Jump to content


Photo

RVF800RR Build


  • Please log in to reply
220 replies to this topic

#211 PishvaianRider

PishvaianRider

    Factory Team Rider

  • Members
  • PipPipPip
  • 169 posts
  • Location:Baltimore Maryland
  • In My Garage::2003 Honda RVT1000R
    1998 Honda VFR800
    2009 Yamaha FZ6
    2005 Suzuki SV650 - SOLD

Posted 02 December 2013 - 11:31 AM

Ahhh I just wrote out this long explanation then the computer at school signed me out :( haha okay here I go again . . . Thanks everyone for the kind comments. So how it all works . . . 

 

It starts at the countershaft. Christini welds a secondary sprocket onto the OEM front sprocket, I'm not a fan of this idea which is why I'm looking into making (or having made) a custom countershaft:

 

2009-Christini-KTM-300-XC-24_zps1c22b829

 

^^See the need for a modified/custom VFR Clutch Slave Cylinder anybody?? can't have the clutch line-in protruding right over/around the secondary sprocket!

 

That new sprocket drives a chain up around/under the gas tank:

 

nocover-goldchain_zps4eae2bce.jpeg

 

The sprocket under the gas tank drives a gear box that transfers the power through a shaft up to the front of the frame:

 

frame-top_zpsc657bfa4.jpg

 

The drive-shaft ends in the head tube ( I believe this is the correct term? head tube, or neck tube? Wherever the triple tree pivots). Inside of the head tube there are three gears, looks a bit like a differential:

 

146-1106-01-zelectric-superbikechristini

 

Then from there, power is transferred into the lower triple, through two chains, then into two shafts that run down and in front of the forks:

 

146-1106-06-zelectric-superbikechristini

 

christini-2_485x362_zps8ef7ac18.jpg

 

Then power is sent into the axle clamps, through a few gears in each individual axle clamp, then into the hub. Now what happens from there is still not clear to me. I have to disassemble the supplied hub for a wire-rimmed dirt bike wheel. I know that there is a sprague clutch/bearing in the hub (one way clutch/bearing), but what I'm not sure of is if its just pressed in without any further way of securing it to the hub and therefore adequately transferring power. Clearly Mr. Christini has had great success with it, so I won't question his design, I just won't understand if it is only pressed in. I would guess (admittedly, a bit ignorantly) that at full rotational power (70 ft-lbs of torque) that a pressed in bearing that doesn't free-spin in the forward direction would slip? but maybe not . . . 

 

146-1106-05-zelectric-superbikeshafts_zp

 

141_0711_02_zchristini_crf250xdropouts_z

 

Now some videos, here are a few good videos that explain the kit and how it works:

 

 

And here are a few good videos of the off-road christini kit in action!

 

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VfBXlWS94AM

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ea2j2gfs_z4

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TE14nCmZzh4

 

CatiePotatie hopefully that explains it all! Pictures to come will be of Christini AWD parts, and custom AWD parts that will be going on the RVF :) Exciting stuff! Thanks again for the kind comments guys!


Edited by PishvaianRider, 02 December 2013 - 11:40 AM.


#212 Veefer800Canuck

Veefer800Canuck

    FrankenOwner

  • Forum Moderator
  • 12547 posts
  • Location:Whitecourt, Alberta, Canada, Eh?
  • In My Garage::2010 Honda GL800RR-SP2
    Back in business baby!

Posted 02 December 2013 - 12:15 PM

That's a lot of complexity, chains to lube, and slop in the system due to tolerance stacking.

Didn't Yamaha have a hydraulic 2wd dirtbike system awhile back????
YuuuuuuuuuuuuuP!

http://www.mcnews.co...2trac/page1.htm


And more to the point of our little tale here, they also did a 2wd R-1 with hydraulic front drive:

http://www.motorcycl...2WD-Review.aspx

visitedstatesmap_zps9f9adb24.jpggallery_554_345_407.jpg gallery_491_6304_9032.png gallery_554_345_655.gif gallery_491_3_2414.png


We strongly recommend that you use only genuine Honda accessories that have been specifically designed and tested for your motorcycle. We strongly advise you not to remove any original equipment or modify your motorcycle in any way that would change its design or operation. Such changes could seriously impair your motorcycles handling, stability and braking, making it unsafe to ride.


#213 PishvaianRider

PishvaianRider

    Factory Team Rider

  • Members
  • PipPipPip
  • 169 posts
  • Location:Baltimore Maryland
  • In My Garage::2003 Honda RVT1000R
    1998 Honda VFR800
    2009 Yamaha FZ6
    2005 Suzuki SV650 - SOLD

Posted 02 December 2013 - 01:01 PM

Yes they absolutely did! I remember doing a lot of reading when each of those came out. One of the articles I read about the setup, on the R1 I believe, said that there was a lot of power loss in the system. I'll have to find that article, and read through the two you posted, to see if I can find that information again. 

