[schmumble]

JES_VFR, on Jun 7 2008, 10:12 PM, said:

Furnace testII.

Time 16:25 EST

Ambient temp on bike's ambient temp sensor - 105 F.
Ambient temp according to stick on 'instant' read thermometer - 108F.
Humidity was very high.

It took the bike all of 10 seconds to register a 100 temp and about a three minutes to hit 180.
For the first time ever I pulled out of the lot at work with the bike fully up to temp.
Ripping over the bridge and carving the exit ramps at 60+ speeds brought the temp up to 200, where it stayed until I stopped three blocks from home. The temp shot up to 228, before the fan could be heard to engage, where it stayed until I got moving again. Then in the couple of blocks to get home (and at a speed of roughly 30mph, the temp dropped to 210. It shot up to 228 again as I pulled up to the garage and manually opened the door. I backed the bike in with out the temp dropping. The temp of the bike very slowly came down to about 224, but then in the heat of the garage it did not drop futher.
I again checked both the ambient thermometers and got readings of 111F and 112F. At that point I turned on the big fan I have in the garage to move air and opened the back window. After several minutes, the sweat on my arms and face started to cool and the temp of the bike started to fall. It dropped to about 215 then started to climb right back up to 224.
I watched this cycle about three times in 25 minutes and finally realized that I better get out of my gear and cool off.
Anyway, I think that the bike fan is working great as long as the ambient air can cool. When it was in the mostly closed space of the garage, it rapidly staturated the mostly stagnant air in the building and therefore was unable to further cool the system down.

So again I think was a great mod.

In them mean time I have to replace one of the window air conditioners now as it died today in the noon heat.

having owned a 99vfr and a 03 rc51.....jes...i have to agree with you 100% on the fix....5th gen vfr's run on the hottttt side....specially when the temp get's in the 90's...the rc was a oven in those temp's....i did the same fix on the rc51 and the heat problem was resolved perfectly! im amazed at how many people will argue or disagree with a fix that works as well as this one....i only wish people would be more open minded....this was the response's i got when i posted your fix on the rc51 web site.....unreal!

http://www.speedzilla.com/forums/rc51-tech...html#post483597

my vfr overheated twice and the rc at least 5 times....after the fix the rc never overheated again...and the temp always stayed below 225.

[y2kvfr]

John:

Any indication that the plastic is deforming or becoming pliable with the fan pushing? At this point I think that would be the only thing keeping me from doing the mod!

[JES_VFR]

y2kvfr, on Jun 9 2008, 06:48 AM, said:

John:

Any indication that the plastic is deforming or becoming pliable with the fan pushing? At this point I think that would be the only thing keeping me from doing the mod!

No the plastic is fine on the left side.
For what it is worth, I have held my hand down in front of the outlet when the fan is running. There is plenty of heat coming out, I mean I would not want to have to hold my hand there for an extended time, but it is not near burning temps.

I have not had time to borrow my buddies infared temp gun to take some measurements, but will soon.

[mello dude]

y2kvfr, on Jun 9 2008, 07:48 AM, said:

John:

Any indication that the plastic is deforming or becoming pliable with the fan pushing? At this point I think that would be the only thing keeping me from doing the mod!

You could look at it as that the normal mode of operation when the bike is moving down the road, the air pushing through the front and out the sides of the radiators is the same as the blow out fan?

Just a thought..

MD

[forrer13]

Has anybody tried this on a 6th gen yet?
is it the same RC51 fan that I would need?
Bike Bandit lists the 2001 VFR fan as part number 67875 and the 2002 VFR fan as part # 1470439
Please help because I would realy like to try this mod on my 02.

[Maddog Hoek]

I'm suspecting that you'll have to flip the blade and reverse the polarity for a 6th Gen. I don't have time now but maybe I'll try within the next couple of weeks.

[JES_VFR]

Maddog Hoek, on Jun 12 2008, 08:08 AM, said:

I'm suspecting that you'll have to flip the blade and reverse the polarity for a 6th Gen. I don't have time now but maybe I'll try within the next couple of weeks.

