Steve G:
I think there is probably a difference in opinion of just "which" parts are doing "what" in the power curve.
Not trying to "stir" any pot here, but let's see if we can seperate out some of the parts of the equation, comparing how you see performance gains to the VFR from your post, and how we see performance gains for the VFR from our side of the equation.
Quote
It is my understanding the Motard header is a direct factory replacement and offers no performance increase over the stock header? If true this would keep me from purchasing one unless my stock header was damaged.
First off, all of our comments are OUR opinion, and are not meant to "dis" any other company, but are comments on the overall aspects of the question which has been asked of us here.
There are two aspects to the question here, the downpipes/collector and the conn tube and muffler. They are two very different parts of the performance equation, and we think you are confusing which one is most responsible for the gain.
Let's start by saying what we see as the "fact" of the matter:
No aftermarket downpipe/collector we have ever seen is making better overall power then the stock version. In fact, given a thousand reasons of engine design, space constraints and cost, the bigger success for any aftermarket version is when they don't
LOSE any power to stock.
A "true" performance system that is worthy of spending money on is one which loses NOTHING, anywhere, and of course gains in useful places the customer wants. This is balanced against cost, since somebody could design a header which would beat the stock system, but if it cost $8000, you might balk at the price.
In our world, what you are seeing on these "race" systems is a gain in performance from the open core canister design, the opening up of the stock downpipe/collector sections with a straight through muffler design. This is where the performance gain is coming from, and we seriously doubt (have not tested them all but would be willing to bet a bottle of good Scotch) that it has anything to do with a "special" downpipe/collector design.
We admit we have probably not seen every dyno graph ever, but all the graphs we have seen of the "performance" VFR full systems on the stock bike show a header system which is actually losing HP thru the low, mid and high mid sections of the curve
compared to a good race slip-on on the stock header, with some miniscule gains at redline. All of which means you are actually probably going slower for a ton of extra money spent.
In fact, we might suggest NOT buying a "race" header, but instead putting that money into suspension or such which would not only keep you from going slower, but actually help you go faster!
The VFR was NEVER designed as a race motor. It's strengths are in its very linear torque curve, the almost flat but never ending spread of power that makes the bike so easy to ride, and in many cases, ride fast! That all comes from engine design, so unless you intend to drop in lots of very expensive motor upgrades, adding a big race system will only get you massive losses to the torque curve because the motor simply cannot carry the exhaust design.
The motor of the VFR, each and every part of the assembled engine, have been focused by Honda to the broad strength of its midrange, which is why it has won so many Best Of" awards over the years. It is why editors with 1000's of bike on their riding resume pick the VFR. It works, everywhere, all the time, with the least amount of stress or effort.
Thus, anyone who tries to build a header for top end is only going to "steal" HP from the fat part of the curve to add a few on peak. And each 5 you lose in the middle for 1 on top makes for a less useable power curve, one which is getting more and more focused on redline. Hardly a worthy trade off in any performance aspect for what the machine is, and what it is intended for.
Not to say that is not what "you" want, that is the fun of motorcycles, you can build anything your heart and checkbook desire!
Quote
If Motard produced a performance version (copy of the "Brand whoever" system) I bet you couldn't build them fast enoungh! I would definately buy one. Is this a future possibility?
If you mean adding a race slip-on, we already do, that is the BEST performance for the best invested cost you could do for your VFR.
If you are comparing the actual performance of our downpipe/collector design to somebody else's downpipe/collector design, we know we are already good, and doubt anyone is better.
For all the reasons noted above, we don't think there is a "race downpipe/collector" product capable of being produced so that anyone would be willing to purchase it. To actually achieve a better overall header then Honda on this machine would leave anyone with a ton of R&D costs and a huge retail price (giving no sales volume or profit), which all adds up to a very bad way to stay in business!
The Motad system is designed for customers who wish to replace a broken, worn out or damaged stock unit at a very good price; a system with all the quality, features and performance of the unbeatable stock header. In its designed respect, it is one of the finest products you could ever place on your machine and one which has received nothing but the strongest compliments from any and all who have used it.
Steve Larson
This post has been edited by Steve Larson: 22 December 2006 - 10:12 AM
Help
MultiQuote