 

Now compared to the WR450 and R1 2WD setup, Christini's kit is more complex, but it still seemed like a better option (for me at least) than trying to make a hydraulic setup work on the VFR. I think the only chain that will regularly require lubing is the one running up the side of the bike. Everything else is relatively enclosed and won't need it as often. I don't even consider the hydraulic system as an option simply because there aren't really any bikes or kits on the market, and for a college student with very low income, I don't have the money to buy and test all kinds of parts and designs, then end up with a few expensive parts on the shelf because one way didn't work. The Christini kit is already here, being produced, and it is modify-able! Something I can alter, and something I know how to alter to fit my application. 

 

One day I want to design and build a two wheel drive motorcycle that has a swingarm front and rear! Reading I've done and conversations I've had with engineers and some serious riders have led me to believe that swingarms (in the front, think Bimota) are far superior to forks.  Anyways, when I was planning this project I was looking to do something different. I cannot yet build my own engine, although I hope to one day, so I chose one of my favorite engines, and am building around that. Hopefully it comes out nice and I'll learn a lot to apply to the next project!! :)

 

edit: Here's one of the articles that I read about power loss, Christini AWD vs. Yamaha 2WD: http://www.gizmag.com/go/7849/ I'll see if I can find a few more later . . . 


Edited by PishvaianRider, 02 December 2013 - 01:04 PM.


#214 CatiePotatie

CatiePotatie

    Movisturrr

  • Members
  • PipPipPip
  • 116 posts
  • Location:Brisbane, AUS
  • In My Garage::'00 VFR800fiY

Posted 02 December 2013 - 01:52 PM

Wow, yeah that is complex.. but at least the power delivery through turning handlebars makes sense now.

 

Previously the only one I'd seen had a weird looking swingarm at the front.. kind of like the Bimota Tesi but I think it was a custom job as that one just seems to be rear drive

 

 

Very interested to see progress now  :goofy:


~Caitlyn   -   '00 5th Gen, Movistar edition. 

AKubsWm.jpg


#215 PishvaianRider

PishvaianRider

    Factory Team Rider

  • Members
  • PipPipPip
  • 169 posts
  • Location:Baltimore Maryland
  • In My Garage::2003 Honda RVT1000R
    1998 Honda VFR800
    2009 Yamaha FZ6
    2005 Suzuki SV650 - SOLD

Posted 02 December 2013 - 09:43 PM

CatiePotatie

 

I know one guy made a rendering of a pretty cool bike with a swingarm front and rear that was two wheel drive. Other than that I only know of ohlins' two bikes, christini, and this one: http://newtechdev.com/awd.html



#216 PishvaianRider

PishvaianRider

    Factory Team Rider

  • Members
  • PipPipPip
  • 169 posts
  • Location:Baltimore Maryland
  • In My Garage::2003 Honda RVT1000R
    1998 Honda VFR800
    2009 Yamaha FZ6
    2005 Suzuki SV650 - SOLD

Posted 05 December 2013 - 11:39 PM

So I've started working on the hubs. I have to press out the sprag bearings, and I didn't want to do it with a standard punch, so I spent a few hours today making an expanding "punch" so that I don't mess things up. 

 

I would love some opinions on wheels!

 

In planning what rim/hub to use for the street, I've contacted the owner of the RSD/Christini Super Single 450 and he has been very kind and helpful. He suggested using custom three piece rims, such as the ones from Performance Machine that would allow me to use a custom hub that accepts the Christini sprag clutch:

 

gold-assault-wheel-lg.png

bike-sm.png

 

Or stick with wire rims?

 

106336d1330728912-wire-wheels-hyper-chec

 

These would make things considerably cheaper, but heavier. With this project, weight is somewhat of a consideration, and is definitely higher on the list than looks. So my initial feeling is to go for the more expensive :( PM wheels . . . we'll see



#217 apexandy

apexandy

    World Superbike Racer

  • Forum Contributor
  • 372 posts
  • Location:Armstrong BC
  • In My Garage::95 VFR-SF

Posted 06 December 2013 - 12:29 AM

This is a very neat project :) I very much appreciate the engineering and can understand why you have the desire to put the AWD system on the VFR. I will watch this thread no matter what and enjoy your work on the VFR, however I wonder if the VFR is a very good application at all for the system. I suppose at high lean angles the system would theoretically provide more traction for acceleration, but I'm having a hard time seeing any other advantage on a VFR. I haven't looked into it that much, so my knowledge is limited but wonder if installing the system on a different bike (offroad, supermoto, higher horsepower) would provide you with a larger reward and bigger transformation for all your hard work? If it's mainly for the engineering challenge and fun of the process then I completely understand that too :) 

