Member Contributer kostritzer Posted June 15, 2011 Author Member Contributer Share Posted June 15, 2011 I'll definitely try to weigh the arm the next time I have it off. Actually, I need to remove it soon to mill the old lugs off so we can take measurements for the new lug. Wish I had the old VFR swingarm to weigh for comparison! I'm happy to weigh the original Gen5 swingarm, as soon as it comes out. To do this properly, it'd be worth weighing the whole assembly; wheel, axle, caliper, etc - not just swingarm. I can do this with the original stuff and will post it once I've bought a damn bathroom scale! I've thought of a possible solution for the exhaust, I could run a 2x 2-1 system. The idea came to me while I was watching MotoGP! All the V4's run the same system, I'm sure for packaging reasons as well. Problem is, I don't know much (yet) about exhaust design, with respect to runner lengths and diameters, etc. I can use diameters from the standard exhaust as a starting point (obviously lengths will change) and go from there... Positives: Solves packaging problems, Nobody (outside of MotoGP) has one, and most importantly, It'll look cool! Negatives; trying to prevent torque dips will be harder, and obviously the fab-work (but that's arguably a positive anyway!) Anyone know anything about exhaust design, or could direct me to some decent texts??? Actually, member HondaRV4 did just that with his exhaust on his 4th gen track bike. His bike is a big inspiration for this one, so much so that I bought a 4th gen last weekend.... Now I've got a bit of a dilemma! 4th or 5th? What to do, what to do!?!?!? Oh, I just love creating problems for myself.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Member Contributer kostritzer Posted June 15, 2011 Author Member Contributer Share Posted June 15, 2011 Anyone in So Cal have an RC51 fuel tank I could borrow for mock up purposes? Have you seen one? The airbox is so massive that they had to extend the lower back portion of the tank under the seat a little bit in order to get some more fuel in there. Love to loan you mine, but cross country shipping would be a bit inconvenient. Try Speedzilla Forum for a loaner? Yes, I forgot about that. I really like the shape of the tank, I think it would look good with the 5th gen frame. Maybe a "dummy" RC51 tank with a fuel cell underneath would be the way to go. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted June 15, 2011 Share Posted June 15, 2011 Yes, I forgot about that. I really like the shape of the tank, I think it would look good with the 5th gen frame. Maybe a "dummy" RC51 tank with a fuel cell underneath would be the way to go. I've always thought about incorporating one into a subframe. While you're at it, if you have access to aluminium welding, why don't you give it a go? You have a fuel pump anyway, so you can put fuel wherever you want it... What's the driver for the tank anyway? Looks? RC51's do look damn nice... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Member Contributer kostritzer Posted June 15, 2011 Author Member Contributer Share Posted June 15, 2011 Yes, I forgot about that. I really like the shape of the tank, I think it would look good with the 5th gen frame. Maybe a "dummy" RC51 tank with a fuel cell underneath would be the way to go. I've always thought about incorporating one into a subframe. While you're at it, if you have access to aluminium welding, why don't you give it a go? You have a fuel pump anyway, so you can put fuel wherever you want it... What's the driver for the tank anyway? Looks? RC51's do look damn nice... Yes, looks were my main motivation for the 51 tank. Tyga makes a carbon tank cover for the RVF400, that would probably work pretty well too. Unfortunately this 4th gen is occupying my mind more than the 5th at the moment. Its a complete running bike, so it can be made into a track bike quite quickly, and I hate missing track days when the weather is so nice! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted June 17, 2011 Share Posted June 17, 2011 NEWS! I've been looking for forks for a while, now I got two sets! 1 set off an '05 CBR1000RR, the other off a GSXR1000 K7. Thanks Fleabay! I bid on both thinking I might get one if lucky, and luck saw the humor in sending both my way! Considering I could have spent more than what they cost on a signle set of CBR954 forks from a wrecker I feel I'm doing well! Some specs: ORIGIN CBR1000RR5 GSXR1000K7 Fork Free length 325 350 Upper clamp 50 50 Lower clamp 54 56 axle diameter 25 25 caliper mounts 108 108 I will need to find a matching stem and triple clamps, obviously 954 or early 1000RR would be an easy option here. And I'm not sure of the stem length requirements. Some advantages of the K7 forks (besides that they look awesome!) is that they have much longer clamp areas than the CBR forks, and they also don't narrow down between upper and lower clamp areas. This gives more adjustment range to play with fork angles and more room for clipons. Also I'm very happy about the caliper mounts, I bought a set of Tokico Radials a while back and looks like they'll fit either fork without problem. I'll post some photos soon! I also have the chance to get a CBR1000RR5 swingarm with shock and linkages for cheap. I'm still considering this for the rear headers and a 4-2-1 exhaust option. but it'd be more work with the swingarm pivot. Hmmm, too many options! Question on WHEELS (anyone with some knowledge on this?) I love the six-spoke standard front wheel. Has anyone tried to find a bearing with outer-race to fit the VFR wheel and inner race to clear a 25mm front axle? This would make me very happy! I'll have a query-around with some bearing places but if someone has the answer in the meantime, you could save us some time! That's all for now! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Member Contributer kostritzer Posted June 18, 2011 Author Member Contributer Share Posted June 18, 2011 Question on WHEELS (anyone with some knowledge on this?) I love the six-spoke standard front wheel. Has anyone tried to find a bearing with outer-race to fit the VFR wheel and inner race to clear a 25mm front axle? This would make me very happy! I'll have a query-around with some bearing places but if someone has the answer in the meantime, you could save us some time! That's all for now! That front wheel is a boat anchor! get rid of it! I'm not a big fan of three spokes, but they are a helluva lot lighter. I'm sure you could fit an SP2 front wheel which I'm partial to. I know I know, opinions are like assholes... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Veefer800Canuck Posted June 18, 2011 Share Posted June 18, 2011 Use the gixxer forks because they Are longer. You'll need it! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Member Contributer kostritzer Posted June 18, 2011 Author Member Contributer Share Posted June 18, 2011 Use the gixxer forks because they Are longer. You'll need it! I'm going to run 07-08 CBR600RR forks on the 4th gen. They're quite short! 700mm if I remember correctly. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Veefer800Canuck Posted June 18, 2011 Share Posted June 18, 2011 Hope your front tire doesn't hit the cylinder head or rad! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Member Contributer kostritzer Posted June 18, 2011 Author Member Contributer Share Posted June 18, 2011 Hope your front tire doesn't hit the cylinder head or rad! Radiator maybe, cylinder head I doubt it. I can always curve or relocate the radiator for more clearance. The way the bike sits at the moment with tons of free sag, its already at about the same fork length as the CBR600RR forks, plus the top triple is the "gull" design, so I get back a few mm's with that. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted June 19, 2011 Share Posted June 19, 2011 Cheers for the feedback! Yeah, I was worried the 6-spoke front is a waste of time. Dammit, I just can't get past the fact that 3-spoke wheels are about as exciting as watching paint dry! But you're right, I'll be on the hunt for something a bit more weight-weary... Has anyone ever weighed wheels? The GSXR forks have one problem; they're 56mm, which means I need a GSXR1000 K7 lower triple, which means that's a 28mm offset (which I'd like to keep higher rather than lower) and also means I can't run the Honda top-triple, which'd be good for the Gullwing top and extra room. Basically if I use the K7 forks I'm stuck with K7 tripleclamps and I haven't figured out how to make them work yet... Does anyone know of anything that uses 56mm lower clamp mounts?? One more data fact - I weighed the CBR954 swingarm, and it came in at 5.8kg. That's pretty good in my book! That, along with wheels, brakes, etc, should add up to something fairly significant! When I start pulling off components I'll weigh everything off the VFR to compare. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Member Contributer kostritzer Posted June 19, 2011 Author Member Contributer Share Posted June 19, 2011 Cheers for the feedback! Yeah, I was worried the 6-spoke front is a waste of time. Dammit, I just can't get past the fact that 3-spoke wheels are about as exciting as watching paint dry! But you're right, I'll be on the hunt for something a bit more weight-weary... Has anyone ever weighed wheels? The GSXR forks have one problem; they're 56mm, which means I need a GSXR1000 K7 lower triple, which means that's a 28mm offset (which I'd like to keep higher rather than lower) and also means I can't run the Honda top-triple, which'd be good for the Gullwing top and extra room. Basically if I use the K7 forks I'm stuck with K7 tripleclamps and I haven't figured out how to make them work yet... Does anyone know of anything that uses 56mm lower clamp mounts?? One more data fact - I weighed the CBR954 swingarm, and it came in at 5.8kg. That's pretty good in my book! That, along with wheels, brakes, etc, should add up to something fairly significant! When I start pulling off components I'll weigh everything off the VFR to compare. Can't help you with the forks, other than suggesting that you bore the lower triples from 54-56mm. As for the front wheel, how about an SP1 front? They're a six spoke design, and they have to weight less than a VFR wheel, if not as light as the SP2 5 spoker. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted June 20, 2011 Share Posted June 20, 2011 Can't help you with the forks, other than suggesting that you bore the lower triples from 54-56mm. As for the front wheel, how about an SP1 front? They're a six spoke design, and they have to weight less than a VFR wheel, if not as light as the SP2 5 spoker. Bore out triple clamps? Does anyone do that? It could work, only need 1mm off the wall... On that line of thinking, could also turn down the forks... On the SP1 wheels, I've been wondering if there is much of a weight difference between them and the SP2 wheels... Have you ever weighed them? Also do they use the same axles? CBR954 and 1000RR's all seem to run 25mm rear axles, and going off the forks, the front axle is 25mm on both the GSXR and CBR. This really opens up alot of wheel options... So what's the deal now, are you going Gen 4 or 5?? Can I just say: Longer stroke, Complete ground-up redesigned engine (Gen-4 is based on RC30, Gen-5 is RC45), FI, and nobody's done one (yet...) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Baileyrock Posted June 20, 2011 Share Posted June 20, 2011 1 set off an '05 CBR1000RR, the other off a GSXR1000 K7. Some specs: ORIGIN CBR1000RR5 GSXR1000K7 Fork Free length 325 350 Upper clamp 50 50 Lower clamp 54 56 I'm not sure what numbers your talking about as fork free length, but Fork lengths specs are: 05 CBR 1k- 717mm GSXR 1k K7 - 720mm Ref. RC51 - 755mm BTW GSXR 1k forks from K3, K4, K5 & K6 all have 54mm lower clamp Dia. and K3/K4 have 32mm offset and K5/K6 have 30mm offset(triple clamp). K7 GSXR 750 forks I'm pretty sure are 54mm (bottom clamp)also and are 735mm long. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Member Contributer kostritzer Posted June 21, 2011 Author Member Contributer Share Posted June 21, 2011 Can't help you with the forks, other than suggesting that you bore the lower triples from 54-56mm. As for the front wheel, how about an SP1 front? They're a six spoke design, and they have to weight less than a VFR wheel, if not as light as the SP2 5 spoker. Bore out triple clamps? Does anyone do that? It could work, only need 1mm off the wall... On that line of thinking, could also turn down the forks... On the SP1 wheels, I've been wondering if there is much of a weight difference between them and the SP2 wheels... Have you ever weighed them? Also do they use the same axles? CBR954 and 1000RR's all seem to run 25mm rear axles, and going off the forks, the front axle is 25mm on both the GSXR and CBR. This really opens up alot of wheel options... So what's the deal now, are you going Gen 4 or 5?? Can I just say: Longer stroke, Complete ground-up redesigned engine (Gen-4 is based on RC30, Gen-5 is RC45), FI, and nobody's done one (yet...) Well, I don't know for certainty that the SP2 wheel is lighter, just one of the things I've read online. I know SP2 wheels have been installed on bikes with a 25mm front axle, its a matter of changing the bearings and spacers apparently. I know its definitely been done to early 1000RR's. Looks like I'm going 4th gen for now. I currently have no running bikes, track or otherwise, and I found a cheap running 4th gen that I can get track ready much sooner than the 5th. Ideally I'd have a 4th gen with a 5th gen engine in it, as I like the overall design of the 4th gen frame a little more, and the 5th gen engine is pretty frackin' magical. I just sold my NC30 recently, and the 4th gen is kinda like a +1 size NC30 in many ways. Working on it seems very familiar! In the meantime I'll keep an eye on your project, and maybe pick up again on the 5th gen once I get the 4th gen squared away... I think I've typed "gen" enough now to last me the rest of my life. