Member Contributer VFRBulldawg Posted March 8, 2012 Member Contributer Share Posted March 8, 2012 Hey everyone. I have a 2003 VFR with ABS. I recently replaced all my brake lines with the full 13 line Galfer SS brake line kit. I have the Harbor Freight pneumatically powered vacuum pump. I have followed the directions in the Honda Service Manual and my Haynes Manual. I have bleed the system 3 times and I still have a soft front lever. After I finish and I get good bleeds from all the bleed valves I can pump and pump the front lever but it stays soft and goes all the way to the bar every time. I have no issues with the rear pedal it feels good. I also have no pressure build up in the ABS master cylinder on the front left caliper. I can manually pump it and it never firms up. What I have been doing is to use the vacuum pump to pull fluid into the system and then finish off the bleed by manually pumping the front lever, rear pedal, and the ABS cylinder. When I use the vacuum pump I can never get any fluid to come out of the PVC bleeder. I can only get fluid to come out of that bleeder when using the rear pedal. I can't seem to get any fluid to move anywhere when I pump the ABS cylinder. When I pump the ABS cylinder the fluid levels in the reservoir never move and nothing comes out the PCV bleeder. I am at my wits end. I thought if anything was going to be soft it would be the rear brake pedal and not the front brake lever. Can anybody offer me advice? I have read several threads on the subject of brake bleeding and no one seems to be having my problem unless there is something they did wrong that I have been doing right. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Veefer800Canuck Posted March 8, 2012 Share Posted March 8, 2012 When you are pumping the front lever, cock the handlebars to the left so the master cylinder is on an angle and the banjo bolts are downhill. Then pump the lever only partway and release, you should see air bubbles coming out of the return hole, at the bottom of the master cylinder. That hole is partly covered by a little circular piece of thin steel, a sort of deflector plate almost. Keep doing that until there are no more bubbles, then bleed downward towards the calipers as normal. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Member Contributer RollinAgain Posted March 8, 2012 Member Contributer Share Posted March 8, 2012 You obviously have not had enough beer so drink two tall boys and try again. I also find it helpful to smear a little vaseline around the bleed tube after putting it on the bleed nipple to prevent any additional air from entering the system. Rollin Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Member Contributer Duc2V4 Posted March 8, 2012 Member Contributer Share Posted March 8, 2012 I had a similar problem with the Mity-Vac and that the seal on the catch container wasn't tight, so essentially there was no vacuum being created by the pump, or it wouldn't hold the vacuum pressure for long. Essentially the resevoir was never getting any lower, even after several pumps of the lever. After I noticed the poor seal, I was able to press down on the lid and tighten the seal really good and then the unit started to work. I was able to quickly finish the clucth bleed that I was doing. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted March 8, 2012 Share Posted March 8, 2012 Well, I just had a major bout with my brakes in the last couple of weeks....so this is fresh in my mind. Granted, I don't have ABS, but the procedure is the same and I had the same issues. I had a hell of a time trying to bleed the front line of air or even get the front MC to prime. Even with the bars cocked all the way left and the MC level, I still couldn't get it to firm up. I ended up having to carefully (with the MC cover off) remove the two bolts that hold the MC to the bars and tilt it downward to let the air bubbles escape (lever end up slightly). Working the brake lever carefully while tilting it slightly allowed the air bubbles to escape..... this got the MC primed very quickly and I was then able to bleed it manually and get it totally firmed up. I never have good luck using a vacuum bleeder, so I usually start with it to suck the fluid out and then bleed manually (i.e. loosen the valve, pump, tighten the valve, release....repeat). I always get good results doing it the old fashioned way and on a motorcycle it's easy to do one-man. I also had the same issue on the PCV. I did get fluid from mine using the vacuum bleeder, but it bleeds slowly. I used the manual methed (foot pedal) and got it to bleed o.k....took a while though. To really bleed it you have to pump the pedal hard with your foot while loosening/tightening the valve by hand....takes a bit of coordination but is doable. It's hard to exert the pressure needed to pump the fluid through that circuit with your hand....use your foot. Good luck. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Member Contributer VFRBulldawg Posted March 8, 2012 Author Member Contributer Share Posted March 8, 2012 I'm getting good bleeds at all the bleed valves. Several manual pumps by hand and absolutely no air bubbles and the front lever and ABS MC is still soft. I've bled brakes before on other vehicles and never had this problem. The vacuum pump works well on pulling fluid through every other bleed valve but the PCV. I used it to the get the fluid in the lines and then pumped the MC's to finish the bleed. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted March 12, 2012 Share Posted March 12, 2012 Just realized that the front brake lever was getting soft and towards end of adjuster travel. I simply turned handlebars to the left, put on some gloves, and squeezed the right caliper as much as I could until it got loose. This did firm up brake lever about 80%. I had swapped out brake fluid last season so perhaps there was a stray bubble lurking that I pushed back into MC. Sometimes the easy things work! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Member Contributer auggius Posted March 13, 2012 Member Contributer Share Posted March 13, 2012 I don't know if reverse bleeding works with ABS or linked brakes but it's a very simple and effective technique. Rather than pushing the fluid top to bottom you push the fluid up through the system from the bleed nipple to the reservoir. Air bubbles naturally want to rise so you're not fighting against them. This technique was described in my Clymer manual so it may be in the 6th gen version manual too if it's doable. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dae Posted March 13, 2012 Share Posted March 13, 2012 After bleeding with mighty vac had spongy brakes, so I zipped tied the brake lever to the handle bar and moved the handle bar to the max in each direction. Also tapped the master cylinder thinking it will free up any bubbles in the hose or bottom of the master cylinder. Now my brakes have a solid feeling. You might want to leave the zip tie overnight, this should lift most of the air to the top. Next time I service my brakes, I will use reverse bleed, using a syringe. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AlanOon Posted August 26, 2013 Share Posted August 26, 2013 Have anyone done reverse bleeding? It is doable for VFR800 ABS? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Member Contributer AnikMankar Posted August 26, 2013 Member Contributer Share Posted August 26, 2013 move to speedbleeders - they work like a charm. I also use a syringe along with that. the levers are rock hard Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted October 8, 2013 Share Posted October 8, 2013 Sorry to revive an older thread. I didn't want to start a new thread with similar issues. I bled my clutch using a Mityvac + pumping the clutch lever. Now the clutch feel fine, but this morning during my commute my brake lever is feeling really soft. There's no braking until the very end of lever travel. My question is, will bleeding the clutch somehow introduce air into the brake system? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
V4 Rosso Posted October 8, 2013 Share Posted October 8, 2013 No, those are two seperate systems. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted October 8, 2013 Share Posted October 8, 2013 No, those are two seperate systems. I thought so. Maybe it's a separate issue and the timing is just a coincident. Pumping the brake lever firms up the lever, but it will be soft again later. Maybe it's time to bleed the brakes and see. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Member Contributer Duc2V4 Posted October 8, 2013 Member Contributer Share Posted October 8, 2013 No, those are two seperate systems. I thought so. Maybe it's a separate issue and the timing is just a coincident. Pumping the brake lever firms up the lever, but it will be soft again later. Maybe it's time to bleed the brakes and see. Definitely time...Which Generation VFR800 do you have? The fronts on the 5/6 Gen are pretty close to the same, it's when you get to the linked braking side of things that the bleed points change a little. You should be able to just bleed the front without needing to worry about the rear right away, but it wouldn't be a bad idea to do them all at once. I would also recommend getting speed bleeder nipples installed as they make short work of the bleeding process. There are a few post on how to bleed the linked brakes on the forum so you shouldn't have any trouble with the process. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted October 10, 2013 Share Posted October 10, 2013 No, those are two seperate systems. I thought so. Maybe it's a separate issue and the timing is just a coincident. Pumping the brake lever firms up the lever, but it will be soft again later. Maybe it's time to bleed the brakes and see. Definitely time...Which Generation VFR800 do you have? The fronts on the 5/6 Gen are pretty close to the same, it's when you get to the linked braking side of things that the bleed points change a little. You should be able to just bleed the front without needing to worry about the rear right away, but it wouldn't be a bad idea to do them all at once. I would also recommend getting speed bleeder nipples installed as they make short work of the bleeding process. There are a few post on how to bleed the linked brakes on the forum so you shouldn't have any trouble with the process. Bled the fronts and zip tied the brake lever to the grip overnight. Feels pretty good in the morning commute. I can see a bubble in the master cylinder, but it seems to be not affecting anything. Thanks for the tips everyone! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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