Just Installed a Compufire Series Regulator

[Misspent Youth]

I'm hoping you're on the right track w/the series regulator, though it sounds like the Compufire's off my list given your experience.

Re: ZRX (and not to derail your thread - just mentioned it as an example of a bike w/different charging system), rattle at idle is typically a cam chain whose auto-tensioner is just about to go to the next notch of adjustment. Should do it on its own, or you can remove and reinstall to correct adjustment in a couple of minutes. The cam chain does wear out about 50K miles. The ZRX "adjustable" susp is cheaply done and, in my opinion, not as effective as the VFR's. Too much compression damping, almost no rebound, and crude damping in between, not to mention lack of rising rate rear shock with the two fixed shocks. Fixable at a price. What I really want is the ZRX motor in the VFR.

I'm hoping the getting rid of the shunt regulator is going to fix most of the issues. The rest is regular checks and cleaning of connections.

I used to have a '04 ZRX (silver) and thou the charging system was trouble free, it did rattle at idle which drove me crazy. Sometimes it was just a slight rattle, at others, it was down right load.

The one thing I could never figure is why the ZRX, which is more of a 'standard' then a 'sport' has compression and rebound adjustments, front and rear, while the VFR has none?

[coderighter]

I'm hoping you're on the right track w/the series regulator, though it sounds like the Compufire's off my list given your experience.

Re: ZRX (and not to derail your thread - just mentioned it as an example of a bike w/different charging system), rattle at idle is typically a cam chain whose auto-tensioner is just about to go to the next notch of adjustment. Should do it on its own, or you can remove and reinstall to correct adjustment in a couple of minutes. The cam chain does wear out about 50K miles. The ZRX "adjustable" susp is cheaply done and, in my opinion, not as effective as the VFR's. Too much compression damping, almost no rebound, and crude damping in between, not to mention lack of rising rate rear shock with the two fixed shocks. Fixable at a price. What I really want is the ZRX motor in the VFR.

I'm hoping the getting rid of the shunt regulator is going to fix most of the issues. The rest is regular checks and cleaning of connections.

I used to have a '04 ZRX (silver) and thou the charging system was trouble free, it did rattle at idle which drove me crazy. Sometimes it was just a slight rattle, at others, it was down right load.

The one thing I could never figure is why the ZRX, which is more of a 'standard' then a 'sport' has compression and rebound adjustments, front and rear, while the VFR has none?

Ya, I tried the tensioner. I even tried replacing the auto with a fixed type. When I sold it, i think I had 23k or so on it. Maybe just unlucky. I do, however, miss that massive mid range torque the ZRX has on tap.

[Guest]

Has anyone tried the SH775 on a VFR?

[Switchblade]

You mean that one yeh I have one on my right now . So far so good ..

[Guest]

Yep. That one. My R/R is on the end of its life, got a flat battery few times in the end of last season. Budget is really tight at the moment so I am looking for a cheap but reliable replacement. I can do soldering and wiring work so I don't need a plug and play one. The SH775 seems a bit cheaper than FH020 so if it suits I might try that one.

edit:
Some Triumph guys say that its no good for high rpm bikes.

It does NOT appear to be suited for the high rpm 4-cylinder Triumph 600-4's (TT600, Speed4, Daytona 600/650) - at high rpm it loses regulation on those bikes.

[Switchblade]

Yep. That one. My R/R is on the end of its life, got a flat battery few times in the end of last season. Budget is really tight at the moment so I am looking for a cheap but reliable replacement. I can do soldering and wiring work so I don't need a plug and play one. The SH775 seems a bit cheaper than FH020 so if it suits I might try that one.

edit:

Some Triumph guys say that its no good for high rpm bikes.

It does NOT appear to be suited for the high rpm 4-cylinder Triumph 600-4's (TT600, Speed4, Daytona 600/650) - at high rpm it loses regulation on those bikes.

Hmmmmm hope not mines been installed since June ....

[Guest]

Found this thread. http://www.triumphrat.net/triumph-supersports/338041-not-fully-charging-2.html Some guys say that at 10k rpm the regulator fails and the voltage rises to 17-18 volts. Have you checked it on your bike? If not, can you do it?

[Switchblade]

Found this thread. http://www.triumphrat.net/triumph-supersports/338041-not-fully-charging-2.html Some guys say that at 10k rpm the regulator fails and the voltage rises to 17-18 volts. Have you checked it on your bike? If not, can you do it?