 

As for your desire to make a "forkless" bike someday have you seen this guy's posts of custom fighters? http://www.customfig...ead.php?t=62571



#218 Switchblade

Switchblade

    If I'm even I'm leaven

  • Forum Contributor
  • 8854 posts
  • Location:louisville,TN.
  • In My Garage::2003 VFR And 89 5.0 Mustang

Posted 06 December 2013 - 05:44 AM

This is a very neat project :) I very much appreciate the engineering and can understand why you have the desire to put the AWD system on the VFR. I will watch this thread no matter what and enjoy your work on the VFR, however I wonder if the VFR is a very good application at all for the system. I suppose at high lean angles the system would theoretically provide more traction for acceleration, but I'm having a hard time seeing any other advantage on a VFR. I haven't looked into it that much, so my knowledge is limited but wonder if installing the system on a different bike (offroad, supermoto, higher horsepower) would provide you with a larger reward and bigger transformation for all your hard work? If it's mainly for the engineering challenge and fun of the process then I completely understand that too :) 

 

As for your desire to make a "forkless" bike someday have you seen this guy's posts of custom fighters? http://www.customfig...ead.php?t=62571

Here's  the  flicker link

 

http://api.viglink.c..._13863266480229


sml_gallery_491_6304_611.pngsml_gallery_491_6304_11207.jpgsml_gallery_491_6304_13088.jpgsml_gallery_491_6304_1801.png  gallery_4979_2505_2664.jpg     gallery_491_3_2414.png tn_gallery_301_3_4689.png

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Daugherty Motorsport  Performance Suspension  Front  and Rear,  Stator & SH775 RR, Throttlemeister,Sargent, Modified Exhaust,Mag-Knight Tank Protector, ASV Levers, A&A Pair Valve Block Off Plates. Galfer full of set  S.S. lines. PiperCross Airfilter. 


#219 Kel

Kel

    Race Team Owner

  • Forum Contributor
  • 1442 posts
  • Location:NH
  • In My Garage::'85 VF1000R x3
    '86 VF1000R
    '84 VF1000F x2
    '80 CB400T

Posted 06 December 2013 - 07:17 AM

. I suppose at high lean angles the system would theoretically provide more traction for acceleration, but I'm having a hard time seeing any other advantage on a VFR. I haven't looked into it that much, so my knowledge is limited but wonder if installing the system on a different bike (offroad, supermoto, higher horsepower) would provide you with a larger reward and bigger transformation for all your hard work? If it's mainly for the engineering challenge and fun of the process then I completely understand that too :) 

 

 

I guess I'm in the same boat. It seems the advantage would be more apparent in the dirt. The R1 seemed to benefit in knee dragging scenarios but that's a very small percentage of street  riding. I came late to the party so maybe this is a race bike?

What is the offset of the triples? Are you stuck with the leading axle for the front. Magna's and Sabre's and other cruisers have a leading axle but you won't find one on any well handling sportbike. What trail numbers will you end up with? I'd hate to see you go backwards in handling for a slight advantage to 1% of street riding where the front end wants to tuck.

 

Having said that, I love the passion for wanting something totally different and I'm envious of the tech skills to see it through. Hope all your hurdles are cleared. :fing02:



#220 DucatiTerminator

DucatiTerminator

    On two

  • Forum Contributor
  • 356 posts
  • Location:Southern California
  • In My Garage::1986 Honda VFR700FII Interceptor
    1987 Ditto
    A few others

Posted 06 December 2013 - 08:21 AM

So I've started working on the hubs. I have to press out the sprag bearings, and I didn't want to do it with a standard punch, so I spent a few hours today making an expanding "punch" so that I don't mess things up. 

 

I would love some opinions on wheels!

 

In planning what rim/hub to use for the street, I've contacted the owner of the RSD/Christini Super Single 450 and he has been very kind and helpful. He suggested using custom three piece rims, such as the ones from Performance Machine that would allow me to use a custom hub that accepts the Christini sprag clutch:

 

gold-assault-wheel-lg.png

bike-sm.png

 

Or stick with wire rims?

 

106336d1330728912-wire-wheels-hyper-chec

 

These would make things considerably cheaper, but heavier. With this project, weight is somewhat of a consideration, and is definitely higher on the list than looks. So my initial feeling is to go for the more expensive :( PM wheels . . . we'll see

Those look like Alpina wheels. If so, they are not cheaper than Performance Machine.






swallowtailed
swallowtailed
swallowtailed
swallowtailed