[jsalty]

Hello, I have about 10,000 miles on this FRONT tire, tread still has good depth (AVON Storm). When I apply the front break I get a small vibration most of the time, i have (not lately) checked the front bearings and headset. I noticed today that my tire is worn strangely, every other patch is lower than the one before, this pattern is completely around the tire on one side (clutch side). the other side (throttle side) is worn completly even around the tire.

what causes this, do i have a problem i NEED to fix NOW?

thank you for any advice in advanced.

I have no problem tearing the bike apart myself. Just need to identify the problem.

I have attached a few pictures of my tire, this wear pattern was hard to capture with a camera, so i have outlined the low spots in red.

thank you again,
Jim

Please ask for pictures via email because i can't figure out how to post them here.

This post has been edited by jsalty: 23 December 2008 - 04:51 PM

[BaileyRock]

Hi Jim,

Sounds like just a bad/cupped tire to me, I would check the steering stem bearings for play but otherwise just time for a new tire IMO.
Several brands are know for cupping badly like Dunlop, BS and I've heard about a few Avon issues too.

Good luck and Happy Holidays!

ps try Michelin Pilot Road 2's

[jsalty]

Baileyrock, on Dec 23 2008, 04:55 PM, said:

Hi Jim,

Sounds like just a bad/cupped tire to me, I would check the steering stem bearings for play but otherwise just time for a new tire IMO.
Several brands are know for cupping badly like Dunlop, BS and I've heard about a few Avon issues too.

Good luck and Happy Holidays!

ps try Michelin Pilot Road 2's

if i only get 10k out of a front tire with the Avon brand, I will be trying the Michelin brand this time (hope they are good in rain, Florida rain).

i have checked the front wheel bearings and the steering stem just now, the check was pulling and tugging while the tire was off the ground looking for movement.

I Just don't want to place a new tire on and potentially place a band aid on a serious problem that will show its ugly head on my way to work in a curve with on coming traffic at 70mph. if this is a "normal" wear issue then i have no problem replacing the tire and riding on my way.

thank you for the input.

enjoy your holiday.

[jeremy556]

ONLY 10K out of a tire?!?

Replace the tire, cupping is the most popular cause for front end issues.

[Tightwad]

10K is a good run on a tire for the VFR, although front usually goes longer than rear (especially if you don't happen to live in areas that are mostly curves and thus use the other 75% of your tire). Some on here are lucky to get 2K miles on a tire, but they are generally pushing their bikes more than most of us.

[IntAceptor]

How many miles on the bike? It could be the wheel bearings are "getting" shot and not fully shot. You may find it hard to detect small movement but there may be enough to work the tire over.

If you really feel sporting, you could put a set of taper roller bearings in the head also. That would just about insure no further problems with tires or front end shake.

It was established with the ST1100 when it first came out in 1990 that a heavy bike (the VFR borderlines on heavy) should not have roller bearings in the steering head. If you detect a shimmy when decelerating from about 50 MPH down to 35-40, then the tire has fallen victim to cupping possibly from head bearings or wheel bearings.

[vfrrider17]

I see from your profile you have a 04. I doubt that the bearing went out in 4 years, but I'm just assuming.

Run your hand along the front tire and feel the profile. If it feels wavy, then your tire is cupped.

Also, for new tires, I would go with Pirelli's. They're the best, don't listen to the others.

PIRELLI CORSA III's!!!!!!!

[jsalty]

the tire is wavy on the clutch side only. The rear is needing changed at this mark too (10k miles) and this was not surprise, i just figured i would get twice the mileage out of the front than the rear like i have on other bikes. guess i am learning all over again.

I have 15k on her, would this mileage warrant replacing the head and wheel bearings? if i do this i might as well rebuild the forks too.

thank you,
Jim

[Tightwad]

jsalty, on Dec 23 2008, 04:47 PM, said:

the tire is wavy on the clutch side only. The rear is needing changed at this mark too (10k miles) and this was not surprise, i just figured i would get twice the mileage out of the front than the rear like i have on other bikes. guess i am learning all over again.

I have 15k on her, would this mileage warrant replacing the head and wheel bearings? if i do this i might as well rebuild the forks too.

thank you,
Jim

Lots of highway travel? Probably the crown of the road getting to you, as that will wear the tire more on the left side.

[BaileyRock]

jsalty, on Dec 23 2008, 04:47 PM, said:

the tire is wavy on the clutch side only. The rear is needing changed at this mark too (10k miles) and this was not surprise, i just figured i would get twice the mileage out of the front than the rear like i have on other bikes. guess i am learning all over again.

