[vfrcapn]

I thought I'd post up some pics of the 1000R I'm rebuilding. Not sure how long this is going to take, hopefully by next spring it'll be on the road. I'll post updates as anything worthwhile happens. Any hints, tips, "are you crazy?" comments appreciated.

Picked it up for $300, non-running, sitting in an overgrown backyard.


Kind of rough around the edges




Dented gas tank, no seat cowl


Will need to become a fiberglass expert...



Main issue was the motor being holed


Tear down


Got to this point to remove motor


Might as well take it the whole way and clean it up


Thought about the sss, but too much fabrication


I was keeping an eye on eBay for the F2 wheels, the first complete set at a reasonable price that popped up were these white wheels.



RC51 shock, is it going to fit?


Next need the F2 wheel and brake kits from Jamie, waiting on the new motor to be delivered, fork rebuilds and a hundred other things...

[motorhead1977]

Complete engine here: http://aakai.notlong.com - Ebay. This one ends really really soon!!!!

Seat cowl here: http://vahhi.notlong.com - ebay

[vfrcapn]

Update: As Seb said, “Dig in man! If it was easy everyone would do it!”

My original thought was to do the standard F2 front/rear wheel upgrade. I ordered Jamie’s front F2 wheel kit and after fitting that ordered the rear which is a machined carrier and three new wheel spacers. While waiting I found a 900rr rear wheel (5.5”, 180 tire) and thought I’d give it a try. Tom, mutant bike, fitted a VFR sss with a 180 so I knew it was possible for the 5.5” wheel/180 tire to fit and still line things up. I wanted to use the original swingarm though, the sss is too much fab for me.

Quick check seemed to show the wheel should fit.


The wheel/tire does fit the R swingarm and has clearance all the way up to the minimum chain length.



The F2/F3/900rr share the same sprocket carrier, so after getting Jamie’s machined carrier back I put it in the 900rr wheel and lined things up. It was apparent I would need an offset countershaft sprocket. The R bike shares sprockets with the 5/6 gen VFR, Blackbird, CB900, CB750 dohc plus some others. Kruger offers these in several different offsets, http://stores.ebay.d...ger-cycle-parts. I went with the 9mm offset, the largest measured that would squeeze in the frame.



Lining up the wheel wasn’t too difficult, Jamie’s kit includes a 12mm spacer which was just what I needed on the right.

A 2mm spacer on the left,

And everything looks lined up


The chain and wheel are within a mm of being lined up and centered. I think I’ll live with the difference at this point.

Next hurdle is machining some space under the sprocket cover where the clutch slave mounts in. This will probably mean spacing the clutch slave out about 5mm or so, necessitating a longer release rod to be machined up.

Shock extension machined up, still some final steps to finish it off. Using a 5G dogbone, 4G triangles, raising the rear of the bike about 1”.





Still waiting on the rest of the RC front end to come in next week.


Digging in! Triples are at the machinist's getting steering stems pulled, welded, turned and pressed back in for the RC front end swap.

[Kel]

And everything looks lined up




Looking good! How many mm between chain and tire. How did you check tracking of rear tire to front tire? Which upper triple are you using?

This post has been edited by Kel: 05 April 2008 - 06:57 AM

[VF1000RS]

Gives me hope on the 5.5" wheel! Is that a Pilot Power rear tire? What size? I tried a 180 Dunlop 207 and it wouldn`t clear the swingarm. Also, what about the RC51 shock reservoir? mine hits the bottom of the seat, cut a notch in the seat? How far did you machine the sprocket carrier?

Lots of questions, but it looks like you have some issues figured out that were troubling me greatly.

[vfrcapn]

Kel, on Apr 5 2008, 04:54 AM, said:

Looking good! How many mm between chain and tire. How did you check tracking of rear tire to front tire? Which upper triple are you using?

On the tracking front-rear, I'll have to check that once I get a complete front end to bolt up. For now I'm measuring off the frame centerline, so there may be a little more work down the line. The VF forks are in pieces or I'd put them on to check. There are about 3-4mm between the chain & tire, just a little less between the chain & frame. It's a tight fit!

