe me when I promise that we really are listening.


Hope you like it!


Cheers & all the best,

James M

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