I have 15k on her, would this mileage warrant replacing the head and wheel bearings? if i do this i might as well rebuild the forks too.

thank you,
Jim

I have 65k on my 02 with the original head bearings and wheel bearings (but i do have two sets of wheels) and no cupping issues running Michelins. Of course I change tire frequently.
15 k is a fork oil replacement number.

I do plan on installing a set of taper roller bearings in this winter as Bob suggested.

[jsalty]

Mostly state highway and us highway travel, i can see the crown giving me problems, plus i like those left hand curves too.

if i do the oil i will do the head bearings too, Now can I get the tapered head bearings form the dealer or do i need to hit up the auto parts store and know what i want before i get there?

thanks again all.

Guess its time to ride my Kingpin for a few weeks while i tear the VFR apart, figures it in the winter when she needs maintenance. The kingpin is not much fun in cold weather as i freeze my backside off.

[jeremy556]

Unless you are doing a lot of hard landings from wheelies, you shouldn't need head bearings.

For tapered roller bearings, get them from All Ballz Racing. Most any dealer can order them as they are distributed by Tucker Rocky or one of the other large distributors.

[CitizenOfDreams]

jeremy556, on Dec 23 2008, 08:14 PM, said:

Unless you are doing a lot of hard landings from wheelies, you shouldn't need head bearings.

You are right, at 15K miles the steering bearings most likely just need adjustment. But if you are already taking the top plate off, and it's time to change the fork oil anyway... might as well go all the way and replace the bearings with high quality tapered ones. And wheel bearings too - mine were completely destroyed after 50K miles and 13 years, so his are probably half way bad at this point.

[jsalty]

I have ordered wheel bearings and will replace them on a precautionary basis when I replace the tire next week.
I have also ordered new tapered steering head bearings along with new seals and dust covers for the forks. she has 15k on her and the fork oil is recommended to be changed at 16k so in 2 weeks when i crack the 16k mark i will replace the ball bearings with the tapered ones. I ordered all this from All Balls website $77. preventive maintenance probably can't hurt.
Now I just need to settle on a set of tires.
The Avons were great but I think I will try something else this time.
NO intentional wheels for this kid on the VFR with bags. there are times when i go to pass that the front comes up for a few gears but not very high.

I do appreciate all the advice and help from this form.
Thank you,
Jim

[BaileyRock]

Michelin Pilot Road 2's!!!!
http://www.vfrdiscus...showtopic=42750

[jeremy556]

Certainly can't hurt to replace the steering bearings. I have been using the AllBallz tapered roller steering bearings (and their wheel bearings) for the last 50K miles in my VFR.

+1 on the Pilot Road2 (not the original Pilot Road), probably the best current ST tire available.

Oh yea, you will need a special Honda spanner tool to properly torque the steering bearings. Ask at any Honda parts counter and they should know what you are talking about, and/or search this site for the older threads on the subject, a few people made their own. Make sure not to over tighten your steering head, one member here snapped his frame by using Honda's torque spec, which is not what you want to use for the AllBallz.

[Pete McCrary]

jeremy556, on Dec 23 2008, 08:14 PM, said:

Unless you are doing a lot of hard landings from wheelies, you shouldn't need head bearings.

For tapered roller bearings, get them from All Ballz Racing. Most any dealer can order them as they are distributed by Tucker Rocky or one of the other large distributors.

+1 on the All Ballz tapered steering stem bearings!

[jsalty]

jeremy556, on Dec 24 2008, 11:53 AM, said:

Certainly can't hurt to replace the steering bearings. I have been using the AllBallz tapered roller steering bearings (and their wheel bearings) for the last 50K miles in my VFR.

+1 on the Pilot Road2 (not the original Pilot Road), probably the best current ST tire available.

Oh yea, you will need a special Honda spanner tool to properly torque the steering bearings. Ask at any Honda parts counter and they should know what you are talking about, and/or search this site for the older threads on the subject, a few people made their own. Make sure not to over tighten your steering head, one member here snapped his frame by using Honda's torque spec, which is not what you want to use for the AllBallz.

Thanks for the heads up, how tight should one make it? currently it's fairly easy to swing it back and forth with the tire off the ground. I am sure i can repeat that.

Does Honda sell the wrench? could it be in the tool kit on the bike? I will figure something out for the spanner wrench if i fail to find the correct one.

thanks again,
Jim

[HispanicSlammer]

Well most likely cupping just as BR said. If your worried about steering head bearings, just rock the bike back and forth with you sitting on it and the front brake applied and you should not hear a clunk in the steering column, this would indicate loose bearings or too much play. You would also hear it while comming to a stop.