You don't have to do any of that. Flipping the fan blade won't help the direction the air flows, it will still flow the same way. Reversing the polarity of the motor would change the direction, but even Dc motors like the ones used in the fan's are designed to turn only one way best.

I know that there are two VFR owners right now about to try the VTR fan blade. One has his his bike at the dealership I work at waiting for Honda to cough up a recall wiring harness. The other one is a regular on another forum and will let me know in the next couple of days how it works out for him.

I think they are both going to find success, but I'm going to be cautious and wait to see.

[forrer13]

I think I am going to take the $23 gamble and be 6th gen guinea pig #3
I will let you know how it goes

[Twox48]

forrer13, on Jun 13 2008, 08:38 PM, said:

I think I am going to take the $23 gamble and be 6th gen guinea pig #3
I will let you know how it goes

Anxious to hear how it goes... my 6th gen runs warm in the 5-30 mph speeds... I'm guessing a fan working WITH the natural wind direction would be much more effcient than trying to fight it as Honda designed it... but then again, I'm no engineer!

[Auspañol]

I've ordered the helix at my local dealer's over here in southeastern Spain. we have had unseasonably cool weather up until this week. Last night at around 20.00 hours (it's daylight until 22.30) I was forced to ride through satellite townships of my (smallish) city, which has undergone rapid expansion. On the outskirts you can find yourself traversing one small town after another with no gaps, loads of traffic lights and only one lane per direction.

The bike rapidly got up to 106ºC and the fan kicks in, entering into that vicious cycle whereby the fan's effectiveness is nullified by the natural airflow created by the forward movement of the bike. I spent half an hour "boiling my eggs" and worried that the electrical system was suffering (heat is it's enemy). My R/R kicked the bucket two summers ago under identical circumstances.

On arriving at my destination, I left the bike running to see if it was capable of refrigerating the system whilst stopped (no antagonistic airflow). No way José... it stayed at 104ºC, it did not rise, but it did not drop. The fan was on for what seemed like an eternity and eventually cut out WITHOUT having dropped the temp to 96ºC which is when the thermoswitch is designed to cut it out. I guess that is a safety mechanism, designed to save the battery... I hope I didn't blow a fuse.

I no longer give a stuff, I am willing to try the experiment... from what we've seen so far it certainly doesn't appear to be any worse at least. I'm willing to risk the paint peeling or the plastic deforming... I doubt very much that will happen as while your riding, hot air is being forced through from the inside out anyway, and besides, the front and rear edge of the radiators are sizzling hot and physically in extremely close proximity to the fairing...

Stay tuned for the results...

This post has been edited by Auspañol: 14 June 2008 - 05:16 AM

[JES_VFR]

UPDATE

The fan fits the 6th gen's also.
Mother Honda finally delivered the wiring harness for a local VFR owners wiring harness recall, so we got the bike in and on the lift.

to quote the tech "it fit as good or better than that screwed up original fan" (gee, can you tell he doesn't think much of the suck in honda fan designs!!!).

Anyway the bike has been cycled a couple of times in the heat soaked and mostly still air of the one shop bay, so we know that it works.
I was hoping to get a shot at test riding it but we were to busy.

So there you have it folks.
The VTR fan works on Vtec bikes too!!!!!.

[Maddog Hoek]

Looks like I've got a new project, Thanks for looking out!

[onedowneaster]

Hello all; I am a new guy to the forum, Yes my 2000 VFR has a tendency to run toasty. I read about
the fan blade modification in another forum and quickly called my dealer and ordered
one.Just picked it up yesterday and havent had a chance to install it. But I have been
noodleing
about the modification for a week or two and in every scenario that comes to mind I
believe the blade that pulls air out of the engine compartment and thru the radiator is
a superior design than the sucker blade. I believe one of the biggest advantages of
the puller blade would be in slow traffic with the fan motor on. In this situation the air flow
and fan are working against each other. Anyway most of this has already been said in the
previous replies,but guess I am just trying to get my feet wet. eddie

