Member Contributer Duc2V4 Posted September 14, 2013 Member Contributer Share Posted September 14, 2013 Well last Thursday while on my way to an appointment, my speedometer started acting goofy. (see this post: http://www.vfrdiscussion.com/forum/index.php/topic/75943-todays-conversation-with-myself/ ) Long story short, I do not believe that it is the nylon nut that connects the sprocket bolt to the sensor itself, as upon inspection it not only looked fine, it appears to be holding against the sprocket bolt just fine, however I do suspect it to be the sensor unit itself. According to the service manual, there are three leads on the connector, black (+12v), Green (-/Gnd), Pink (Sensor +5v). With the ignition on, there should be 12v on the black and green leads, which it does, and that when you spin the wheel (i.e. sensor) the pink lead should pulse +5v. Well no matter if the sensor is sitting idle or spinning I get at least 10+ volts on the pink lead. I also tried using a drill to turn the sensor i.e. emulate a spinning sprocket, but still no speedometer reading. I have also tried doing an "offline" test with a 12v power supply and a meter, and I get the same results, I always get voltage on the pink lead regardless of the sensor moving or not. Do you think my diagnosis correct? The only other test that the manual calls for is taking a reading at the 20 pin connector behind the dash, I can also test this but today's available time is limited. Has anyone suffered from a bad sensor? Or should I be looking for other Here's where I connected to the 12 volt leads... ...and this is the voltage reading. Here is where I connected to the sensor "pulse" leads...(sorry it's a little blurry) Here is the voltage I get whether the sensor is idle or spinning. Here's a picture of the backside of the sensor (sprocket side) ...and one of the nylon nut as it sits on the sprocket. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Baileyrock Posted September 14, 2013 Share Posted September 14, 2013 Have you looked at the nut side of the nylon drive nut, that is usually where the issue is??? I'm not sure how the voltage side is suppose to work, but it should vary the voltage output signal? Lower or higher I have no clue??? Is there a trouble shooting guide in the shop manual? BR Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Member Contributer Duc2V4 Posted September 14, 2013 Author Member Contributer Share Posted September 14, 2013 Have you looked at the nut side of the nylon drive nut, that is usually where the issue is??? I'm not sure how the voltage side is suppose to work, but it should vary the voltage output signal? Lower or higher I have no clue??? Is there a trouble shooting guide in the shop manual? BR The nut side looked almost new and the service manual is what I used to get the locations for the voltage testing points. I would have to assume that while sensor was still connected to the bike, spinning the sensor with a drill would have given me some speed indication. Would you agree? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
superfunkomatic Posted September 15, 2013 Share Posted September 15, 2013 My bike started showing the erratic speedo behavior as my regulator/rectifier packed it in. I thought it might be the speedo sensor too but checking your power system and charge to the battery might be worthwhile. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
spud786 Posted September 15, 2013 Share Posted September 15, 2013 To see the full pulsing, you just barely turn the sensor, spinning with a drill , you probbaly would not see it, it happens so fast. But yeah, the pink wire should be 5v. Disconnect at that coonnector in the pictures, and see if you have 5 v to ground from the source. If you do and only with sppeed sensor connected you get ten volt on the pink wire, then it may be the sppeed sensor. BTW that connector is the Newest waterproof type, it wont fit on earier 6th gens, so if you do order a sensor, you need the newest revision which has the right connector. It sounds like your seeing 10 v between the pink and green wire and no pulsing at all, which Id agree thats your issue. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Member Contributer Duc2V4 Posted September 15, 2013 Author Member Contributer Share Posted September 15, 2013 To see the full pulsing, you just barely turn the sensor, spinning with a drill , you probbaly would not see it, it happens so fast. But yeah, the pink wire should be 5v. Disconnect at that coonnector in the pictures, and see if you have 5 v to ground from the source. If you do and only with sppeed sensor connected you get ten volt on the pink wire, then it may be the sppeed sensor. BTW that connector is the Newest waterproof type, it wont fit on earier 6th gens, so if you do order a sensor, you need the newest revision which has the right connector. It sounds like your seeing 10 v between the pink and green wire and no pulsing at all, which Id agree thats your issue. I took the sensor off and placed a 12v power supply on the black/green leads and checked it again, the pink and green leads always gives me 10v. When I spun it with the drill it was at a very low speed, even tried it by hand for giggles, always the same 10v.My bike started showing the erratic speedo behavior as my regulator/rectifier packed it in. I thought it might be the speedo sensor too but checking your power system and charge to the battery might be worthwhile. I did a quick check on the battery, 12.8 at idle and 14.4 at 5k RPM, if I remember correctly. I'll more than likely do a full check tomorrow just to make sure, but based on what I found with the sensor voltage on the pulse leads, it really looks like its a bad sensor. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
spud786 Posted September 15, 2013 Share Posted September 15, 2013 Why not check from the bike, rather than a 12 volt source, the 5 volts has to be rectified from 12volts, the bike does not have to be running, just the key on. 5 volts is supplied to the sensor, if you dont have that, the there's an issue prior to the sensor. I have trouble shooted that area, I dont recall the speed sensor recieving 10v and the speed sensor splitting it.. My case was a dirty contact inside that waterproff connector pictured in the thread, I was recieving 5 v but it was not pulsing, Of course my connector is from an 06 model which is a completely differnt connector(doesnt fit the newer models) and not water proof. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Member Contributer Duc2V4 Posted September 15, 2013 Author Member Contributer Share Posted September 15, 2013 Why not check from the bike, rather than a 12 volt source, the 5 volts has to be rectified from 12volts, the bike does not have to be running, just the key on. 5 volts is supplied to the sensor, if you dont have that, the there's an issue prior to the sensor. I did check on the bike, that's where the pictures came from. That was my first test. When spinning the wheel yielded nothing, that's when I did the test with the drill, again, real slow speed spins and even twisted the sensor by hand. To rule out an issue with the wiring above the sensor connection, i.e. Feedback voltage from the wiring harness, I then used a 12v power supply off the bike to the two main power leads (black/green). Today I should have more time so I'll test other things as well, stator/RnR, etc. Based on the Honda service manual, the pink/green leads should be a 0-5v pulse when the sensor spins, again mine show a constant 10v, which doesn't seem right. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
spud786 Posted September 15, 2013 Share Posted September 15, 2013 In my case I had the supplied voltages, just no pulsing, so I thought the sensor was at fault, but it was bad connection preventing the pulsing. But yeah, the pulsing drops from 5v to zero on green and pink, by just barley turning the sensor, if working correctly. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Member Contributer Duc2V4 Posted September 15, 2013 Author Member Contributer Share Posted September 15, 2013 In my case I had the supplied voltages, just no pulsing, so I thought the sensor was at fault, but it was bad connection preventing the pulsing. But yeah, the pulsing drops from 5v to zero on green and pink, by just barley turning the sensor, if working correctly.So when you measured on the bike, the voltage at the pink/green leads were 0v at the sensor side of the connector at idle and that when turning the sensor you had a 5v pulse (again at the sensor side) but not on the wire harness side? That makes sense that it was the connection. Do you know if there is any voltage on the wire harness side, I would imagine that there is none and this is for the "feedback" lead (pink) that turns the pulses into MPH.We've just finished breakfast and we need to walk the dog (not a metaphor, we really have a dog) and then I'll be going back at it. I'm going to measure the leads on the wire harness side first thing to see if there is any voltage there. Then I'll do the stator/RnR testing just for good measure. Thanks all for the input! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Member Contributer Duc2V4 Posted September 15, 2013 Author Member Contributer Share Posted September 15, 2013 Looks like all roads lead to Rome...After testing Stator and "Rectum Fryer", it still points to the speed sensor as the issue. At least according to the Honda service manual trouble shooting guide. So the biggest question is, Will riding without the speedometer sensor hurt anything? Apart from not knowing how fast I'm going and and the odometer being off by a few miles plus an FI warning light constantly lit up, can anyone see any reason not to ride without the sensor? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