Front wheel bearings are a bit more involved, you have to remove the wheel and feel the bearing with your fingers, should be smooth turning and should not have any play what-so-ever. OEM bearings are about $30 a set and not too difficult to replace, see the FAQ for wheel bearings, and the Featured Modificaitons section for a how to on replacing steering head bearings.

I am pretty sure its just a cupped tire - most common issue. Time for a new one 10k is more than most riders get!

[gr8vfr]

If you're getting 10K out of tires...

I am guessing that you never heard of Gobbler, Istachatta an Ozello.

[magicman]

jeremy556, on Dec 23 2008, 06:04 PM, said:

ONLY 10K out of a tire?!?

Replace the tire, cupping is the most popular cause for front end issues.

Hey, I've got just over 27,000KM on my Pilot Road front . It is worn evenly, and just at/below the wear bars in the center.

(27,000KM = 16,777Miles )

I'm putting a race take off on over the winter though... And I'll definitely be getting another PR or PR2 for the front once that take off is eaten (Unless I can get another $20 set of take offs ).

This post has been edited by magicman: 24 December 2008 - 03:00 PM

[Ryanme17]

IntAceptor, on Dec 23 2008, 05:16 PM, said:

How many miles on the bike? It could be the wheel bearings are "getting" shot and not fully shot. You may find it hard to detect small movement but there may be enough to work the tire over.

If you really feel sporting, you could put a set of taper roller bearings in the head also. That would just about insure no further problems with tires or front end shake.

It was established with the ST1100 when it first came out in 1990 that a heavy bike (the VFR borderlines on heavy) should not have roller bearings in the steering head. If you detect a shimmy when decelerating from about 50 MPH down to 35-40, then the tire has fallen victim to cupping possibly from head bearings or wheel bearings.

What are taper roller bearings?

[squirrelman]

-1 for alllballls brand!! they're cheepo low price and LOW quality

they're cheap Chinese crap; quality bearings are made ONLY in USA, Japan, or Germany

[jeremy556]

Ryanme17, on Dec 24 2008, 07:37 PM, said:

What are taper roller bearings?

Ball Bearings:

Roller bearings:

One uses steel balls, the other uses steel cylinders.

[jeremy556]

squirrelman, on Dec 24 2008, 08:30 PM, said:

-1 for alllballls brand!! they're cheepo low price and LOW quality

they're cheap Chinese crap; quality bearings are made ONLY in USA, Japan, or Germany

Then who do you recommend?

[CitizenOfDreams]

Ball bearings use balls. Regular roller bearings use cylindrical rollers. Tapered bearings use rollers that look like truncated cones.

[CitizenOfDreams]

squirrelman, on Dec 24 2008, 08:30 PM, said:

quality bearings are made ONLY in USA, Japan, or Germany

1. You forgot Sweden (SKF, the largest bearing manufacturer in the world).
2. What keeps Honda from using quality bearings in their motorcycles?

[Ryanme17]

CitizenOfDreams, on Dec 24 2008, 11:12 PM, said:

Ball bearings use balls. Regular roller bearings use cylindrical rollers. Tapered bearings use rollers that look like truncated cones.

Got it, thanks!

[jsalty]

gr8vfr, on Dec 24 2008, 01:44 PM, said:

If you're getting 10K out of tires...

I am guessing that you never heard of Gobbler, Istachatta an Ozello.

I mostly use the VFR as my commuter, however I do find the time to hit up Istachatta Road, Gobbler Drive and Ozello Trail (Ozello is way too sandy anymore) but not as often as I would like, However i do hit Turkey Oak twice a day (not as tight in the turns but still a bit twisty). Ozello I can hit if i go to Pecks for Lunch or something but its mostly out of my way, Gobble is a weekend or Friday night kind of road (sleepy hollow). Istachatta is a favorite and I was just down it yesterday.

[BaileyRock]

magicman, on Dec 24 2008, 01:59 PM, said:

Hey, I've got just over 27,000KM on my Pilot Road front . It is worn evenly, and just at/below the wear bars in the center.

(27,000KM = 16,777Miles )

And I'll definitely be getting another PR or PR2 for the front

Pilot Roads Suck!!! Try a Pilot Road 2 next tire and you'll never go back, better in every way and 10 times the tire the original Road was.
PS I would never run an original Road again.