[Adam30]

As i had posted a few months back, while my '02 was in for the recall i had them install a new set of the Road Smarts for me, trying to avoid the price of the new Pilot Roads. Ive been through 2 sets of the last gen PR's, and was always satisfied with them. My last set went about 7000 miles on the rear, and the front couldve done 10k miles or probably more, with both front and rear always wearing smooth and uniformly. However, both of the front PR's always gave me a bit of tire noise at times though, even when brand new, which i figured out was the tire after i rode on the new dunlops....and the noise went away. Not an objectionable noise though, just something i noticed.

But this week, I rode out to Colorado and returned last night which is about 1200 miles for me each way, and did about 1000 miles in the mountains while there. Ive had the tires on for a few hundred miles before the trip. Ever since I bought them, I liked the turn in and reduced noise of the dunlops. Not doing a whole lot of twisty road riding before the trip, i couldnt really speak for their grip too much yet. But, after the 3-4k miles of this week, the problem that I had been afraid of with this tire came up, as it has with my other dunlops.....front tire cupping. The middle area of the tire tread is literaly appearing to look raised up, about an inch wide, with unevenly worn parts on either side of this "ridge". granted, most of the tires mileage was freeway so i would expect wear in the center of the tire, but i dont feel that explains this. And this unusual wear has started some noticable front tire noise as well now, whereas before the trip they were silent. My previous two sets of PR's never wore like this, and they saw just as many freeway miles. I check tire pressure almost daily, and ran the front at about 35 and rear at about 41. This was partially the reason i was skeptical about purchasing Dunlops this time around, after having countless issues with cupping on my Dunlop 208's that I had on my RC51. But everything looked so promising on the road smart, and the price was great. Any ideas on this issue or thoughts would be appreciated. I should mention that before the trip, i raised the forks about 5mm, and never had any headshake and still dont.

The rear however has been a different story. As it is a dual compound, there still is noticable center wear from all the highway mileage....i dont think you can ever get away from that. But I do believe this is less center wear than i remember my PR's showing after similar highway mileage. Granted i havent actually taken a tread depth measurement, but the rear appears to be worn about 60% id say in the center (the area with the least amount of tread left). So for a rear tire, the mileage lifespan seems to be satisfactory so far. But keep in mind that most of this tire's use has been freeway riding, 70-90 mph.

So basically, lol, ive been satisfied with the rear....but not so much with the front. Any thoughts are appreciated.

[skuuter trash]

Dunlop/ Bridgestones.....I always cup the fronts.....even the cruiser tires do it, so it's a "company tire problem" not isolated to just their sport bike tires....... ... Only Dunlop I've ever owned with any amount of miles with no front cupping is on my Gold Wing right now......7000 with no cupping. If they can engineer special "Gold Wing Only" tires that last like this, the same engineering should trickle down.............

I have much better luck with Michelins on my sport bikes............

[Adam30]

I agree....Ive had a couple friends who have had dunlops (VTR1000, SV650), and have watched them go through the same thing, not to mention the 220's my dad keeps getting talked into putting on his '96 VFR. Im kind of finished with dunlop; after my pilot roads I said i'd stick with michelin, but the price i got on the roadsmarts was too attractive at $236 for the set from my dealer, compared to not being able to get the PR2's at all at that time, not to mention their cost.

[marid2apterbilt]

With all the "my dunflops cupped" threads ive read I will never have another set no matter how attractive the Price.. OK well maybe if there free... The ones that came stock on my 06 started cupping at 2500 miles (D204's)

Got 3 sets of Pirelli's waiting to go on when these PP's are gone..

[Adam30]

Yeah, the price is what got me with the roadsmarts. After researching the tire beforehand (granted without hearing any real world, long term reviews), I was silly to think that maybe this new tire would be a different, improved animal. I think in many ways it is, but not in the cupping department obviously....

[txlongrider]

I too am running a set of Roadsmart tires on my 06 with a little over 3000 mi on them. I have experienced no cupping on the front. The rear seems to wear a little more than I would have expected with the dual compound. The turn-in and the straight line stability is better than any tire I have ever used. In the wet the front feels a little vague and less planted than other tires but I haven't experieced any slippage in turns or under hard braking. I'm impressed with this tire and will definately replace them with the same.