VF1000RS, on Apr 5 2008, 06:24 AM, said:

Gives me hope on the 5.5" wheel! Is that a Pilot Power rear tire? What size? I tried a 180 Dunlop 207 and it wouldn`t clear the swingarm. Also, what about the RC51 shock reservoir? mine hits the bottom of the seat, cut a notch in the seat? How far did you machine the sprocket carrier?

Lots of questions, but it looks like you have some issues figured out that were troubling me greatly.

It is a 180/55 PP tire. The carrier was machined by Jamie Daugherty for the F2 rear wheel. I just figured I'd bolt it up and see how close it came, no pre-planning involved. The shock reservoir does hit the bottom of the seat which will need to be notched. It doesn't look like it needs much though. I'm planning a second pin through the lower shock clevis just to eliminate any slop between the shock & extension.

The clutch slave is going to be a little bit of work, not sure exactly how to solve it yet but I guess that's the fun. No plans on motor mods, I'm just hoping the used block I bought runs.

[VF1000RS]

vfrcapn, on Apr 5 2008, 11:02 AM, said:

Kel, on Apr 5 2008, 04:54 AM, said:

Looking good! How many mm between chain and tire. How did you check tracking of rear tire to front tire? Which upper triple are you using?

On the tracking front-rear, I'll have to check that once I get a complete front end to bolt up. For now I'm measuring off the frame centerline, so there may be a little more work down the line. The VF forks are in pieces or I'd put them on to check. There are about 3-4mm between the chain & tire, just a little less between the chain & frame. It's a tight fit!

VF1000RS, on Apr 5 2008, 06:24 AM, said:

Gives me hope on the 5.5" wheel! Is that a Pilot Power rear tire? What size? I tried a 180 Dunlop 207 and it wouldn`t clear the swingarm. Also, what about the RC51 shock reservoir? mine hits the bottom of the seat, cut a notch in the seat? How far did you machine the sprocket carrier?

Lots of questions, but it looks like you have some issues figured out that were troubling me greatly.

It is a 180/55 PP tire. The carrier was machined by Jamie Daugherty for the F2 rear wheel. I just figured I'd bolt it up and see how close it came, no pre-planning involved. The shock reservoir does hit the bottom of the seat which will need to be notched. It doesn't look like it needs much though. I'm planning a second pin through the lower shock clevis just to eliminate any slop between the shock & extension.

The clutch slave is going to be a little bit of work, not sure exactly how to solve it yet but I guess that's the fun. No plans on motor mods, I'm just hoping the used block I bought runs.

Thanks for the tire tip. Almost bought a 160/60 Pilot Power for the 4.5" rear I had in place and ready to go to match the front I had. Got the 180/55 for the 5.5" once I read through your latest on the project. Used the F2 sprocket carrier and have a VF1000R caliper hanger/torque arm mocked up. Using a small Nissin underslung caliper in this setup so it will be a little different than your bike, but I haven`t been this stoked in awhile!

As far as the clutch slave cylinder, you may be able to remove enough of the countershaft cover so the sprocket will clear and not have to worry about a new clutch rod. I`ll post a pic of the Mutant setup.

Going to be close...

This post has been edited by VF1000RS: 05 April 2008 - 03:06 PM

[vfrcapn]

VF1000RS, on Apr 5 2008, 12:19 PM, said:

Thanks for the tire tip. Almost bought a 160/60 Pilot Power for the 4.5" rear I had in place and ready to go to match the front I had. Got the 180/55 for the 5.5" once I read through your latest on the project. Used the F2 sprocket carrier and have a VF1000R caliper hanger/torque arm mocked up. Using a small Nissin underslung caliper in this setup so it will be a little different than your bike, but I haven`t been this stoked in awhile!

As far as the clutch slave cylinder, you may be able to remove enough of the countershaft cover so the sprocket will clear and not have to worry about a new clutch rod. I`ll post a pic of the Mutant setup.

Going to be close...

Looks good with the cover trimmed back to just the minimum.

That was my thought, just notch the cover to clear the chain, but measuring yesterday it looked like there would still be interference with the slave. You got it right though, it all clears and it is close, thanks. Not sure if it's too close, once it's running guess I'll hear it if it is.