spud786 Posted September 15, 2013 Share Posted September 15, 2013 No problem that I know of, as long as the bike runs and goes forward. When mine failed and my read out was blank there was no rideability issue. Generally with most electronics that 5 volt is supplied from the circuit board and the sensor just switches the voltage (high and low). It would be nice if someone disconnected there speedo sensor and checked the voltages for you if they already had the left fairing off, and see if they get 10 or 5 volt on pink to green, might save you the $100. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Member Contributer Duc2V4 Posted September 15, 2013 Author Member Contributer Share Posted September 15, 2013 No problem that I know of, as long as the bike runs and goes forward. When mine failed and my read out was blank there was no rideability issue. Generally with most electronics that 5 volt is supplied from the circuit board and the sensor just switches the voltage (high and low). It would be nice if someone disconnected there speedo sensor and checked the voltages for you if they already had the left fairing off, and see if they get 10 or 5 volt on pink to green, might save you the $100. Correct on the 5v from the dash board side, I measured that and also checked continuity and all connections for good measure. Gonna place my Partzilla order tonight and hopefully I'll have the sensor by end of the week. In the mean time, I'll probably ride the '01 to work instead, most of this week is just meetings so I don't gear any of my gear I put in the 6 Gen top case. Thanks for your participation in my trouble shooting. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Member Contributer Duc2V4 Posted September 28, 2013 Author Member Contributer Share Posted September 28, 2013 Woo Hoo! All fixed. It was the sensor itself and not the nylon nut. Although I do now have a spare nylon nut, as the sensor came with the nut already attached but when I ordered it I also grabbed the nylon nut thinking I had to order the two pieces separately. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Member Contributer MaxSwell Posted September 28, 2013 Member Contributer Share Posted September 28, 2013 Woo Hoo! All fixed. It was the sensor itself and not the nylon nut. Although I do now have a spare nylon nut, as the sensor came with the nut already attached but when I ordered it I also grabbed the nylon nut thinking I had to order the two pieces separately. BTW. Mason City Honda beats Partzilla by significant $. And if you will allow a rant against Partzilla: They royally bungled several orders from me. Charged my credit card for parts I returned, cancelled a couple of orders (they use some propritary credit checking that disqualified me on my second and some subsequent orders after successfully fulfilling a $1500 order for cowls) then, after I had ordered the cancelled parts from Mason City they shipped the cancelled backordered parts and charged my card. This started in Feb. 2013 and was finally cleared up in Aug., all in my favor. They had to refund $400 to me in the end. And contacting them could involve a on-hold wait of up to a half hour just to get an low lever order-taking clerk (they were as nice, but powerless). It took months to speak to an actual decision making supervisor. Emails were answered with a canned automated routine and were answered by an actual human about one out of eight times. Thanks for the vent. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Member Contributer Rush2112 Posted March 9, 2015 Member Contributer Share Posted March 9, 2015 Woo Hoo! All fixed. It was the sensor itself and not the nylon nut. Although I do now have a spare nylon nut, as the sensor came with the nut already attached but when I ordered it I also grabbed the nylon nut thinking I had to order the two pieces separately. Does anyone have the nylon nut part number? I can't find it on Ron Ayers Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Member Contributer Switchblade Posted March 9, 2015 Member Contributer Share Posted March 9, 2015 Woo Hoo! All fixed. It was the sensor itself and not the nylon nut. Although I do now have a spare nylon nut, as the sensor came