[JES_VFR]

onedowneaster, on Jun 19 2008, 09:28 PM, said:

Hello all; I am a new guy to the forum, Yes my 2000 VFR has a tendency to run toasty. I read about the fan blade modification in another forum and quickly called my dealer and ordered one.Just picked it up yesterday and havent had a chance to install it. But I have been noodling about the modification for a week or two and in every scenario that comes to mind I believe the blade that pulls air out of the engine compartment and thru the radiator is a superior design than the sucker blade. I believe one of the biggest advantages of the puller blade would be in slow traffic with the fan motor on. In this situation the air flow and fan are working against each other. Anyway most of this has already been said in the previous replies,but guess I am just trying to get my feet wet. eddie

Yeah that's pretty much the problem right there.
Install the new blade and be happy.

[vfrvern]

I've been corresponding with Jes on this issue on the STN forum and wanted to share my findings with you regarding this fan mod for the 6th gen model VFR's

Well, I just got back from a great road test with with the VFR post fan modification.

I rode in many different situations with the temps ranging from 70 degrees all the way up to 106 degrees. EEK! I even had the opportunity to compare notes with a friend who rides an 07 model.

In the morning the temp was in the low 70's when I put the bike on the interstate. As expected there were no issues and the coolant temp maintained 190 or so at 85mph.

I met up with my friend at 7:30 and we traded VFR's, he was riding my 04 and I was riding his 07. As we made our way up Palomar Mountain the air temp was around 78 degrees. Before long his temp was in the low 220's and his fan kicked in at which point his temps rose rather quickly up to 234 and remained with the fan running for the rest of the climb. My friend reported to me that the temp on my 04 hit 225 and held constant with the fan running.

After switching back to my bike I did some further testing up and down the mountain. I discovered that in a situation when the bike is under a load the fan is unable to get the temp down low enough to turn off. However,the fan is able to maintain the temp in the 215 225 range (depending on the load) as opposed to getting into the 230's such as my friends' 07 and higher (240s) as seen previously on my bike.

At idle with the temps above 90 degrees the fan can hold the temp around 215 - 218 but it was unable to get the temp down low enough to shut off. However, once under way under normal riding conditions the temps dropped 210 or so and the fan remained off.

On my way home I saw a high of 106 on the interstate and decided to push the bike hard by running 90+. At those speeds the temps rose to 223 and the fan engaged. Once again the fan could not cool sufficiently to turn off but It did maintain the temps at a range of 218-221 consistently. This is where I had my most severe problem with the temps creeping into the 240 range. Also, I observed that when getting within 100 feet of another vehicle that the temp rose slightly but once back into the air stream it would fall back into the same levels.

Finally, In traffic at speeds up to 50mph with temps in the mid 90's the VFR ran consistently in the 209-213 range with the fan OFF. At a traffic light or in slow heavy traffic the temp would quickly spike to 222 and the fan would kick in slowly reducing the temp to 218 or so. But once moving at around 20 mph the temp dropped steadily down to 210 and the fan could disengage. In the past the fan would not have had enough time before the light changed to cool down below it's cutoff point. Once under way it was stuck on and the temps hovered around 220's in traffic. The only way it would shut off is if I were to pull over and wait for a few minutes but that was useless because the temp would climb back to 222 at the next stop anyway. Hmm... Let's see, Fan off bike runs cooler, Fan on Bike runs hotter.... Makes sense to me Headscratch....

I ran the VFR under some of the most demanding conditions that most people will likely see and it performed much better than it ever has. The highest temp it ever got to was 225, hot but tolerable. I am now comfortable taking the bike out on my upcoming 3800 mile journey through the 4 corners states. I can also go on record to say that this mod seems to work better than the stock setup for the 6th gen model VFR.

Jes,

Thanks once again for your detective work figuring out that a VTR fan blade is compatible with the VFR fans.