[Kel]

Thanks for the tire tip. Almost bought a 160/60 Pilot Power for the 4.5" rear I had in place and ready to go to match the front I had. Got the 180/55 for the 5.5" once I read through your latest on the project. Used the F2 sprocket carrier and have a VF1000R caliper hanger/torque arm mocked up. Using a small Nissin underslung caliper in this setup so it will be a little different than your bike, but I haven`t been this stoked in awhile!

Too funny Tom! I dug out my 900rr wheel today for a test fit too. Just painted it and will throw the 180 on my VFR rim on it. I'll use a 500 interceptor sprocket carrier that is on my F2 wheel. I had read this somewhere on line with good results. It's not as "robust" but it has been handling my R for some time now. It's shallow like the 600's but without the machining. I used the stock brake arm location on the frame with a fab'd brake arm attached to a 929 caliper. 9mm off set seems awfully big. I think i'll be hugging the tire and having less off set. I'll keep you guys posted.



rear brake

This post has been edited by Kel: 06 April 2008 - 05:42 AM

[VF1000RS]

Kel, on Apr 5 2008, 09:46 PM, said:

Too funny Tom! I dug out my 900rr wheel today for a test fit too. Just painted it and will throw the 180 on my VFR rim on it. I'll use a 500 interceptor sprocket carrier that is on my F2 wheel. I had read this somewhere on line with good results. It's not as "robust" but it has been handling my R for some time now. It's shallow like the 600's but without the machining. I used the stock brake arm location on the frame with a fab'd brake arm attached to a 929 caliper. 9mm off set seems awfully big. I think i'll be hugging the tire and having less off set. I'll keep you guys posted.



rear brake

I used a 3.5mm thick spacer between a machined F2 hub and the swingarm...the rubber casting nubs brush the chain when I spin the wheel...should be about right. 12mm spacer between the right side of the wheel then the stock VF1000R brake carrier. May have to offset the sprocket slightly. Just for reference, I`m working on the VF1000F with a VF1000R swingarm so your mileage may vary. Eyeballed the wheel/tire to centerline, haven`t measured but looks darn close.

I hope we are adding info and not hijacking VFRcapn`s thread...?

[VF1000RS]

Kel, on Apr 6 2008, 09:09 PM, said:

I think he won't mind the info swap since it's all related. There was a reason I didn't use the stock R rear brake but I can't remember. I think it bottomed out on the CBR rotor not allowing the axle to pass through but I could be mistaken. Perhaps you're using a different caliper on the carrier? What reference are you using for center? I was using the hole in the cross member at the rear of the subframe. I'm guessing thats the center of the frame but...

I`m playing with this idea:



Little Nissin caliper I got from Japan. VF1000R caliper hanger/torque arm /swingarm , 5.5" wheel, my mockup of an adapter.

You are right Kelly, the stock R caliper won`t clear the CBR wheel.

I`m using the same bolt/hole you are referring to for center. Haven`t really measured anything yet, just eyeballing. Swapping back and forth between a bare frame and the complete VF1000F. Had to see what it would look like!

[vfrcapn]

No worries on the thread, great info. I'm using the same hole on the subframe to eyeball the wheel alignment. I did notch the underside of the seat to clear the RC shock, no more than a 1"x2" cutout and it's just grazing the foam underneath. After looking at how bad the seat looked though, I had to fix that up today.




Still have to stitch up the rear strap.

[VF1000RS]

Don`t worry about the tire/chain clearance. You have plenty. When I did the Mutant I think I could get 3 sheets of paper in between the Dunlop D207(a notoriously wide 180, more like 190 something) and the chain. Never touched and I used it until I put a D208 on it. The D208 was significantly narrower than the 207 and this Michelin Pilot Power is the same way. Probably a true 180mm tire.

[vfrcapn]

Well, that other thread got killed so this is a repost:

This VF1000F bike popped up on Craigslist for around a hundred bucks so, having a small spot left in the garage I brought it home. Missing just a few things that my R project will donate to complete it, wheels, carbs, clutch. Main thing is I need to find an exhaust header for it. I'm hoping it all bolts together and runs, not planning any mods. I may not even clean it.

