51 replies to this topic

[Monk]

I noticed on the new apps thread there is an app for finding non-ethanol fuel in local areas(if there are any to be found).

As it stands now there are very few left and "those ppl that do what they do" are in the process of trying to go to E15 which hasn't happened yet(with the help of the AMA).

So I didn't want to get off topic in the apps thread (which I can see when a interesting app is brought up, the potential to get side tracked on the off spring of what the apps for can be tempting).

That being said, I think it would be nice to locate pure gas, but that's very limited to find even with the help of the app. So what can we do in the mean time. I use an additive in the gas to help lub the fuel system to retard the effects of the drying effects of the ethanol. There may be more products that do this but I just use one I feel works. Octane boost is not it.

I'm not getting anything from this stuff, And I couldn't sware it works, but it's suppose to lub the top end where the gas is used. I do know my older Jeep runs smoother using it, and my lawnmower. As far as the bike it's such a powerful engine that it's hard to see the difference, but I believe it helps.

"Marvel Mystery Oil"

[spud786]

Two words Leaded Race fuel, it offers Real results, completely decarbonises, Piston crowns, Valves , exhaust o2 sensors , Cat , tail pipes, lubricates fuel pumps and valve seat. cylinder walls ect . Cup or 2 pertank.

[Chuckster]

Monk, do you use Marvel all the time/every tank full? If so, how much do you use per gallon? I use an ounce of Seafoam/gal regularly. Not sure if it helps with the E10 issue or not though.

Chuck

[Veefer800Canuck]

Two words Leaded Race fuel, it offers Real results, completely decarbonises, Piston crowns, Valves , exhaust o2 sensors , Cat , tail pipes, lubricates fuel pumps and valve seat. cylinder walls ect . Cup or 2 pertank.

Leaded fuel poisons Catalytic Converters:

http://en.wikipedia....onverter#Damage

Not good for O2 sensors either:

http://en.wikipedia....i/Oxygen_sensor


The materials in modern fuel injected vehicles are meant to withstand Ethanol in gasolines without any worries.

There is less thermal energy in Ethanol, so horsepower will suffer slightly, but there should not be any damage.

I have been running Ethanol blended fuel in my 800 ever since I bought it, 12 years and 80,000 kilometers ago, with no ill effects to the fuel injection system or engine itself.

[YoshiHNS]

The difference between pure gas and E10 in my 4th gen was going from 50mpg easy to maybe 42mpg. Haven't had any running issues though.

[Veefer800Canuck]

There is approximately 33% less energy in a gallon of ethanol Vs a gallon of gasoline.

All else being equal, identical vehicles running on Ethanol Vs gas would expect to see about a 1/3 reduction in fuel economy.

However, all else is NOT equal. Vehicles designed for ethanol (the new flex-fuel types) use higher compression ratios and more ignition advance, as ethanol has a higher octane rating than gasoline. Also the ECU in a flex-fuel vehicle compensates for the type of fuel being used via the air/fuel ratios and knock sensors, constantly adjusting the engine parameters to utilize the type of fuel in the tank most efficiently.

With E10, one would expect only about a 3-4% reduction in BTU/gallon over regular gasoline. Therefore the fuel economy on a non-flex fuel vehicle would likely suffer a similar amount, given similar driving habits.

[Veefer800Canuck]

Fuel economy
In theory, all fuel-driven vehicles have a fuel economy (measured as miles per US gallon, or liters per 100 km) that is directly proportional to the fuel's energy content.^[54] In reality, there are many other variables that come into play that affect the performance of a particular fuel in a particular engine. Ethanol contains approx. 34% less energy per unit volume than gasoline, and therefore in theory, burning pure ethanol in a vehicle will result in a 34% reduction in miles per US gallon, given the same fuel economy, compared to burning pure gasoline. Since ethanol has a higher octane rating, the engine can be made more efficient by raising its compression ratio. In fact using a variable turbocharger, the compression ratio can be optimized for the fuel being used, making fuel economy almost constant for any blend.^[25][26] For E10 (10% ethanol and 90% gasoline), the effect is small (~3%) when compared to conventional gasoline,^[55] and even smaller (1-2%) when compared to oxygenated and reformulated blends.^[56] For E85 (85% ethanol), the effect becomes significant. E85 will produce lower mileage than gasoline, and will require more frequent refueling. Actual performance may vary depending on the vehicle. Based on EPA tests for all 2006 E85 models, the average fuel economy for E85 vehicles resulted 25.56% lower than unleaded gasoline.^[57] The EPA-rated mileage of current USA flex-fuel vehicles^[58] should be considered when making price comparisons, but E85 is a high performance fuel, with an octane rating of about 94-96, and should be compared to premium.^[59] In one estimate^[60] the US retail price for E85 ethanol is 2.62 US dollar per gallon or 3.71 dollar corrected for energy equivalency compared to a gallon of gasoline priced at 3.03 dollar. Brazilian cane ethanol (100%) is priced at 3.88 dollar against 4.91 dollar for E25 (as July 2007).

[NorthernVFRDave]

Monk, there are no E10 issues or even E15 issues to worry about with your bike.

The 6th gen VFR is CARB2012 compliant, and part of that certification is the ability to operate with fuels that have ethanol levels up to 15% without harming the engine or fuel system.

There was talked all winter on my snowmobile forum about ethanol fuels and 2stroke engines, so I've been doing a lot of reading in to the subject already.

The only thing you might see, is a small decrease in power, maybe a HP or two, and a few less miles per tank as the ethanol burns cleaner but doesn't have BTUs like good old dino based fuels.

And don't go kidding yourself thinking by putting premium fuel in your tank you'll get ethanol free fuel. Search the net, you'll find that to make premium fuel they add about 6% ethanol along with other additives to boost the octane number, so even if the pump says Ethanol free, their permium will have some in it. Oh premium fuel actually produces less power than good old 87 regular does. So if your running it your stock 800 your wasting your money and robbing yourself of power.

But don't take my word for read the truth for yourself.

http://www.roadandtr...um-fuel-futures

http://en.m.wikipedi...oline#section_3

The real reason for the push to E15 fuel is because Ethanol is an octane enhancer. This means they can mix it with lower quality less refined fuel yet still maintain the same octane levels. It's not the ethanol that is hard on your fuel system. It's the crap fuel they are mixing with it.

[GadiantonRob]

Ethanol, after its all added up, has no cost/performance/emissions/mileage advantage over straight gas. Unless your running forced induction, but that's a serperate subject.

I use a splash of StarTron in ever fill up. Low end is now much smoother and the bike runs great. Highly recommend.

[spud786]

Canook

Yeah Tell my 100,000 mile working Cat and 02 sensors, been using since a vfr Baby
You better find some better info.