Oh yeah, I forgot to mention that after the fan had been running for about 5 minutes while the bike sat on the driveway the bike (especially the clutch) was pretty hot to the touch as hot air works it's way up between the side fairing and the gas tank. However it was no big deal as it cooled off quickly once the bike was in motion.

This might be one of the reasons that Honda designed the fan to pull inward.

[adamf18]

I just did this mod too. I does work rather well. My bike stayed pretty low in temp. Never went above 220. And it was 95 degree's out. Plus I do use water wetter in the bike too. A cheap mod and improves air flow. Highly recomended.

[JES_VFR]

vfrvern, on Jun 22 2008, 05:42 PM, said:

I've been corresponding with Jes on this issue on the STN forum and wanted to share my findings with you regarding this fan mod for the 6th gen model VFR's

<.....>
After switching back to my bike I did some further testing up and down the mountain. I discovered that in a situation when the bike is under a load the fan is unable to get the temp down low enough to turn off. However,the fan is able to maintain the temp in the 215 225 range (depending on the load) as opposed to getting into the 230's such as my friends' 07 and higher (240s) as seen previously on my bike.

At idle with the temps above 90 degrees the fan can hold the temp around 215 - 218 but it was unable to get the temp down low enough to shut off. However, once under way under normal riding conditions the temps dropped 210 or so and the fan remained off.

On my way home I saw a high of 106 on the interstate and decided to push the bike hard by running 90+. At those speeds the temps rose to 223 and the fan engaged. Once again the fan could not cool sufficiently to turn off but It did maintain the temps at a range of 218-221 consistently. This is where I had my most severe problem with the temps creeping into the 240 range. Also, I observed that when getting within 100 feet of another vehicle that the temp rose slightly but once back into the air stream it would fall back into the same levels.

Finally, In traffic at speeds up to 50mph with temps in the mid 90's the VFR ran consistently in the 209-213 range with the fan OFF. At a traffic light or in slow heavy traffic the temp would quickly spike to 222 and the fan would kick in slowly reducing the temp to 218 or so. But once moving at around 20 mph the temp dropped steadily down to 210 and the fan could disengage. In the past the fan would not have had enough time before the light changed to cool down below it's cutoff point. Once under way it was stuck on and the temps hovered around 220's in traffic. The only way it would shut off is if I were to pull over and wait for a few minutes but that was useless because the temp would climb back to 222 at the next stop anyway. Hmm... Let's see, Fan off bike runs cooler, Fan on Bike runs hotter.... Makes sense to me Headscratch....

I ran the VFR under some of the most demanding conditions that most people will likely see and it performed much better than it ever has. The highest temp it ever got to was 225, hot but tolerable. I am now comfortable taking the bike out on my upcoming 3800 mile journey through the 4 corners states. I can also go on record to say that this mod seems to work better than the stock setup for the 6th gen model VFR.

Jes,

Thanks once again for your detective work figuring out that a VTR fan blade is compatible with the VFR fans.

Oh yeah, I forgot to mention that after the fan had been running for about 5 minutes while the bike sat on the driveway the bike (especially the clutch) was pretty hot to the touch as hot air works it's way up between the side fairing and the gas tank. However it was no big deal as it cooled off quickly once the bike was in motion.

This might be one of the reasons that Honda designed the fan to pull inward.

You, and everyone else are welcome.
As far as the fan not being able to cool below a certain point under load and/or ambient conditions, I have seen that as well (and reported it). However these were conditions that prior to my changing the blade would have had the bike up in the 240 range and me searching for a way out.

I have been looking at more ways to cool the VFR and have a few ideas, but as Vern points out, the heat has to go somewhere and unfortunately its going to have to pass close to you guys the riders. And by that I mean either out the left side and past your leg or up along the left side near your clutch hand, or out the back under the naughty bits.

That is just the facts when it comes to riding in the summer heat, the engine heat has to go somewhere?

So until I get the next step sorted out, try and stay cool

[forrer13]

So, just out of curiosity, what is the next step? Bigger radiators? thermo switch that turns the fan on sooner? Addition of a second fan on the right radiator? or a manual fan on/off switch?
Enquiring minds want to know....