[VF1000RS]

Just a heads up on the RC51 shock, the spring will need to be changed. Mounted mine up to check the bracket I designed and fitment, etc and it is definitely too soft. I have a VFR spring that may swap, or a different shock. Looks good otherwise though.

[vfrcapn]

VF1000RS, on May 1 2008, 09:31 PM, said:

Just a heads up on the RC51 shock, the spring will need to be changed. Mounted mine up to check the bracket I designed and fitment, etc and it is definitely too soft. I have a VFR spring that may swap, or a different shock. Looks good otherwise though.

Thanks for the feedback, I suspected the spring may be too soft. I've been keeping an eye open for something aftermarket like an Ohlins. My VFR spring (5G) looks like it's about 1/2" longer than the RC so it may squeeze in. Also looking at other shocks like from BMW's that have the u-shaped lower clevis.

Bike looks good, did you use the SP1 shock with the reservoir pointed back and up? And, were you able to squeeze in the crankcase breather tank or did you just remove it?

[VF1000RS]

vfrcapn, on May 2 2008, 02:20 PM, said:

Thanks for the feedback, I suspected the spring may be too soft. I've been keeping an eye open for something aftermarket like an Ohlins. My VFR spring (5G) looks like it's about 1/2" longer than the RC so it may squeeze in. Also looking at other shocks like from BMW's that have the u-shaped lower clevis.

Bike looks good, did you use the SP1 shock with the reservoir pointed back and up? And, were you able to squeeze in the crankcase breather tank or did you just remove it?

Thanks, still very much a work in progress.
I pointed the reservoir up and back, yes. I haven`t tried to mount the breather, but I`m pretty sure it won`t fit. I may just block off the breather that returns to the airbox and do something smaller for the crankcase breather. Did something similar on my Mutant R with a T and a small K&N. I have a 94-97 VFR shock here I`m about to compare to the RC length and also a VFR800 shock which is about 1/2 inch longer than the 94-97 shock. I suspect the 94-97 spring will be closer......just have to drop the swingarm......again....

Nope, 94-97 spring is too short. VFR800 spring is approx 3/16" longer. If I continue this route, I`ll try the VFR800 spring in the RC shock after some more measurements, if that isn`t possible.....stiffer spring for the RC shock?

This post has been edited by VF1000RS: 02 May 2008 - 07:39 PM

[VF1000RS]

Well, today I decided to cut my losses on the RC51 shock. Would have had to order a new stiffer spring and then had it revalved. Add that to the cost of the custom clevis I designed and had machined up and I could have had a custom shock built....which I ordered up from Works Performance today. Guess when you blaze trails, you leave ashes...

In hindsight, I probably should have sent my VFR800 shock to Jaimie for some of his longer clevis adapters...maybe next time.

On a more positve note, I got the RC51 front end installed last night after the rebuild. No surprises, just what I expected; stock 929 bars are no way going to work, nor are the 929 Helibars I have acceptable for this F project. They would work on an R, but I decided to go for a riser top triple from ISL. Pricey, but the risers are built-in since it`s all machined from one piece, unlike another set of risers which look crappy bolt on crap(to me), or a couple other muti-adjustable bars which would interfere with the F`s bodywork/fairing. This way, I can put on a set of Daytona tube bars, or any other bar I like.

[Veefer800Canuck]

vfrcapn, on May 6 2008, 12:52 AM, said:

I still need to work out bars for my R. I've got 954 and RC clip ons, I'm hoping the 954 will work on top of the triple. I really like the Cyclecat clipons I have on my VFR..well cr@p, i just checked their site and it looks like Cyclecat is out of business...

Clicken sie linky heir: http://www.oncycles.com/preorder/

[Kel]

I still need to work out bars for my R. I've got 954 and RC clip ons, I'm hoping the 954 will work on top of the triple. I really like the Cyclecat clipons I have on my VFR..well cr@p, i just checked their site and it looks like Cyclecat is out of business...
[/quote]