My bike has a voltmeter on board and I have not seen any of the voltage reading there reporting . I have seen a drop of voltage at 80mph(88 at the speedometer) with the high beams on a 200 milivolt voltage drop.

it goes from a reading of 14.20Vdc down to 14.00Vdc .

But I am going to do some research and see if this is a common problem or just one person thing ..

P.S. illegal thanks for posting the link .

This guy makes alot of common sense ;

Replaced my FH012AA with a Series Type Regulator.

Why?

As the title says I recently replaced the Shindengen FH012AA regulator on my ’06 Sprint ST with a series type regulator. The aim is to reduce the amount of work the stator does and thereby increase reliability.

My charging system is performing well but in the back of my mind was a concern about signs of heat I saw on the stator windings when I removed the cover a while back. Checks on stator resistance and output revealed no issues. All the same, I wondered if there would be any benefit replacing the stator. During discussion with DEcosse he said that darkening of the resin on the coil windings is typical on these bikes and he did not see any benefit in replacing the stator while my charging system was working fine. Although DEcosse didn’t see a need to replace anything he did suggest that, if stator heat and reliability were my concern, then a series regulator would be a better use of the money.

What?

In his excellent charging diagnostics thread DEcosse highlighted the Compu-Fire 55402 Series Regulator. In that post he says, in very simple terms, a shunt regulator (including the FH012) 'shorts' across the stator, while the series regulator goes 'open' to the load. That makes sense to me; I can see that if there is no current flow in the stator there should be less heat which should improve stator reliability. These things are not cheap but after a bit of searching I found one

on Amazon.com

for $155 (incl. shipping). I'll recover some of that from selling the Shindengen FH012AA.

How?

I mounted the new Compu-Fire regulator inside the front left of the fairing where the R/R is located on '08+ Sprints. It needs only a slight elongation of the mounting holes to bolt it directly on the revised fairing bracket (Triumph Part # T2301608). The regulator is already wired and comes with a weather-sealed connector for the stator connection. It’s supplied with a blank connector to fit on the stator leads – but for some reason terminals aren’t included. That wasn’t a problem since I wanted to fit a Metripack connector to match the one previously installed on my stator leads. The battery leads on the Compu-Fire regulator are a generous 1.45m (57”) so plenty long enough to reach the battery from the new location. A fuse holder is included and the wires have ring terminals so that side is straightforward although I chose to fit a Metri-Pack 630 fuse holder in place of the one supplied with the R/R.

Comparison

I did a back-to-back comparison of both R/Rs to check output and temperature. I disconnected the headlights – my thinking being that with reduced load the R/Rs would have to regulate more thereby highlighting any difference.

Output

• FH012AA: 14.25V at idle speed. (Usually I see around 13.7V for this measurement so I assume this higher reading is due to reduced load with lights disconnected).
• Compu-Fire: 14.30V at idle speed.

I wasn’t really expecting any difference here and sure enough they were pretty close. One thing that I did see with the Compu-Fire was rock-steady voltage. It showed bang-on 14.30V with absolutely no variation for the entire duration that I was checking. It was mentioned earlier that the series regulator goes open circuit when it is regulating. Think of it as “switching off’’ the stator but don’t expect to see this in the voltage readings. It’s my understanding that this happens rapidly – milliseconds at a time – so a regular voltmeter is not going to show that.

Heat

To measure temps I ran with the each regulator un-mounted to eliminate any temp differences caused by heatsink properties of each bracket. In each case I let the bike go through a fan on/fan off cycle to make sure the engine and oil were fully warmed so they would not skew the temperature readings I took from the stator cover. I held the bike at 3,000 rpm for one minute thinking that would force the regulators to regulate which would highlight any differences.

FH012AA

• Ambient: 12°C
• Regulator temp: 42°C
• Stator Cover
  • Center: 97 °C
  • Edge: 87 °C

Compu-Fire

• Ambient: 17°C
• Regulator temp: 40°C
• Stator Cover
  • Center: 85 °C
  • Edge: 83 °C

Those results surprised me. I thought that engine and oil temperatures would heat the stator cover to such an extent that any difference in the stator winding would be difficult to measure. The results don't represent real world conditions but the purpose was to compare the two different regulators.

Conclusion

I really thought that I was going to have trouble measuring any difference between these two different types of regulator. However, the lower temperatures I saw at the stator cover confirm that the series type regulator is doing what I hoped it would. I’m not suggesting that this is an essential mod but for me it provides extra peace of mind as far as charging system reliability is concerned. On some of the road trips I’ve done that extra "insurance" is worth having.