with the nut already attached but when I ordered it I also grabbed the nylon nut thinking I had to order the two pieces separately. Does anyone have the nylon nut part number? I can't find it on Ron Ayers 10 JOINT, SPEEDOMETER44808-MR7-013 $7.6 http://www.partzilla.com/parts/search/Honda/Motorcycle/2005/VFR800+AC/SPEEDOMETER/parts.html $6.44 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Member Contributer Duc2V4 Posted March 9, 2015 Author Member Contributer Share Posted March 9, 2015 Woo Hoo! All fixed. It was the sensor itself and not the nylon nut. Although I do now have a spare nylon nut, as the sensor came with the nut already attached but when I ordered it I also grabbed the nylon nut thinking I had to order the two pieces separately. Does anyone have the nylon nut part number? I can't find it on Ron Ayers If all you're looking for is the nylon nut, I have one, just pay for postage, if it's not too late... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Member Contributer Rush2112 Posted March 10, 2015 Member Contributer Share Posted March 10, 2015 Woo Hoo! All fixed. It was the sensor itself and not the nylon nut. Although I do now have a spare nylon nut, as the sensor came with the nut already attached but when I ordered it I also grabbed the nylon nut thinking I had to order the two pieces separately. Does anyone have the nylon nut part number? I can't find it on Ron Ayers If all you're looking for is the nylon nut, I have one, just pay for postage, if it's not too late... You ROCK Man! Thank you for the offer, I placed an order for a bunch of little things from Ron Ayers and this was added... thanks again for the generosity! save your spare nut in case you bust one... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LosLobos Posted August 8, 2017 Share Posted August 8, 2017 Could someone advise as to the difficulty of changing the nylon nut - looks to be a very tight press fit in the sensor shaft ?? Probably easier to just change out the whole unit ? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Member Contributer Duc2V4 Posted August 8, 2017 Author Member Contributer Share Posted August 8, 2017 5 hours ago, LosLobos said: Could someone advise as to the difficulty of changing the nylon nut - looks to be a very tight press fit in the sensor shaft ?? Probably easier to just change out the whole unit ? Yes, very easy but it requires taking off the sprocket cover, which on the 5/6 gens holds the clutch slave as well. All you'll really need is an 8mm socket and a clamp to keep the clutch slave piston from slowly popping out. Here's what I did when changing out the sprocket recently. I removed the clutch slave first, used the clamp to hold the piston in and then took off the sprocket cover. Correction, this is to replace the sprocket, not the nylon nut. All you'll need is the 8mm socket and remove the speedometer sensor, just two bolts. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Member Contributer Terry Posted August 8, 2017 Member Contributer Share Posted August 8, 2017 The nylon coupler is just a press fit on the shaft; I don't recall using anything more than a screwdriver to prise the old one up/off, and pushing the new one on by hand. If you needed to, you could dip the coupler in a cup of hot water to make it a little more pliable but I did not need to do that. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Member Contributer JZH Posted August 9, 2017 Member Contributer Share Posted August 9, 2017 FYI, I recently bought one of the aluminium speedometer joints sold on eBay out of Hong Kong and, whilst it is a very nice reproduction, it is also just slightly too small to fit onto the new OEM sprocket bolt I also bought. Kind of annoying... Ciao, Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LosLobos Posted August 11, 2017 Share Posted August 11, 2017 Thanx guys for the responses ... will just replace the nut. As an aside, it's kinda worrying that looking at the parts diagrams for the 5th gen, so many have apparently become unobtainium as in "Part Obsolete" ... oh well. So it goes. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Member Contributer Duc2V4 Posted August 12, 2017 Author Member Contributer Share Posted August 12, 2017 2 hours ago, LosLobos said: Thanx guys for the responses ... will just replace the nut. As an aside, it's kinda worrying that looking at the parts diagrams for the 5th gen, so many have apparently become unobtainium as in "Part Obsolete" ... oh well. So it goes. The sprocket sensor nut is the same part for the 6 Gen if I'm not mistaken. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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