[V4 Rosso]

Adam30, on Jun 2 2008, 04:42 AM, said:

The middle area of the tire tread is literaly appearing to look raised up, about an inch wide, with unevenly worn parts on either side of this "ridge".

Do yo have a pic of the front tire, as that doesn't sound like cupping to me, more like way to low tire pressure. Did you ever check your pressure gauge against another to verify if it is still OK?

[HiDesertMLB]

I'm curious about the Roadsmarts myself. Any other 3k+ experiences? I like the Bridgestone BT021's, but the Roadsmarts seems to be aggressively priced. More long-term experiences out there?

[Yosh70]

I installed a set of BT021's last year.....after returning from a trip to the Black Hills, the bike wanted to "fall" into the turn. Although I suspected it, I didnt really go over the tire to see if that was the problem.
But this spring, I decided to get a PR2 installed onto the front and with the original BT021 rear, now its like its on rails!

Well, ok, an Elka shock and Racetech springs may have helped the matter. But the bike steers the way it should now.

And for those that want to save a few bucks on probably the most important items on your bike, 99% of the time, you get what you pay for.

[intercept this]

I don't want to save a few bucks, I have to save $!!

[Adam30]

I will take a pic of the tire sometime this weekend. I wouldnt necessarily classify it as cupping either, but its the only description I could vaguely give. And btw, tire pressures since the tires were installed have been kept right at the stock Honda specified pressures, around 35/41. The only thing I can think of is this being the result of the all-slab riding I did from Milwaukee to Colorado, and back. Its about 1200 miles each way. I would obviously expect the center area to wear somewhat flat after all of that freeway riding, but not in the fashion that it has. However, this IS supposed to be a sport/touring tire...so I dont feel that highway riding should cause this much of an issue with abnormal wear.

It is a shame like I said; I did really like the tires before this wear thing happened; they handled well, were quiet, and the wear on the rear was pretty satisfactory so far. And the price of $236 for the pair from my dealer had me pleased as well. I was hoping Id finally found a Dunlop that wouldnt have funny front wear characterisitics. After taking it out the other night after not really being on the bike since i returned from CO, it was very apparent that the handling quality has really started to suffer.

By the way, i just called the dealer to get the exact mileage on when they were installed. I have exactly 4100 miles on the tires since they were put on, and roughly 2500 of those were straight slab, 70-80 mph.

I'll take and post a pic as soon as I can...

[TimC]

Thanks for writing that review, Adam.

I'm wary of Dunlops and Bridgestones b/c of front tire cupping issues, too. I was hoping the RoadSmarts would be different. Oh well. Plenty of other great tires out there, even if most of them are more expensive.

On a related note, my Conti Sport Attack front is cupping. I noticed it a couple weeks ago and now when I'm doing (an indicated) 90 mph the front end shakes. Not uncontrollably, but it's a good thing I don't go that fast very often! I even checked my rim to make sure the balancing weights were still on there. (They are.)

It's perplexing since the Road Attack I had on the front last year never cupped. Again, no biggie - lots of other good skins available, including a new set of Diablos waiting in my garage right now.

[Adam30]

Yep, I felt the same way when i heard about the new RoadSmarts....hoping they'd be different from the previous Dunlops Ive had and others I know have had. Besides this wear issue I do like them alot. But all highway miles or not, I just dont see any reason why the front tire did this, and to this extent. My pilot roads saw nearly the same highway mileage, and the front had 7k miles and couldve gone another 3k, and wasnt showing any signs of the odd wear like this one has.

I think its Michelins for me from now on, and I hear the PR2's are dropping in price a bit and have heard nothing but awesome things about them thus far. I might dabble with the Avons too soon.

[TimC]

TimC, on Jun 13 2008, 12:33 PM, said:

...my Conti Sport Attack front is cupping. I noticed it a couple weeks ago and now when I'm doing (an indicated) 90 mph the front end shakes. Not uncontrollably, but it's a good thing I don't go that fast very often! I even checked my rim to make sure the balancing weights were still on there. (They are.)