You can forget about the bars on top. You would have to push the forks up WAY too much. Even with the CBR upper, the forks are still too short in my book. Here's what I did. The 51 lower as an upper allows the forks to ride nice and low. BUT...because it is a lower, the ID is larger than a true upper.(the forks taper towards the top.) I had a bent fork that I used to make some spacers. I had the insides machined to go over the forks while the tops remained the right OD for the clipons. Since the new upper is SOOO beefy, I can have the lower pinch bolt grab the fork( still larger than a 51 upper pinch point) and have the upper pinch the spacer. Bingo, clipon goes right on. I originally thought that I would need the 929 bar to get me up near stock reach but I'm actually HIGHER. It's like a damn riser now! It's too high so I need to find some 51 bars instead. I thought I would like the easier reach but it just looks too funny. I think I can use the mounting points that were originally for the brake lines to attach the idiot lights. The ignition will go where ever. I'm thinking of going keyless somehow anyway.

upper

[vfrcapn]

VF1000RS, on May 5 2008, 03:48 PM, said:

Well, today I decided to cut my losses on the RC51 shock. Would have had to order a new stiffer spring and then had it revalved. Add that to the cost of the custom clevis I designed and had machined up and I could have had a custom shock built....which I ordered up from Works Performance today. Guess when you blaze trails, you leave ashes...

In hindsight, I probably should have sent my VFR800 shock to Jaimie for some of his longer clevis adapters...maybe next time.

Thomas, I dropped my VFR and RC shock off today at the local suspension shop to have them move the RC lower mount to the VFR shock ('99). They're an Ohlins, Penske service facility ( http://www.naake.com ) so he wasn't positive it was an easy switch with the Showa's but he promised to let me know in a day or two, and just looking at it he didn't think it would be a problem. They have the same shaft size and same spring OD. Will post the results.

Also got my VFKR triple back from the machine shop. Bushing machined and pushed in to the triple with the VFKR steering stem pressed in and welded up. He made sure to keep the same exposed length on the stem, 260mm. I sure wish I could tig like this.

[VF1000RS]

vfrcapn, on May 9 2008, 10:19 PM, said:

Thomas, I dropped my VFR and RC shock off today at the local suspension shop to have them move the RC lower mount to the VFR shock ('99). They're an Ohlins, Penske service facility ( http://www.naake.com ) so he wasn't positive it was an easy switch with the Showa's but he promised to let me know in a day or two, and just looking at it he didn't think it would be a problem. They have the same shaft size and same spring OD. Will post the results.

Also got my VFKR triple back from the machine shop. Bushing machined and pushed in to the triple with the VFKR steering stem pressed in and welded up. He made sure to keep the same exposed length on the stem, 260mm. I sure wish I could tig like this.

Looks very familiar! Nice work! I ground down the steering stop nubs and the casting mark on the triple for a cleaner look. Then went over the whole thing with Scotchbrite for a smooth but not too blingy look. I suppose it could be polished.

Let me know how the shock turns out. Looks like you have a nice resource close to you.

Also, got my LSL 929 top triple from Spiegler today and couldn`t hold out, had to see what it may look like. I reversed the mounts on top of the clamp to get more toward the center of the triple. The other way they are closer to the gas tank. Mounted a set of black Daytona bars to get a feel for it.(note that this is just a mockup as the bolts aren`t completely in,etc.)



One from the side:(LSL top triple and Daytona bars)Gives it a bit of old school Superbike I think. Think I`ll go this route on this bike since I`ve already got the low bar R.



Stock 929 top triple and Heli-bars(this would require chopping or grinding the fairing for full swing of the bars and also not clear the stock throttle cables or 929 throttle cables):



I won`t show a pic of the stock 929 bars as there probably isn`t enough room to even put a set of grips on the F, although they or the Heli-bars would be a good option for the R I think.

This post has been edited by VF1000RS: 10 May 2008 - 09:27 AM

[JamieDaugherty]

Kel, on May 6 2008, 07:44 PM, said:

I still need to work out bars for my R. I've got 954 and RC clip ons, I'm hoping the 954 will work on top of the triple. I really like the Cyclecat clipons I have on my VFR..well cr@p, i just checked their site and it looks like Cyclecat is out of business... :mad:



