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Just Installed a Compufire Series Regulator


DaveB

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^^^ -- Posplayr, you work at Compufire?

No I don't.

There is now an OEM SERIES R/R made by Shindengen that is available NEW for about $80 from Polaris.

SH-775

The Shunt Series R/R has continued on but there is now a new Series R/R from Shindengen that is available new for about $80 from the Polaris dealers.
Not sure if you have seen any of the posts for the SH-775. It is the same form factor as many of the SHUNT R/R's from Shindengen.
Originally Posted by Steve
"Cycle Parts Warehouse will be happy to sell you a brand new one for $67.92.
"Retail" price is $77.99, so even that is well under $100.
If you want to get the official connectors that plug into that R/R, Eastern Beaver has them for about $20."
I contacted Eastern Beaver today and he said he didn't know what connectors that SH 775 regulator took, so I wonder where Steve got his information.
Steve (not me) has first hand knowledge from having installed an SH 775. There are tons of example installs at the GSR. They even include pictures.
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Posplayr,

I have read your post on the Compufire install as well as the links you have provided. Thanks. I have also read the previous discussions, theories and comparisons of Shunt vers. Series regulators.

This whole project has been quite a learning experience and the whole time since I had lost the original R&R app. three years ago I had it in my mind it worked as a series pass regulator very much like the ones we use in telecommunication 12, 24 or 48VDC power supplies. I even went to LED tail light bulbs thinking I was saving energy when only adding more load that the shunt regulator had to dissipate. I understand the reason now for using shunt type regulators with PM rotors due to the high open circuit voltages. To prove this to myself and before installing the Compufire I bought a 35A three-phase bridge rectifier and temporarily wired it to the stator and using a Fluke 123 Scope Meter observed the voltage and it’s waveform. At 6k RPM the open circuit voltage exceeded 100 volts. Wow!

A couple of weeks ago the question came to mind and it is one that I have not seen addressed in any of the discussions or post on the Compufire series regulators. With this extremely high open circuit voltage available what would happen to the fuel system computer and other equipment if this series pass regulator were to short? Do you know if Compufire in their design have addressed this? What are your thoughts on this scenario and do you see it leading to a catastrophic and costly event?

Thanks,

Lester

If the Compufire were to short between it's stator wires and the (+) battery terminal (i.e. MOST FET short) will simply over charge the battery at higher RPM. Yes the voltage is high in the stator when it is unloaded but as soon as you load it with the battery/electrical it drops to more normal voltages.

So I don't really see any danger, and assume that the CF has to be designed to handle larger open loop voltages. The stator is only capable of supporting currents directly related to the field strength that the PM stator will support. Even in a failure mode the SERIES R/R is not much worse than what would happen with a continuously shorting SHUNT R/R (if shorted to round) or will just not regulate if shorted to the plus side.

As usual, you don't want to touch the stator wires when they are open loop and especially not at high RPM.

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Posplayr - Are you sure about that? Near all previous R/Rs by Shindengen that were a shunt were labled with SH -- example - SH6890A. That's the OEM, POS considered the upgraded part for Honda.

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Posplayr - Are you sure about that? Near all previous R/Rs by Shindengen that were a shunt were labled with SH -- example - SH6890A. That's the OEM, POS considered the upgraded part for Honda.

The website at Shindengen specifically labels it as a "series" regulator. http://www.shindengen.co.jp/product_e/electro/catalog.html

Go to the above page and search for "775".

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Posplayr - Are you sure about that? Near all previous R/Rs by Shindengen that were a shunt were labled with SH -- example - SH6890A. That's the OEM, POS considered the upgraded part for Honda.

The website at Shindengen specifically labels it as a "series" regulator. http://www.shindengen.co.jp/product_e/electro/catalog.html

Go to the above page and search for "775".

Some interesting info - thanks. Looks like Shindengen is developing some higher amp models to that too.

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Where do you buy the connectors for the SH775 ?

Found them ...

Order from Polaris $73 to the door..

Not in the UK: About UKP85 ($135), sadly... Still cheaper than a CompuFire, though.

Ciao,

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A series rr made by Shindengen sounds promising, nut those amperage numbers are still way too low.

What. way to low for what? 35 amps max. 420 watts thats not bad. Stator's about 500 watts if your lucky.

Where do you buy the connectors for the SH775 ?

Found them ...

Order from Polaris $73 to the door..

Not in the UK: About UKP85 ($135), sadly... Still cheaper than a CompuFire, though.