Update: Here's what I found Saturday afternoon - my tires had too much air in them. I went to check both tires prior to a ride to Toledo and found the front tire had 50 psi in it. My stupid bicycle tire pump gauge is not accurate, which I found out when I gauged the tires Sat. and both gauges showed the same pressures.

I took both tires' pressures down to normal levels and slabbed it to Toledo and back. Most of the shaking is gone and I expect the front tire cupping will not get any worse.

Chalk this one up to too much trust in my tire pump's gauge. I will be double- and triple-checking my psi's from now on.

Bottom line - I don't think the front tire's cupping is the tire's fault. Just too much air in the tires. I should've checked it sooner.

Sorry to piggyback on the Dunlop thread again, but I wanted to share this info.

[Adam30]

Hey that's ok....its good info either way...

Unfortunately, i wish my concern wiht the dunlop was a tire pressure related issue in my case...i just dont think it is this time. I'd check pressures before every time I'd ride while on my trip, and the only slight adjusting I had to do was when i was up in altitude, but only by a couple lbs. Even while at home here, i do anally check pressures each time i ride.

But, I did snap some pictures yesterday while I was out touring our flooded areas of the state, lol. I was waiting to get some sunlight in the right spot so the funny wear would show up in a pic. i'll be posting those in the next couple hours....

[Adam30]

Here's some pics of the tire in question...........
Dunlop Roadsmart after highway use


Dunlop Roadsmart after highway use


I can understand and expect after about 3500 miles of freeway use that there could be a flat area worn in the middle, but this seems excessive.....especially for a sport/"touring" tire. The fact that it's also "raised up" from the rest of the tire is strange too...

This post has been edited by Adam30: 17 June 2008 - 09:31 AM

[Vecky5]

WOW!?

I don't think I've ever seen a tire that looked like that. I wonder if you contacted Dunlop if they would do anything for you? I don't think that is normal wear.

[Adam30]

I just emailed the pics to my dealer where I bought them, as the set they sold me was the first set they've sold. Not to complain to them, but just for their info....

Maybe from there something could be forwarded to Dunlop if they see fit.

[ULEWZ]

I have a set on my ride and no cupping (didn't see any cupping in that picture). I have about 1000 miles on them and will be heading out to the grand canyon from Cali on Saturday. I will post up how the tires hold up. So far I like them. Not too bad in the twisties on my way home from work, and no flat spots just yet. I found that my tires use to cup because I would not unload the front in a turn, just let off the gas, which puts undo pressure up front. Now I make sure I give it a little bit of gas to unload the front end. Just a thought.

[Adam30]

Yeah, i was hesitant to call this condition i have "cupping" too, but didnt know how else to describe it. The only part you could say is cupped is in a couple areas on the edge of that ridge if you look hard enough. Either way, it isnt right.

[mello dude]

I had 5500 miles on the front with a Dunlop 208 and no cupping. I put on a Qualifier to replace it.

Hey - any tire wear comparisons of stock suspension vs upgraded?

MD

[Adam30]

Well, as i stated earlier I forwarded those pictures to my dealer, as they were interested to see them and i wasnt able to get the bike up to them for them to physically look at. They gave me a call just now and said they want the tire back, and will work something out as far as getting me into a new tire. Probably another RoadSmart, but im going to see if they can maybe credit it towards a set of PR2's. We'll see....but it was nice of them to outright say that it clearly wasnt right and that they want me to get a new tire. As well, i would expect most dealers to give me excuses about riding style, braking, tire pressure...blah blah blah when it comes to a wear issue like this. There was none of that, which these days is impressive.

Update: The just called back after forwarding the pics to their supplier, saying to stop riding on it immediately because its clearly a case of belt separation and is considered a defect. They'll have a fresh tire for me on friday free of charge.

This post has been edited by Adam30: 18 June 2008 - 02:06 PM

[Beck]

What I'm getting from this discussion where it's being brought up that there is definitely a difference between tire brands when it comes to resistance to cupping. Is that because of a particulat way companies like Dunlop designs their tire carcasses and the way they typically flex in hard cornering and braking?? or is it more of a rubber compound design thing??
BTW, I've been always staying with Dunlops with my bikes and through the years they all cupped very badly, specially the fronts. I'm planning to get Pilot Roads very soon to avoid this next time.