You can forget about the bars on top. You would have to push the forks up WAY too much. Even with the CBR upper, the forks are still too short in my book. Here's what I did. The 51 lower as an upper allows the forks to ride nice and low. BUT...because it is a lower, the ID is larger than a true upper.(the forks taper towards the top.) I had a bent fork that I used to make some spacers. I had the insides machined to go over the forks while the tops remained the right OD for the clipons. Since the new upper is SOOO beefy, I can have the lower pinch bolt grab the fork( still larger than a 51 upper pinch point) and have the upper pinch the spacer. Bingo, clipon goes right on. I originally thought that I would need the 929 bar to get me up near stock reach but I'm actually HIGHER. It's like a damn riser now! It's too high so I need to find some 51 bars instead. I thought I would like the easier reach but it just looks too funny. I think I can use the mounting points that were originally for the brake lines to attach the idiot lights. The ignition will go where ever. I'm thinking of going keyless somehow anyway.

upper

This is nice work. The idea is similar to what I'm doing with the GSXR750 forks on my SuperHawk right now. Most inverted forks attach the clip-ons under the triple clamp but tank/bodywork constraints don't allow this. I've made similar extended fork caps so that I can attach the original VTR clip-ons to the GSXR forks and have them in the same location s stock. Luckily the GSXR forks are approximately the same length as the VTR's. I like how you've addressed this by making the caps longer so that you can mount the forks lower in the triples. Good job!

[Kel]

This is nice work. The idea is similar to what I'm doing with the GSXR750 forks on my SuperHawk right now. Most inverted forks attach the clip-ons under the triple clamp but tank/bodywork constraints don't allow this. I've made similar extended fork caps so that I can attach the original VTR clip-ons to the GSXR forks and have them in the same location s stock. Luckily the GSXR forks are approximately the same length as the VTR's. I like how you've addressed this by making the caps longer so that you can mount the forks lower in the triples. Good job!
[/quote]


Thanks Jamie. I've seen your own uppers for the VF's and they are quite nice. This came out well. Yea, the top of the forks are half way up in the upper, giving me a nice drop while still remaining "secure". Not bad for $50! I don't have the resources to design and fab from scratch my own uppers but I KNEW I could turn this one into something useful and that really is where I get my most enjoyment. I think I'm real close on stock stance. Maybe someone can shoot me a measurement of stock stance. The only draw back is wheel lock. I feel it's going to be a 6 point turn out of the garage!



"If I were you, I'd eventually paint it, and plug the two threaded holes with a couple of allen head bolts.


Not that that would actually DO anything, other than filling the holes..........."


It is painted and the holes are spoken for.

[vfrcapn]

SEBSPEED, on May 11 2008, 05:27 PM, said:

How 'bout some updated pics then?

I can give some pics of my VfKf. I wanted to have this running within 3 weeks after getting it, that would have been last Friday. Oh well, it's close.

I got the motor mounted properly and removed the suspenders that were holding it in the frame, they didn't seem to be Honda OEM items. Entire wiring harness was reinstalled along with almost everything else. Most parts, not in the boxes, were held on by loose bolts - I still need to go back through front to back and check everything.

Major items missing where I didn't have spares from my R project were the lower rad and complete exhaust system. I got lucky when the rad popped up on eBay, along with the fans, and the seller had the exhaust in stock. Exhaust had one minor hole that my local exhaust shop fixed up in under a minute.

I made the mistake of opening the fuel bowls on the R carbs I was going to use and found the same sludgy varnish that is inside the R's tank. So carbs were completely torn down, cleaned and put back. One carb body was cracked so I had to graft in an F carb body. The original carbs from the F were extremely corroded and trashed but the body itself was still useful.

The F forks were also corroded along with the front wheel & brakes, so I used the R forks, wheels and brakes. The forks were broken down, the lowers blasted and painted black to match the originals. The bike didn't have a rear wheel so it made sense to use the R's, I mounted the R swingarm and rear under-axle caliper. The F front fender has a different mount/fork brace so the R's had to be modded to fit the fender.

New fuel lines, chain, BT45 tires, spark plugs. Valve adjustment done. Still need some mirrors, seat needs recovering, bleed all the brakes and clutch, coolant, oil and fuel. It will get a good cleaning and maybe some new body panels if I can find them. And the carbs need syncing....

[vfrcapn]

JamieDaugherty, on May 12 2008, 04:19 AM, said:

vfrcapn, on May 12 2008, 02:44 AM, said:

It will get a good cleaning and maybe some new body panels if I can find them.