Ciao,

You guys always get screwed. Import taxes I guess.

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First, I believe 35 amp for the SH775 is burst, not sustained.

Second, My Compu-fire died earlier this year. Details here -

http://www.vfrdiscussion.com/forum/index.php/topic/74088-my-compu-fire-regulator-died-today/

I replaced it with a Cycle Electrics 50 amp series R/R. It's been a couple thousand miles, so far so good. Details here -

http://www.vfrdiscussion.com/forum/index.php/topic/74126-ok-second-try-for-a-non-shunt-type-rr/

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First, I believe 35 amp for the SH775 is burst, not sustained.

Second, My Compu-fire died earlier this year. Details here -

http://www.vfrdiscussion.com/forum/index.php/topic/74088-my-compu-fire-regulator-died-today/

I replaced it with a Cycle Electrics 50 amp series R/R. It's been a couple thousand miles, so far so good. Details here -

http://www.vfrdiscussion.com/forum/index.php/topic/74126-ok-second-try-for-a-non-shunt-type-rr/

It can be 100 amp, your only gonna get 500 watts out of the stator if its perfect.

Here how it works 500W/13.5Vdc= 37.5A. Thats it so 50amp, 100amp and 35amp for me is plenty and remember your using AT least half of the 500W output to run the bike.

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First, I believe 35 amp for the SH775 is burst, not sustained.

Second, My Compu-fire died earlier this year. Details here -

http://www.vfrdiscussion.com/forum/index.php/topic/74088-my-compu-fire-regulator-died-today/

I replaced it with a Cycle Electrics 50 amp series R/R. It's been a couple thousand miles, so far so good. Details here -

http://www.vfrdiscussion.com/forum/index.php/topic/74126-ok-second-try-for-a-non-shunt-type-rr/

It can be 100 amp, your only gonna get 500 watts out of the stator if its perfect.

Here how it works 500W/13.5Vdc= 37.5A. Thats it so 50amp, 100amp and 35amp for me is plenty and remember your using AT least half of the 500W output to run the bike.

Fully aware of Ohm's law and how it works. I know the R/R can only "process" as much power as the stator will generate. It's just nice to have a little headroom and not have to "stress" things if possible.

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First, I believe 35 amp for the SH775 is burst, not sustained.

Second, My Compu-fire died earlier this year. Details here -

http://www.vfrdiscussion.com/forum/index.php/topic/74088-my-compu-fire-regulator-died-today/

I replaced it with a Cycle Electrics 50 amp series R/R. It's been a couple thousand miles, so far so good. Details here -

http://www.vfrdiscussion.com/forum/index.php/topic/74126-ok-second-try-for-a-non-shunt-type-rr/

It can be 100 amp, your only gonna get 500 watts out of the stator if its perfect.

Here how it works 500W/13.5Vdc= 37.5A. Thats it so 50amp, 100amp and 35amp for me is plenty and remember your using AT least half of the 500W output to run the bike.

Fully aware of Ohm's law and how it works. I know the R/R can only "process" as much power as the stator will generate. It's just nice to have a little headroom and not have to "stress" things if possible.

I agree and I wish someone would build a externally mount alternator that would fit many bikes and eliminate the POS stator and R\R setup.

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I agree and I wish someone would build a externally mount alternator that would fit many bikes and eliminate the POS stator and R\R setup.

Actually, the conventional voltage regulated alternator is very inefficient, about 60-65%). The permanent magnet alternator with series R/R is much more efficient, about 90%. However, a permanent magnet alternator with a shunt regulator is the worst of all. At half load, it will be less the 50% efficient. The best a shunt can do is full load, and even then, it's only about 90%. If you ran LED's and HID's (35 watt), no extra gear, and the fan not running the shunt is only about 30% efficient.

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I agree and I wish someone would build a externally mount alternator that would fit many bikes and eliminate the POS stator and R\R setup.

Actually, the conventional voltage regulated alternator is very inefficient, about 60-65%). The permanent magnet alternator with series R/R is much more efficient, about 90%. However, a permanent magnet alternator with a shunt regulator is the worst of all. At half load, it will be less the 50% efficient. The best a shunt can do is full load, and even then, it's only about 90%. If you ran LED's and HID's (35 watt), no extra gear, and the fan not running the shunt is only about 30% efficient.

I dont care about it being efficient I want to last 100,000 miles.

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Something like this mount like the Toro supercharger.

Our 2025 Ultra Mini Alternator cup-t.jpg

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Or this one.