Beck
95 VFR

[Adam30]

There seems to be a million different assumptions on causes of tire cupping. Low/high air pressure, hard braking, etc. These could all be true, but the consensus seems to be that Dunlops seem to, on average, cup more often than other makes, particularly Michelin. THis has been my experience as well. But i should point out, that my case here with the Roadsmart is turning out to be a belt separation issue which makes the tire a defect, so im no longer assuming that this wear condition is just another Dunlop abnormal wear issue. I'll have the replacement friday and then take note of how the new one wears.

But we dont know what causes certain tires to cup more than others. Noticing that most cupping tires coincidentally happen to be dunlops, we have to assume that it's just something with their design. But, its hard to say exactly what.

[BaileyRock]

mello dude, on Jun 17 2008, 03:05 PM, said:

I had 5500 miles on the front with a Dunlop 208 and no cupping. I put on a Qualifier to replace it.

Hey - any tire wear comparisons of stock suspension vs upgraded?

MD

MD,
Hope you don't have the same experience as I had with the front Qualifier, after 1500 miles it felt so aweful that I tossed it right in the trash! POS IMO!
Maybe it was just another defective Dunlop?

I've done a full suspension upgrade of both valving & springs and noticed no gain in tire wear over 30,000 plus miles of testing!

BR

[Adam30]

Well, the new tire will be here friday, and hopefully i'll have it put on early next week at the latest.

It actually makes me feel better that this is a defect, and not just how i should expect the Roadsmart to handle freeway miles. Every tire manufacturer has its defects, so im gonna take it easy on dunlop for now.....I did love the tires until this popped up. I'll get the replacement and see how it does over the course of some more mileage. Any signs of poor wear or cupping....it's back to Michelin; i'll pay the extra money from now on, thank you.

[BaileyRock]

I bet it was your misaligned velocity stacks that caused the tire to go bad!
Don't tell Dunlop or they might not cover it!

[Adam30]

LOL, LOL....

Yes....the stacks being in the wrong spots caused uneven weight distribution to the front.....thats why they want the taller ones in back; they're more towards the center of the bike.

Ahhh....I knew id figure it out!

Yep, Honda sure is precise with their engineering and wieght placement.

[Adam30]

Well, on friday the dealer called saying my replacement tire was in, and that they're covering it under warranty as they feel that it is a separation issue, after seeing the pics. But upon dropping the wheel off saturday morning, I dealt with a different guy in the service dept, who says "well that's obviously a tire pressure issue....i dont see how they're going to warranty that." Since I was waiting for the tire pressure B.S. excuse to come up at some point from somebody, I immediately made it known that the pressure was kept at spec, as I check pressures almost every time I ride. His answer was then, "well you're gauge is probably off....I see that all the time." Now, beginning to get upset, i stated how at my business I have three different digital pressure gauges and they all indicate roughly the same pressures compared to each other; I use them every day, and that all three of them must be off then.

We went back and forth, with me ultimately just saying "listen....you tell me the pressure that you fill the tire to when you mount the new one, and i'll take it directly back to the shop and check it with my gauge so we can see how "far off" mine is.

Well, if mine is off then his is too, since he told me he filled it to 36 lbs, and mine read 36.2.

On a more positive note though, after mounting the fresh tire, I did take the bike out for about a 700 mile ride for the rest of the weekend, with part of the miles being highway and the other half twisties. The bike felt right again, and I still like these tires as far as handling goes. Granted it was only 700 miles so far, but the front is showing no signs at all of poor wear. Hopefully it was just a defect, because other than the wear issue of the last one, Id like to buy these tires again especially considering the price.

We'll see....

[ULEWZ]

I just got back from the grand canyon run an have about 2500 miles on them, and no cupping. So far I am happy with these tires. Not much twisty riding to speak of, but loads and loads of boring highway mileage. I am amazed at the very slight flattening in the center when considering how much freeway riding they had on them. I will update when this tire is toast.