PS my new fan is on order, should arrive late this week.

This post has been edited by forrer13: 23 June 2008 - 09:44 AM

[Chev]

I am truely amazed at the temperatures that you are all seeing. But, I have yet to see the highway, at rushhour, in the scortching heat. Hell, it's not even 80 here yet.

forrer13, on Jun 23 2008, 09:43 AM, said:

So, just out of curiosity, what is the next step? Bigger radiators? thermo switch that turns the fan on sooner? Addition of a second fan on the right radiator? or a manual fan on/off switch?
Enquiring minds want to know....

I would suggest a fan on the right side. In fact I would go so far as to suggest a computer fan on the right side. They are small, lightweight and move a good amount of air. I would wire in a manual switch controled but keep it controlled by the other fan. In the heat of the summer, turn the switch on, and when the temps drop back to liveable, turn it off.

I hear that 6th gen rads are bigger, but you are looking at a big expense there as well as some possible machine work. Just move the air past the heat exchangers faster.

[forrer13]

http://cgi.ebay.com/25-Nidec-Beta-V-12-Vol...1QQcmdZViewItem

I am thinking about mounting one of these to the inside of the other radiator. Hard wire to the battery through a simple fuse and toggle switch. Its only .11 amp so no relay would be needed.
When I install the new fan I will look at this for clearance.
Has anyone tried this before? Mayby I will make a DIY.

[onedowneaster]

Howdy Forrer 13; That little fan only pulls 10 CFM, I am not sure that would make a difference. I know
Radio Shack has a couple 12 volt fans and one is considerably larger than your 10
cfm unit, that may be a better option. Anyway I am not trying to supress your
creativity.

[forrer13]

Does anyone know how many CFM the OE fan pulls?

I pulled two fans from an old computer I have at home and was going to hook them both up together, they are about 4" square each. I should be able to attach them with some zip ties through the radiator fins.

The previous owner installed heated grips on my bike, which I have never used, and probably never will, so I was thinking about using the heated grip switch to manually turn on and off the computer fans. Plus there is already power run to that switch.

So my thought is riding around, bike reaches 200 F, turn on computer fans. One of two things will happen. Bike will stay around 200 F and drop off when I start moving. Or temp will continue to climb to the point at which the factory fan will switch on.

This is gonna be a fun project, and should be totally reversible if it doesnt work.

This post has been edited by forrer13: 24 June 2008 - 08:00 AM

[mello dude]

forrer13, on Jun 23 2008, 10:43 AM, said:

So, just out of curiosity, what is the next step? Bigger radiators? thermo switch that turns the fan on sooner? Addition of a second fan on the right radiator? or a manual fan on/off switch?
Enquiring minds want to know....

PS my new fan is on order, should arrive late this week.

I went to my dealer to order the SH fan and they say they are on back order. Meaning no way can they tell when I would get one if I ordered.

Just curiuos - how many of us jumped out and ordered one? New demand - new shortage?

MD

[TX_CLG]

mello dude, on Jun 24 2008, 08:50 AM, said:

forrer13, on Jun 23 2008, 10:43 AM, said:

So, just out of curiosity, what is the next step? Bigger radiators? thermo switch that turns the fan on sooner? Addition of a second fan on the right radiator? or a manual fan on/off switch?
Enquiring minds want to know....

PS my new fan is on order, should arrive late this week.

I went to my dealer to order the SH fan and they say they are on back order. Meaning no way can they tell when I would get one if I ordered.

Just curiuos - how many of us jumped out and ordered one? New demand - new shortage?

MD

Order one after I hit 249 on a run a few weeks ago. Also burped the system which seems to have helped a lot. Still hitting over 230 very often.

[Stumpthumper]

I'm pretty comfortable with my bike temps (I only ride with it set to ambient, and ignorance is bliss on this issue for most), but I was thinking of a small/computer fan to assist in exhausting the engine compartment with the stock sucker fan....somewhere other than at the rads. It seems to me the aerodynamic design comes into play with the rads and does somewhat different things at different speeds, so why not vent some of the hot air out another direction? It's just a thought and I may tinker with it.