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted June 21, 2011 Share Posted June 21, 2011 I might call you GenGEn from here on. Just to confuse you even more while you're nice and vulnerable; A recent Performance Bikes magazine had a reader bike snippet of someone who squeezed a Gen4 engine in an NC30 frame. The results were claimed to be pretty damn spectacular... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Member Contributer kostritzer Posted June 21, 2011 Author Member Contributer Share Posted June 21, 2011 I might call you GenGEn from here on. Just to confuse you even more while you're nice and vulnerable; A recent Performance Bikes magazine had a reader bike snippet of someone who squeezed a Gen4 engine in an NC30 frame. The results were claimed to be pretty damn spectacular... Ha Ha, Yeah, I've seen the NC30/RC36 hybrid. I actually frequent the PB mag forums and 400greybike nearly as much as I do this forum! I just received an NC30 swingarm, I'm going to try to fit the hub to the 750. If I had a frame I'd be tempted to stuff an RC46 motor in it! (notice how I've managed to avoid using that three letter abbreviation? ). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest novaman64 Posted June 27, 2011 Share Posted June 27, 2011 I've been searching for a track bike for a few months. CBR600, SV650, Ninja 650R, even a 2008+ Ninja 250R. Meanwhile, I have a perfectly good 5th gen VFR800 sitting in my garage gathering dust. It's stock with the exception of a Jardine slip-on and a Power Commander. I can only imagine how good it would sound (to me) charging down the main straight at Willow Springs. Thanks to this thread I am inspired to get this fat-boy 800 on a diet with some suspension mods and "run what I got." I'll be following the advise, ideas and goings-on here. Thanks. Something like this, maybe: Do you have any specifics on this bike? Love the exhaust, and specially the tail section. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Veefer800Canuck Posted June 27, 2011 Share Posted June 27, 2011 Something like this, maybe: Do you have any specifics on this bike? Love the exhaust, and specially the tail section. That is a photoshopped version of Toro1's bike. The exhaust and front end are real, the tailsection is not. I'll put a link in here in a minute when I find it..... Heer 'y are: http://www.vfrdiscussion.com/forum/index.php/topic/56404-my-98-gets-some-new-suspenders/page__p__667682#entry667682 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted July 28, 2011 Share Posted July 28, 2011 Hmmm, all quiet on the Trackbike-front? I've bought up a few more ebay parts... So time to take a poll- I can either go with a GSXR1000 K7 or CBR1000 RR5 front end. The decision will dictate front wheel selection, as the disc spacing will be different, and I don't like the idea of spacing out discs... Does anyone know of any measurements on disc-spacing? I'm thinking of wheel options... CBR fork/triples assembled place the discs at around 120mm apart (axial), my VFR discs are 135. I haven't measured the GSXR spacing, but the triples are narrower than the CBR by about 7mm. 25mm front spindle gives plenty of wheel options and disc size spacing is no big deal with radial calipers. So the critical dimension becomes disc spacing. Other decision makers are fork offsets - CBR is 30mm, GSXR is 28, The GSXR has considerably stiffer forks (56mm vs 54mm), at the moment I'm not sure if that's a good thing or not. Because As we all undoubtedly know, Mr. Stoner's front-end chatter issues a few years' ago were caused by forks that were too stiff, and since his Desmosedici GP-09 was essentially a sub-standard V4 derivative of the RC46, I don't want to plague my otherwise perfect riding experience with overly-stiff forks. OK, seriously though, not much else going on. Although, I am heading to my first (of hopefully many) trackdays in two weeks! Keen! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Member Contributer KevCarver Posted July 28, 2011 Member Contributer Share Posted July 28, 2011 Hmmm, all quiet on the Trackbike-front? I've bought up a few more ebay parts... So time to take a poll- I can either go with a GSXR1000 K7 or CBR1000 RR5 front end. The decision will dictate front wheel selection, as the disc spacing will be different, and I don't like the idea of spacing out discs... Does anyone know of any measurements on disc-spacing? I'm thinking of wheel options... CBR fork/triples assembled place the discs at around 120mm apart (axial), my VFR discs are 135. I haven't measured the GSXR spacing, but the triples are narrower than the CBR by about 7mm. 25mm front spindle gives plenty of wheel options and disc size spacing is no big deal with radial calipers. So the critical dimension becomes disc spacing. Other decision makers are fork offsets - CBR is 30mm, GSXR is 28, The GSXR has considerably stiffer forks (56mm vs 54mm), at the moment I'm not sure if that's a good thing or not. Because As we all undoubtedly know, Mr. Stoner's front-end chatter issues a few years' ago were caused by forks that were too stiff, and since his Desmosedici GP-09 was essentially a sub-standard V4 derivative of the RC46, I don't want to plague my otherwise perfect riding experience with overly-stiff forks. OK, seriously though, not much else going on. Although, I am heading to my first (of hopefully many) trackdays in two weeks! Keen! If you are building a 250+ hp V4 race bike, then I wouldn't use either! On the other hand, my personal preferences are keeping Honda bits on a Honda! That's just me, though... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted January 22, 2012 Share Posted January 22, 2012 Jokes aside, things have been a bit slower than planned but the new news is I have the GSXR forks in the frame! So that's GSXR1000 K7 forks, running 50mm upper and 56mm lower triples and 28mm offset. The lower steering stem bearing is identical to the Honda (ID/OD = 30/55mm), but the upper was a real PITA - stem is 30mm and frame is 47mm. There is one bearing which is a non-standard size, it only comes as a taper roller bearing and is made by NSK but on special order only and at around £60-70 each after delivery. I found a replacement at 1/6 the cost from China, I'm not a huge fan of Chinese bearings but I'll be keeping a close eye on it. As far as fitting the forks in the frame, once the bearings were sorted it was as if it were meant to be - the GSXR lower clamps needed no modification to fit the frame and even the lock stops were in (almost) the right place! There was one other thing I noticed is that the stem is a few mm too long - which means the upper steering head bearing inner race lands a bit too low on the stem which means you can't tighten the stem nut as it runs out of thread. All this needs though is a spacer made up - about 2-3mm sets the stem nut at the right height with plenty of thread. I'll have to post some pics soon. Interestingly, I sourced a CBR600 '04 front wheel into which I've put CBR1000 bearings - and the wheel sits fine on the GSXR axle. As it was an ebay wheel I need to get some discs and check that the discs line up with the calipers, but on first measurement it seems about right. So if anyone's interested in getting ANY modern GSXR forks into a VFR frame, I have all the bearing info you'll need to do it. Now I'm just wondering if anyone's actually interested in this... :) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SEBSPEED Posted January 22, 2012 Share Posted January 22, 2012 So if anyone's interested in getting ANY modern GSXR forks into a VFR frame, I have all the bearing info you'll need to do it. Now I'm just wondering if anyone's actually interested in this... :) Of course we're interested! First things first... let's have that bearing number, and your source. Second, how about starting a new thread dedicated to your bike? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Snakeman Posted January 22, 2012 Share Posted January 22, 2012 So if anyone's interested in getting ANY modern GSXR forks into a VFR frame, I have all the bearing info you'll need to do it. Now I'm just wondering if anyone's actually interested in this... :) Of course we're interested! First things first... let's have that bearing number, and your source. Second, how about starting a new thread dedicated to your bike? With some updated photos! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Member Contributer kostritzer Posted January 22, 2012 Author Member Contributer Share Posted January 22, 2012 Agreed, new thread + pics, that way I don't have to be reminded of my failure of a VFR800 track bike project and I can simultaneously live vicariously through yours! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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