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I agree and I wish someone would build a externally mount alternator that would fit many bikes and eliminate the POS stator and R\R setup.

Actually, the conventional voltage regulated alternator is very inefficient, about 60-65%). The permanent magnet alternator with series R/R is much more efficient, about 90%. However, a permanent magnet alternator with a shunt regulator is the worst of all. At half load, it will be less the 50% efficient. The best a shunt can do is full load, and even then, it's only about 90%. If you ran LED's and HID's (35 watt), no extra gear, and the fan not running the shunt is only about 30% efficient.

I dont care about it being efficient I want to last 100,000 miles.

The stator fails because the shunt R/R puts the stator under full load all the time. The only reason the automotive alternator lasts so long is it's almost never under full load as it regulates by controlling the magnetic field.

A shunt regulator is like if a car had cruise control that worked by pinning the throttle and then trying to use the brakes to control the speed!

In theory, the stator should outlast an automotive style alternator as long as it has a regulator like a series type that doesn't force the stator to be under full load. The automotive alternator is exposed to the environment, is fan cooled, has "sealed" bearings, and slip rings with brushes. The permanent magnet type on our bikes are protected from the environment, oil cooled, bearings in oil bath, and no slip ring or brushes. There is no reason a stator shouldn't last the life of the bike, it just needs to be connected to a regulator that doesn't use the brakes to control the voltage.

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In addition to my '98 VFR, I've got two Kawasakis that both use an external alternator with internal regulator (ZRX and Concours) run off a self-adjusting chain from the crank. I have been on Kaw boards for more than 10 years and there are never complaints about dead charging systems, cooked batteries, spontaneously-combusting 30 amp fuse holders, dead on the highway in traffic at night in the rain, etc. etc. etc. There are many ZRXs built in '01 that are on their original batteries, and the Concours board has reports of getting 200K miles out of the charging system with an occasional brush length check. The stator-R/R system is arguably lighter and cheaper, but it's unreliable to the point of occasionally affecting safety. My VFR is better in many ways than the Kaws, but the VFR is the one I sweat melting down far from home (same is true for my speed triple, which has the same weak charging setup).

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In addition to my '98 VFR, I've got two Kawasakis that both use an external alternator with internal regulator (ZRX and Concours) run off a self-adjusting chain from the crank. I have been on Kaw boards for more than 10 years and there are never complaints about dead charging systems, cooked batteries, spontaneously-combusting 30 amp fuse holders, dead on the highway in traffic at night in the rain, etc. etc. etc. There are many ZRXs built in '01 that are on their original batteries, and the Concours board has reports of getting 200K miles out of the charging system with an occasional brush length check. The stator-R/R system is arguably lighter and cheaper, but it's unreliable to the point of occasionally affecting safety. My VFR is better in many ways than the Kaws, but the VFR is the one I sweat melting down far from home (same is true for my speed triple, which has the same weak charging setup).

Thats what I want ....

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In addition to my '98 VFR, I've got two Kawasakis that both use an external alternator with internal regulator (ZRX and Concours) run off a self-adjusting chain from the crank. I have been on Kaw boards for more than 10 years and there are never complaints about dead charging systems, cooked batteries, spontaneously-combusting 30 amp fuse holders, dead on the highway in traffic at night in the rain, etc. etc. etc. There are many ZRXs built in '01 that are on their original batteries, and the Concours board has reports of getting 200K miles out of the charging system with an occasional brush length check. The stator-R/R system is arguably lighter and cheaper, but it's unreliable to the point of occasionally affecting safety. My VFR is better in many ways than the Kaws, but the VFR is the one I sweat melting down far from home (same is true for my speed triple, which has the same weak charging setup).

I'm hoping the getting rid of the shunt regulator is going to fix most of the issues. The rest is regular checks and cleaning of connections.

I used to have a '04 ZRX (silver) and thou the charging system was trouble free, it did rattle at idle which drove me crazy. Sometimes it was just a slight rattle, at others, it was down right load.

The one thing I could never figure is why the ZRX, which is more of a 'standard' then a 'sport' has compression and rebound adjustments, front and rear, while the VFR has none?

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I agree and I wish someone would build a externally mount alternator ........ and eliminate the POS stator and R\R setup.

I've got one of those. It's called a BMW K1300. :tongue:

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I agree and I wish someone would build a externally mount alternator ........ and eliminate the POS stator and R\R setup.

I've got one of those. It's called a BMW K1300. :tongue:

+1

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