[forrer13]

I think blowing the air out through the other (unused radiator) is the way to go. After all the radiator is a heat exchanger, and a heat exchanger works much better with air blowing through it as opposed to just sitting there in stagnant air. Simple physics, no?

[JES_VFR]

forrer13, on Jun 23 2008, 09:43 AM, said:

So, just out of curiosity, what is the next step? Bigger radiators? thermo switch that turns the fan on sooner? Addition of a second fan on the right radiator? or a manual fan on/off switch?
Enquiring minds want to know....

PS my new fan is on order, should arrive late this week.

Lets see the next step could involve anyone (or all of the following).

1 a second pusher fan moving air out the right side rad.
2 a set of ducts that will keep the heat from the headers and the engine block from 'pre-heating' the cooling air that get flows through the rads.
3 more efficient non honda fan blade.
4 a special ambient temperature sensitive black box to alter the engagement temp of the left fan.
5 custom radiators.

ps do not forget the locktite in the gluestick form for the nut.

[Auspañol]

JES_VFR, on Jun 25 2008, 05:55 AM, said:

forrer13, on Jun 23 2008, 09:43 AM, said:

So, just out of curiosity, what is the next step? Bigger radiators? thermo switch that turns the fan on sooner? Addition of a second fan on the right radiator? or a manual fan on/off switch?
Enquiring minds want to know....

PS my new fan is on order, should arrive late this week.

Lets see the next step could involve anyone (or all of the following).

1 a second pusher fan moving air out the right side rad.
2 a set of ducts that will keep the heat from the headers and the engine block from 'pre-heating' the cooling air that get flows through the rads.
3 more efficient non honda fan blade.
4 a special ambient temperature sensitive black box to alter the engagement temp of the left fan.
5 custom radiators.

ps do not forget the locktite in the gluestick form for the nut.

I prefer Gold Bond^TM for my nuts... no seriously, are you referring to the nut holding the fan blade on?

The problema with a second fan on the inside of the right-hand radiator is there is very little room in there, due to the eccentric positioning of the motor in the chassis... There is just a very squeezy bit of room for a 10 cm PC style fan on the forward lower corner of said radiator. Otherwise, you could do like a friend of mine and zip-tie two PC fans on the plastic mesh on the outside of the radiator. I did the same but noticed no difference whatsoever as a PC fan doesn't create much more airflow than a human fart. In the end I removed them as the mechanical benefits did not outweigh the eyesore factor... in the end I removed bothe black plastic meshes as mines a silver VFR and I like the way she looks more w/o them... I hope that doesn't cause any problems... they don't hold anything together do they? I figured they were just for protecting the delicate radiator fins.



So, anyways, I now am the proud owner of a VTR fan blade, my question is... can you post up step-by-step instructions on how to install... I'm wondering if there are any shortcuts, or ways to avoid bleeding the coolant... any special things I should keep in mind besides the loctite?

Thanks a million in advance...

[Auspañol]

combine pilot, on Apr 23 2008, 07:05 PM, said:

I don't read shematics well so this is not a knock Tightwad. Just simpfied.
I set up my switch as a closed ground (-) SoThe fan is switched on as a ground loop so no positive wire is required.My fan is swiched on manualy and or by the thermo couple.
This way I can't forget to turn it on. It also shuts off with the key if left on.
David

Please explain how I can do this... but, explain for electronical idiots if you would be so kind...

[Davidlong]

combine pilot, on Apr 23 2008, 07:05 PM, said:

I don't read shematics well so this is not a knock Tightwad. Just simpfied.
I set up my switch as a closed ground (-) SoThe fan is switched on as a ground loop so no positive wire is required.My fan is swiched on manualy and or by the thermo couple.
This way I can't forget to turn it on. It also shuts off with the key if left on.
David

Hi CP; could you send us any photos, pleaseeeee?

This post has been edited by Davidlong: 06 July 2008 - 11:50 AM