Why? The bodywork on that bike looks pretty darn good in the pictures.

The clear coat is peeling, the tabs on the side panels are gone and the front is cracked around the headlight, plus all the parts have spider web cracking throughout the paint. It's serviceable though.

The motor started right up, after I determined the fuel pump was dead, and settled immediately in to a nice idle. Jamie, do you route the fuel lines any particular way to gravity feed the bike? Do you run an inline fuel filter?

After a couple minutes I noticed a slow oil leak which I traced to this:

The front left motor mount/case is cracked. It looks like someone tried to repair it previously. Has anyone seen this before? I wonder if I can get away with some JBWeld...

[magellan]

SEBSPEED, on May 13 2008, 09:20 AM, said:

vfrcapn, on May 13 2008, 12:09 PM, said:

SEBSPEED, on May 13 2008, 08:48 AM, said:

Not an easy job to weld, the parts will need to be clean and preheated. Then there is still the fact that it's cast. It's doable, but will not be quick & easy. Might not be cheap either.

I wonder if it can be done in the bike? Or are we talking about a tear down to the bare case? If the header, filter and maybe frame rail are removed I think there's room to weld it, I don't know how clean you can get it.

Yes, to do it right, you would need to pull the motor and tear it down. I wouldn't trust the weld if I couldn't have a bare, clean part in my hands as a welder.

Cast aluminum has millions of tiny(sometimes not so tiny!) air pockets. The second you start an arc on it, the material starts to melt away(it has to for weld penetration), and the air bubbles out, creating new ones at the same time. this leads to a loss of structural integrity in both the new weld, and the area around it. In reality, the area immediately around the new weld will crack before the weld does.

I've seen this stuff in use, and it's pretty damn amazing. I would absolutely try it if it was my bike. The worst that can happen is it cracks out again and you have to pull it apart for TIG. You can get it cheaper on ePay. Just scroll down and select qty. You will still need to use solvent and a metal detailing brush to get the area really clean before brazing. I'd also rough up the surface as much as possible with sandpaper to assure a good bond.

[vfrcapn]

So, can this be welded? After removing the silicon and other goop there wasn't much holding it there...

[magellan]

vfrcapn, on May 14 2008, 10:50 PM, said:

Oooo, gnarly. Did Honda farm out work to Kawasaki during the 80's or what?

I know I'm going to take all kinds of heat for this, but I stand by my earlier suggestion. Clean it, mount it, and use the aluminum brazing rod. When I saw the stuff demonstrated at the Seattle MC show, the guy brazed a glob on a piece of cast aluminum can and then pounded on the glob with a hammer to show how strong it was. It didn't separate, crack or do anything but deform a bit from the hammer blows. Incidentally, a broken case from an old Norton or something was on display, repaired with the brazing rod and polished out beautifully.

Why not try it?

[vfrcapn]

magellan, on May 15 2008, 02:13 PM, said:

Oooo, gnarly. Did Honda farm out work to Kawasaki during the 80's or what?

I know I'm going to take all kinds of heat for this, but I stand by my earlier suggestion. Clean it, mount it, and use the aluminum brazing rod. When I saw the stuff demonstrated at the Seattle MC show, the guy brazed a glob on a piece of cast aluminum can and then pounded on the glob with a hammer to show how strong it was. It didn't separate, crack or do anything but deform a bit from the hammer blows. Incidentally, a broken case from an old Norton or something was on display, repaired with the brazing rod and polished out beautifully.

Why not try it?

Yes, the whole casting in this area seems pretty light considering there are only two forward mounts, the weight of the motor, etc..

I saw the stuff demo'd at a woodworkers show and was pretty impressed. I'm also getting a suggestion from a friend to just JBWeld it back in place. My concern is that if either of those approaches don't work it may not be able to be welded after the metal has been contaminated. I want to give my local mc machinist/welder a shot at it first. If he won't or can't weld it (in the bike) I'm leaning towards trying the brazing. It sounds like you have to apply quite a lot of heat to get it to flow, also not sure about using it at that downward angle - I assume it must flow the same way as sweating a copper pipe..