Comparison: Shindengen FH012AA vs. Compu-Fire 55402

[Switchblade]

This is one of the best explanation :

http://mastercircuits.blogspot.com/2010/05/motorcycle-voltage-regulator.html

[mello dude]

-Illegal - Thanks for you post. Interesting note on the SH775. -- Apparently the Ultimate series R/R doesnt exist yet. I know Shindengen is working on higher current models, possibly one of those will be the one.

-Switchblade, have you seen the 10k voltage surge?

-On Compufire, we have seen one completely eat it, and also one have the 10k voltage surge to +17V.

-I have the Compufire, and thus far it has performed well, no complaints. It runs fairly steady 14.0 to 14.4 through out the rev range to redline. And I have noticed that the bike does run cooler, seat of the pants feels a tic more spunky.

http://www.vfrdiscussion.com/forum/index.php/topic/69571-compufire-rr-install-wrap-up-on-a-5th-gen-finally/?fromsearch=1

-Still as all this is going on, locally I have fixed some friends bikes and for the moment, if I need to do another R/R fix, I'm sticking with the FH020aa units. But as a perpetual geek engineer foole, I like to follow this stuff, somebody at some point is gonna nail it.

[mello dude]

For grins, I'm posting the shunt vs series temp graphics on a Aprilla.

[Switchblade]

"-Switchblade, have you seen the 10k voltage surge-"

No not yet mello dude but I am considering buying a backup .

[CandyRedRC46]

I can confirm the 10,000rpm voltage surge with the compufire Rr. Accelerating passed 10,000 RPMs the voltage would spike to 17 volts and would not drop back to normal until 8 or 9 thousand. This was really scary stuff as my HIDs would disconnect at 15 volts and everything would go black. The compufire was never designed with high rpm engines in mind. The one I bought was intended for life on a Harley. The series rr basically just switches on and off rapidly to disparate current instead of grounding it off. My guess is that it just couldn't keep up with the RPMs of the Vfr.

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[Switchblade]

I can confirm the 10,000rpm voltage surge with the compufire Rr. Accelerating passed 10,000 RPMs the voltage would spike to 17 volts and would not drop back to normal until 8 or 9 thousand. This was really scary stuff as my HIDs would disconnect at 15 volts and everything would go black. The compufire was never designed with high rpm engines in mind. The one I bought was intended for life on a Harley. The series rr basically just switches on and off rapidly to disparate current instead of grounding it off. My guess is that it just couldn't keep up with the RPMs of the Vfr.

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

What did you install CandyRed ?

[CandyRedRC46]

I installed the compufire rr around 2010. I got just shy of 2 years and 20,000 miles out of it before it completely shit out and took the stator out with it too. I can say that below 10,000 RPMs it was rock solid at 14.4 volts and ice cold, but at 10,000 RPMs it would just cut out and spike voltage to 17volts. I spoke with compufire and they would not honor service/warranty due to it not being applicable to a Vfr. It was intended to go on Harley's. That's when I switched over to the FH203aa rr.

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[Switchblade]

Thanks for the info, gonna order a extra one. Dont have any confidence in the SH775 ..

[Guest]

Damn. I was really hoping that I can go the cheap way with SH775 but now I'll have to keep looking for a cheap FH012 or FH020 :(

[Switchblade]

Damn. I was really hoping that I can go the cheap way with SH775 but now I'll have to keep looking for a cheap FH012 or FH020 :(

I'm gonna to continue to run my SH775 but will also have FH020 ready for replacement..

[Guest]

Does anyone know the weight of FH020?

[Switchblade]

Is it listed here .

[Switchblade]

It less the stock the one .

[CandyRedRC46]

The SH775 is still a shunt style rr right?

[Switchblade]

The SH775 is still a shunt style rr right?

No its the series type ...

Better spec sheet :

[Switchblade]

Better explanation :

In the shunt type the scr is triggered whenever the rectified voltage is higher than say 14.5V anywhere during EACH 1/2 PERIOD.

In the serie type, the SCR is triggered whenever the voltage is lower than say 14.5V for an ENTIRE 1/2 PERIOD.

[coderighter]

My Compu-Fire died under high rpm.

http://www.vfrdiscussion.com/forum/index.php/topic/74088-my-compu-fire-regulator-died-today/

I replaced it with a Cycle Electrics 50 amp series R/R (I'm not giving up). First trip out I ran the RPM up (close to home), no problems. Couple thousand miles now, so far, so good.

http://www.vfrdiscussion.com/forum/index.php/topic/74126-ok-second-try-for-a-non-shunt-type-rr/